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Thinking of starting a second army, Thousand sons/Daemons.
Does anyone run Magnus and Ahriman in a list at the moment and if so do they have any good advice for me?
I really like a lot of the chaos range and am not sure where to start but Ideally would like a Supreme command of DP's Ahriman and Magnus. I'm just not sure what how to make the rest of the list work.
You can see Ahriman in almost every competitive Chaos list. A default SuperCo detc of TSons is Ahriman and two talon-DPs.
Fewer and fewer lists have Magnus today. If a shooty opponent is prepared to fight a knight, usually he could also delete Magnus in one turn.
Magnus is a bullet magnet. Your opponent has to kill him T1, if he does the rest of your army escapes unscathed. If he doesnt you will cause a lot of trouble with him, cast warptime on him, -1 to hit, +1 to inv. Move him twice, charge, and kill his units.
I'm not seeing anything on Her Datasheet or the FAQ.
No, she never had a fixed WL trait. None of the Exalted Greater Daemons do. How do you plan on using her in your list?
My Daemon tactics are always 'run at it, shouting'. The only question is which group what goes in. Zarakynel gets Celerity and goes with the Seekers and Fiends. Someone yesterday whined that she's not allowed Celerity, but they couldn't support it. Out of an abundance of caution, I asked here.
I don't think I will ever run Zarakynel as Zarakynel again, to be honest. She's 396pts more expensive than Shalaxi and doesn't come anywhere near to justifying the extra expense.
timetowaste85 wrote: If you wanna run Magnus, it seems you either need to use him as the distraction Carnifex or run multiple big guns.
Is there a good way to do that.
Build a list with plenty of bodies and have Magnus as a kind of expendable missile to throw at the enemy?
Or am I going to Find that losing nearly 1/4 of my army turn 1 is too hard to come back from?
Depends on the ruleset. A handful of top 100-200 chaos lists had both magnus, mortarion at the last LVO. These lists used fewer drops to leverage the +1 roll for advantage but whenever the lists would go second typically playing hard from behind. I'm not a huge fan of these coinflip lists even with the 63/37 First turn split - but they might do better now that castellans have been relegated to the competitive dumpster for the most part.
Ah the bash bros. I’d be open to running both but I was wondering if running just Magnus was viable. I think I’m going to have to start small and work out my playstyle first. Maybe use some proxies before I buy
I posted that I’m building the army of Magnus, Morty and a Kytan, backed up by Flawless Host marines led my two blender-princes. Five big, scary targets that can shred anything they get close to. I’d say something like that; offer up a bunch of scary targets, expect to lose any one of them, and have the others crump face.
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My Bash Bros list is Magnus, Morty, a LoC with impossible robe for big guys. Then a skullreaver DP, bloodletter bomb, and plague drones for strikers. A PB blob and some nurglings with a herald round out the board control. Dominates the psychic phase and is quite effective but very unforgiving of mistakes, especially in movement.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/05/06 14:14:40
buddha wrote: My Bash Bros list is Magnus, Morty, a LoC with impossible robe for big guys. Then a skullreaver DP, bloodletter bomb, and plague drones for strikers. A PB blob and some nurglings with a herald round out the board control. Dominates the psychic phase and is quite effective but very unforgiving of mistakes, especially in movement.
may i ask usually what army lists you face and average player level? that is important to understand if the list is really competitive or not
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buddha wrote: My Bash Bros list is Magnus, Morty, a LoC with impossible robe for big guys. Then a skullreaver DP, bloodletter bomb, and plague drones for strikers. A PB blob and some nurglings with a herald round out the board control. Dominates the psychic phase and is quite effective but very unforgiving of mistakes, especially in movement.
may i ask usually what army lists you face and average player level? that is important to understand if the list is really competitive or not
I'm in the northeast with some of the best local tournaments and tournament players in the country so whatever the meta hotness is what I'm usually against. At best I'm an okayish player but the list works, it's usually just my poor piloting that dooms it.
how it perform against a guard+3 Ik's for example, suppose you use ITC format
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/06 19:19:41
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blackmage wrote: how it perform against a guard+3 Ik's for example, suppose you use ITC format
Almost always ITC. Didn't play the normal meta list at last event but I played pre-faq multi-knights and it did okay. Biggest problem was Morty getting punked by the paragon gauntlet (freaking things doing 8dmg a pop) but that's aside. Morty is a missile and it's shot by Magnus (warptime) who usually supports next turn. The LoC is mostly a fire magnet but can do some serious work when paired with the DP and/or the letters. The plague drones are some of the best mobile bullet sponges in the game for screening things like the DP or just camping an objective. PBs are amazing at board control but I happily admit I'm poor at the movement phase and charge blocking. The list works as it forces an opponent to react to you which is why it also so skill dependant on the player. Orks were the hardest as they just have so many wounds to chew through and if against SAG can start losing your big guys before they can do much.
buddha wrote: My Bash Bros list is Magnus, Morty, a LoC with impossible robe for big guys. Then a skullreaver DP, bloodletter bomb, and plague drones for strikers. A PB blob and some nurglings with a herald round out the board control. Dominates the psychic phase and is quite effective but very unforgiving of mistakes, especially in movement.
that list sounds so much fun to play
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/06 19:57:17
i played morty+magnus list only 1 time, but i used a TS battalion with 24x2 tzaangors a TSdp Ahrimann and ts sorcerer, i used then to summon about 20 pink horrors, but natural list nemesis was IG+castellan unless IG player isn't skilled. Your list seems stronger but still unsure how it can perform against a good piloted IG list
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/06 20:47:35
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blackmage wrote: i played morty+magnus list only 1 time, but i used a TS battalion with 24x2 tzaangors a TSdp Ahrimann and ts sorcerer, i used then to summon about 20 pink horrors, but natural list nemesis was IG+castellan unless IG player isn't skilled. Your list seems stronger but still unsure how it can perform against a good piloted IG list
I think the TS version you posted can be stronger than demons but I like the toolbox approach and demons fit that need better.
IG, itself, is not a problem for the list. You can bad touch and lock vehicle heavy lists and with all the fly (especially post-faq) you can get past screens. The usual ogryn blob melts to mortal wounds. The soup version though, ya, problematic. I'm now less afraid of the single castellan but smash captains are still a huge problem in combination. Not unsolvable though as such list are also weaker to heavy pressure on a line and you can overload for sure. All academic, of course, and I'm curious what the new meta list will look like post-faq and if castellan's have finally moved to the point inefficient realm which would really open up bash Bros.
point enough to summon 20 pink horrors 1st or 2nd turn depend by need,
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/06 21:30:02
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Just an FYI there were a handful of morty / mag lists in LVO top 100 (5-1 or 4-2) this past year - it works but seems to be a coinflip on who gets first turn when against castellan etc.
orkswubwub wrote: Just an FYI there were a handful of morty / mag lists in LVO top 100 (5-1 or 4-2) this past year - it works but seems to be a coinflip on who gets first turn when against castellan etc.
that's why i asked about IG+IK that's the worst matchup, now maybe castellans are gone but you will face couple of crusaders and/or gallant, not a great matchup anyway
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point enough to summon 20 pink horrors 1st or 2nd turn depend by need,
I’m new to chaos, can you explain the benefit to leaving pinks for summoning rather than bringing them in? Is it to act as a mid game screen/ obj grabber?
I think the idea is to summon them in both to avoid paying CPs to Deep Strike them and to keep the excellent Thousand Sons Legion Trait, which would be broken if you included the Horrors in the army list.
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point enough to summon 20 pink horrors 1st or 2nd turn depend by need,
I’m new to chaos, can you explain the benefit to leaving pinks for summoning rather than bringing them in? Is it to act as a mid game screen/ obj grabber?
He has no detachment to bring them in as battleforged. That's all there is to it really.
point enough to summon 20 pink horrors 1st or 2nd turn depend by need,
I’m new to chaos, can you explain the benefit to leaving pinks for summoning rather than bringing them in? Is it to act as a mid game screen/ obj grabber?
i dont want break legions traits and wont pay cp ( i have only 9) to DS them, now i can summon 1st turn if needed so more or less like have them on the table. dont move sorcerer and summon them at 12" should be enough to get them in range of something
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/07 12:04:57
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point enough to summon 20 pink horrors 1st or 2nd turn depend by need,
I’m new to chaos, can you explain the benefit to leaving pinks for summoning rather than bringing them in? Is it to act as a mid game screen/ obj grabber?
i dont want break legions traits and wont pay cp ( i have only 9) to DS them, now i can summon 1st turn if needed so more or less like have them on the table. dont move sorcerer and summon them at 12" should be enough to get them in range of something
This also means they get extra reach of Advancing without having to actually Advance, which keeps their accuracy up, and will shoot at full strength when you go second. I have to admit, the new rules for reserves might have made Summoning at the very least a viable gimmick.
I’ve been musing over a Tzeentch Daemons Supreme Command in a Word Bearers Daemonkin list - a Daemonspark Flying Herald, Blue Scribes for headology, and Changeling for Oblit & Possessed 6+++. Master of Possession advances & uses Incursion to Summon a pink horde, Herald supercharges their & the Oblits’ shooting.
195 points is expensive but based on experiance from 4th/5th edition from 3d6 psychic tests vs Eldar the anti fallback ability is going to be really strong.
Magnus isn't completely horrible, but he isn't that great either (especially in a competitive setting). You need to support him with a psyker who can keep up (like Ahriman) so you can leverage his mortal wounds vs him casting trying to protect himself. The Changeling is useful in this respect too.
In a competitive setting, don't forget to bring flamers of some sort as every Imperium player who set aside 85 points for the stratagem is going to throw a Culexus Assassin at you.
I play:
40K: Daemons, Tau
AoS: Blades of Khorne, Disciples of Tzeentch
Warmachine: Convergence of Cyriss
Infinity: Haqqislam, Tohaa
Malifaux: Bayou
Star Wars Legion: Republic & Separatists
MESBG: Far Harad, Misty Mountains
14000
15000
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