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question is, can you do this with a Demon Prince as well or only with the big stuff

 buddha wrote:

 TonyH122 wrote:

 grouchoben wrote:
Woooooow an amazing guide to Daemons in 9e competitive play has just dropped, written by Wallace O’Donnell who placed 1st in faction last ITC season. Here's a link to his 45pg PDF, reading it now, it's amazing.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/15ZDVlyHgLEWM-jxNIvJ7jnqGp4dGwZOZ/view

Saw that; it's pretty great! What is this Daemon Monster Mash list that they keep talking about? I assume it's the reason they put all of the GD as A's, although I shudder to think how many you need before they are A's. I'm only rocking two GUOs.

Monster mash is GD spam with 4-6 based on the list you want to run. KoS and LoC are the two best GDs but you can make bloodthirsters and GUOs work as well depending on what you want to run. All GDs are exalted of course.

You take the 4-6 GDs, fill out the rest in troops and basically get to tell your opponent "deal with it if you can"

I own all those models but I'm new to 40k 9th edition (haven't played since end of 7th) what detachments do you run that list? Batallion + Patrol or double Batallion.

Thanks in advance

So it depends on if you are trying to run a mono-detachment or undivided. Undivided let's you take smaller detachments cause you can mix and match easier. Mono gives you the loci though so you'll want to cram it in as much as possible so battalion will suit you better.

My current list, posted in the army list section, is a battalion and a patrol.

GD list seems sexy on paper but i'm concerned about giving up easy secondaries - for example both assassinate and abhor the witch against tau being that there is literally not much else to shoot in most of those lists and the game is now all about points.

On the flip side - being that nurglings are now the (secret/not so secret) best troop in the game taking 6 is basically automatic (or summoning) so a batallion led by two GD is looking spicy.

I'm currently looking at two LOC with the standard durability build as basically a base battalion in all my chaos builds so far...

Why summon murglings rather than just bringing them as part of the list? Don;t you have to give up doing anything on your character when you summon? Nurglings can deploy like scouts so you don't need to summon them in, right?

I think units of 5 to 6 Nurglings are going to be great for tying up and closing lanes during deployment.

Blast doesn't affect units of 5 and even more than 5 isn't really scorched that hard by Blast. 5++/5+++ and 4 wounds means they will be hard to shift for most weapons. Obviously multiwound weapons hurt but i'd much rather have my opponents shooting plasma and melta at my Nurglings than at my drones or other similar multi-wound models.

Beasts of Nurgle seem an alright choice for mono-Nurgle.

I'm leaning toward a Nurgle/Tzeentch battalion with a Slaanesh patrol. EGUO, Loc (of Fateweaver), and 2 KoS sound pretty juicy.

just a thought but if you are facing an enemy planning on using the VP generating spell or successfully manifest warp powers for VP the Blue Scribes could heavily if not completely neuter it with their ability (permenantly prevent enemy from casting failed spells) at the very least they could become a very disproportionate distraction carnifex for 90 pts

Trying to make a psi action is not the same as manifesting a psi power. I dont think the blue scribes can syphon that psi action and prevent it for the rest of the game. This would need a FAQ to answer.

Yeah, I agree with p5freak's assessment. That being said, if it does turn out that it's workable, the exalted trait Spell-thief would work better IMO.

The other thing of interest is that abilities like Souls of Iron (deny power on 4+) don't appear to work on Psychic Actions. In addition, abilities that allow a unit to deny like a psyker without being a psyker (quite a few factions have these) can't prevent the actions. So it becomes a considerably more reliable way to get VP when you are against those opponents.

Quick question, can we summon units in the 1st turn playing Grand Tournament?

Has anyone done the mathhammer for GD vs eradicators? Assuming eradicators are in an impulsor that gives (roughly) at 31 inch threat range with melta rerolls. I don't think a high level SM player will jam all eradiactors into one transport but in a 'worst case' scenario it wouldn't be impossible to get all 9 eradicators in range of melta with the standard marine rerolls to hit and 1's to wound... Particularly as greater deamon threat range is very short (even 18 inches for LoC) it looks like mathematically against any GD non-GUO at least 2 GD are dying on average even with 3 up invul etc. GUO is about 1 and half and GUO doesn't benefit from obscuring terrain etc...

I guess there are other solutions (summoning in flamers and using 1cp for mortals etc.) but the standard counter of trying to wrap the transport doesn't work really and even then the impulsor adds -2 to the charge, which makes the eradicators themselves more challenging to charge... I'm struggling as I really want to field my GD this edition (love the models) but as I only play opponents who run tournament level competitive WH - even with all our cool exalted buffs i'm wondering if its again time to relegate these to the shelf, at least until deamon codex 2.0 rolls out... Even 'kick back' after they fire one salvo will lead at best to a 1:1 point trade, and that isn't considering the other 1500 points in the SM list that may have varying line of sight but would still need to worry about (aggressors etc.).

A good sample list is Alex Harrison's:
https://www.40kstats.com/vanguardseries

Any suggestions? I'm not the best player but i'm having hard time figuring out how to bubble out a 14 inch assault transport (deploys troops after it moves) that then gives infantry keyword models an additional 5 inch move with further 12 (24) inch threat range... Not really trying to paint a hopeless picture for the matchup - might be playable with other unit variants (nurglings etc. sitting on objectives) but does it make any sense to bring GD?

Eradicators can't get in Impulsors, they have gravis armor.

Awesome, thanks! Wasn't sure as I'm not a SM player - this helps a lot with positioning and my understanding of the unit.

Another thing regarding secondaries that I noticed, just to be on the lookout for:

In order to deny a psychic secondary action, the enemy has to pick a PSYKER unit. So if your opponent has a relic/trait/strat that lets them deny, the enemy unit can't use it on your action since they aren't a PSYKER.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
Another thing regarding secondaries that I noticed, just to be on the lookout for:

In order to deny a psychic secondary action, the enemy has to pick a PSYKER unit. So if your opponent has a relic/trait/strat that lets them deny, the enemy unit can't use it on your action since they aren't a PSYKER.

That's a good catch. I think in any non-khorne list we have so many psyker HQs that psychic ritual is a really attractive secondary.

orkswubwub wrote:
it looks like mathematically against any GD non-GUO at least 2 GD are dying on average even with 3 up invul etc.

I don't think that's right dude. 9 Eradicators with CM & LT rerolls, shooting a 3++ big bird, outside of half range, are expecting to do around 14.5 damage total, and that's without aura of mutability or the Impossible Robe's single reroll, or a CP reroll. They're probably shooting at another GD instead of course, but I thought I'd point out that the LoC is up to the task of taking this most obnoxious AT on the nose and still living to squark about it.

So, i've got this crusade campaign coming and I was brave (stupid) enough to say that I would play with daemons... I've got no clue were to begin since i'm feeling I will get wiped...

As a house rule, no named carachters are allowed.

I already have some bloodletters, daemonettes, bloodcrushers and fiends lying around so I was thinking something aggro... but I realley would appreciate some insights on how to build a crusade list.

I don't know much about crusade, but in general pure melee, light infantry is in a rough spot in 9th edition since so much of the game now revolves around contesting the midfield. Light infantry melee armies like daemons or GSC tend to get shredded by rapid firing bolters.

Daemons players these days recommend bringing a lot of exalted greater daemons and a lot of nurglings (like 15+). Or consider bringing an allied detachment with actual guns. For example, I recently picked up a superheavy detachment of armiger moiraxes to make a slightly more threatening version of my fluffy Khorne daemons list.

When I get the time to try my new list and my first 9th Ed game with “new” stratagems from engine wars. Only hearing about objectives and I have all ways played a mix of killing and holding so I think I would love this Ed, except for new terrain rules not benefiting us Daemons...

I can’t recommend it yet but for my aggressive list I have 10 bloodchrushers with icon, banner and upgraded too blood banner in DS. Drop them in and use “brass stampede” stratagem for MW and charge a smaller unit, then charge a juicer target behind if your MW wipe the first charge.

For this too work better I have 2 units of havocs CSM for shooting and 20,10,10 cultists. You can use psychic powers too weakens the enemy.

I will also try too fit my beloved DP with Skullreaver relic and LoC exalted for some psychic MW with impossible robe for survival.

Anyone that have tried too use “brass stampede” and is it still active if you wipe the first unit and do MW on the second target? I think not as you activate it when you have made the charge but Spikey bit seems too think it works..

I haven't played it myself but I've seen it played. It works on paper and if your opponent is unprepared it can be devastating. But it has such a huge footprint. This means it's hard to actually DS especially if they have things like infiltrators or similar.

Only saw it once though so maybe other players have had more success.

I know it they have a huge footprint but I kinda like it that way. Then you can charge, kill and then charge another thing while holding an objective and be in the way of you opponent. I guess it’s a double edge sword. With 10 of them it’s 40W to remove and with +1 to invul (4++) they become a pain. In the a**.

I usually use some nurglings to take over midfield before first turn and then use Alpha legions forward operation to move up one or two units but with the nerf to negative modifiers I’m thinking of iron warriors instead.

Personally I think Tzeentch flamers is the best none melee unit in the codex and with 6s for MW even better then keep them alive with 3++ stratagem and/or another juicy target or two.

Will keep on building my list and try to fit all parts all together then post it in army list section if anyone want too see it.

Echoing what Buddha mentioned:
Brass stampede is strong but remember the strat only works if the actual model is within 1 inch of the enemy unit, so if you deepstrike 10 models they all have to be within 1 inch - and there is typically more terrain in 9th and further bloodcrushers aren't infantry so you can run into problems. This also hurts with multicharging because if you fail one charge you fail them all - so if there are a clump of units together you may only want to pick the closest.

Likely if you are using this unit don't get too fixated on trying to max all the mortals and just drop them in where there is the biggest bang for buck. Personally I'm more on the flamer side and trying to get those buffed to 5str with flickering flames to dent gravis armor... Also its nice that some of these units can be summoned whereas bloodcrushers more or less require the banner.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Why summon murglings rather than just bringing them as part of the list? Don;t you have to give up doing anything on your character when you summon? Nurglings can deploy like scouts so you don't need to summon them in, right?

You summon them in so as not to break your locus abilities in a mono detachment that isn't Nurgle.

 D6Damager wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Why summon murglings rather than just bringing them as part of the list? Don;t you have to give up doing anything on your character when you summon? Nurglings can deploy like scouts so you don't need to summon them in, right?

You summon them in so as not to break your locus abilities in a mono detachment that isn't Nurgle.

This isn't possible. A detachment that isn't Nurgle cannot summon Nurgle daemons, because you have to summon the keyword of your God unless you're undivided, which is basically Belakor... who breaks your detachment locus anyways.

That was an incredible read. We should do a 9th ed tactics and put that on page one.

Honestly, who cares enough about locus to pass up on obsec nurglings, who get scout deployment, and don't require an HQ to sit around for a turn doing their incantations?

 grouchoben wrote:
Honestly, who cares enough about locus to pass up on obsec nurglings, who get scout deployment, and don't require an HQ to sit around for a turn doing their incantations?

My mono slaanesh cares about locus

Did the Slaanesh Warscrolls in CA 2019 change in their PA or now 9th ed?

thanks kindly

popisdead wrote:
Did the Slaanesh Warscrolls in CA 2019 change in their PA or now 9th ed?

thanks kindly

Well, yes, then no, then yes, then no, then yes, then no, depending on which version of the FAQ you have.

The final tally for a Keeper of Secrets Datasheet is:
1) Datasheet came in box.
2) Box datasheet FAQ'd.
3) Chapter Approved Datasheet (different than box datasheet).
4) Chapter Approved Datasheet FAQ'd
5) Psychic Awakening Datasheet (changed from CA 2019)
6) PA 9th Edition FAQ Datasheet (goes back to post-FAQ CA2019 version)

 Unit1126PLL wrote:


...
5) Psychic Awakening Datasheet (changed from CA 2019)
...

Goodness, what a mess. I have CA 2019. I didn't get the PA for Daemons and haven't followed them too closely since. Well thanks kindly I guess i need some updated warscrolls somehow haha.

Thanks kindly