8th edition allies?

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**usmcmidn**

Maybe I am missing something but can you take allies in 8th?

If so can we go in detail with this? I would assume it will have to do with the key words but how?

**Aetare**

If two units share a keyword, like 'Imperium', they can be taken as part of the same detachment, essentially as allies.

**usmcmidn**

So I can have a space marine HQ and two guard squads in a single patrol detachment, for example? Same keywords same detachment?

Or is a detachment the whole army?

If not could I have my first example detachment And then have another detachment of let's say NIDS all in the same game fighting for the same cause?

**Galas**

You can mix units in a Detachment if every unit in the Detachment have at least 1 common Keyword. So you can have a space marine HQ with Astra Militarum Heavy Support, Adeptas Sororitas troops, because they all share the Imperium keyword.

In matched play you need minimun 1 common keyword in all of your army. So you can't ally Imperium and Tyranids in Matched play.

If you have more specific faction keywords you can have better sinergies because your army count as that:

For example, if every unit in your army has the Blood Angels faction keyword, your army is a Blood Angel army and can have all the special rules and stratagems (They don't exist yet) of the Blood Angels.

But if you mix Blood Angels and Space Wolves the next common keyword you have is "Adeptus Astartes"; so you army is a "Adeptus Astartes" army and you can't use Space Wolves or Blood Angels stratagems and other special things that can come in the future.

**usernamesareannoying**

...

**Breng77**

In matched play an army must be made up of units containing at least 1 faction keyword in common.

So allies right now are basically just for Imperium, Chaos(CSM, Daemons, Chaos Knights), and Eldar (Craftworld, Ynnari, Dark Eldar, Harlequins).

Other factions can sort of ally within themselves (different hive fleets, or ork clans) but not with other factions.

**Timeshadow**

Actually Tyranids have Genestealer cult and GSC can have both Guard and Tyranids included.

**ThePauliPrinciple**

Possibly you can make an all infantry army or all vehicle army from different factions? Won't get a lot of command points though

**Galas**

Timeshadow wrote:
Actually Tyranids have Genestealer cult and GSC can have both Guard and Tyranids included.

No. Genestealers Cultists can ally themselves with Tyranids OR they can use their special rule to have allied Imperial Guard Detachments and still count as a Genestealer Cult army.

But you can't have Tyranids, Genestealer Cults and Astra Militarum in the same army.

But you can have a genestealer corrupted Yarrick or Creed

I love it. It was the excuse to buy some Bullgryns! for my Genestealer Cult.

**carldooley**

Galas wrote:
Timeshadow wrote:
Actually Tyranids have Genestealer cult and GSC can have both Guard and Tyranids included.

No. Genestealers Cultists can ally themselves with Tyranids OR they can use their special rule to have allied Imperial Guard Detachments and still count as a Genestealer Cult army.

But you can't have Tyranids, Genestealer Cults and Astra Militarum in the same army.

But you can have a genestealer corrupted Yarrick or Creed

I love it. It was the excuse to buy some Bullgryns! for my Genestealer Cult.

Ya know, I was expecting this sort of thing in the transition from 6th to 7th. All I'm stuck with is a Culexus to go with my Tau, but what are people going to do with those riptide wings that they got as allies? Dump them, or acquire moar models so as to make a full army?

**Galas**

What is people gonna do with 4 Wraitknights? Learn that chasing the metagame comes at the expense of adjusting your army every time the mega changes.

The kind of people that bought a Riptide wing just to ally and form a TauDar are the ones that have 0 problems to sell them to buy the new hotness.

0 Emphaty for my part. Other cases or allies not being legal in 8th... you can always play narrative.

**G00fySmiley**

I am sad the allies matrix went away. I get that keywords mean that units can effect eachother. but my orks no longer get to function as freebooter mercenaries to say eldar guns. Or when the khorne demons attack the world with my orks the lootas can't chip in to help destroy the oomans. and join in the fun. i feel like given this imperium once again has an amazing array of models and roles to choose from while non eldar (and to an extent genesteeler cults) other xenos got the few options available taken away.

another example was my tau working with their human helper space marines to avoid a gunline and still play some tau bolstered by assault marines

**carldooley**

G00fySmiley wrote:
tau working with their human helper space marines to avoid a gunline and still play some tau bolstered by assault marines

well. . .
Use em as Vespid? Personally, I really detest the kroot model, and got some Shoota Boyz to use 'counts as'.

**G00fySmiley**

carldooley wrote:
G00fySmiley wrote:
tau working with their human helper space marines to avoid a gunline and still play some tau bolstered by assault marines

well. . .
Use em as Vespid? Personally, I really detest the kroot model, and got some Shoota Boyz to use 'counts as'.

a valid solution, but I am trying to rage over here

really i am just salty because I bought allied detachments of every army and not some must be fleshed out, sold, or shelved. i have about 1/4 of every demon army for example all 4 gods as well as CSM armires a few thousand sons, a few khorne chosen, some plague marines and some noise marines plus tzangors and about 100 cultists.

i could use them as a chaos united force i suppose i have yet to look into that yet.

**Galas**

Yeah. To me that sounds like a good Chaos army

**DarkStarSabre**

Pretty much the only 'ally' lists that go screwed over were...well...

Taudar and anything that involved Orks or Necrons. Which I'm fairly certain not a lot actually did.

Keywords make up for the rest.

Though word of warning - as mentioned, when we do get specific codexes and splatbooks their rules are likely to be very exclusive. AoS requires whole armies to be the same faction/sub-faction to benefit...

However the AdMech canticles specify 'detachment' over army so that might be a better indicator.

For the record, Fabius Bile is silly in any CSM army. Positiviely silly. Just the fact he can now buff more than one unit in a game, the buffs aren't that bad (chance of Strength, Toughness or Attacks) and the fact that it goes on the Infantry keyword - which means it now includes the Cult units, Terminators, Raptors, Warp Talons., Mutilators and Obliterators!

**Formerly Wu**

It should also be noted that many character buffs only apply to units that share their specific faction keyword. So even if you have a Space Marine captain leading some guardsmen, the guardsmen won't benefit from the captain's buff aura, because the captain's ability affects units with the same <Chapter>.

**Galas**

Yeah. Thats how you balance this:

You can have a broad army as Imperium or Chaos but have near to 0 sinergies, or you can have much more restricted subfactions and have better sinergies ,special rules etc...

The tricky point is to encounter the balance betweem making the subfaction-bonuses good enough to pay for the restrictions in the units you can choose, but not so good tha they become OP and make more generic armies useless again'st them.

**Audustum**

I used to run 3 Imperial Knights and 3 Riptides as a force. I'd converted the Riptides heavily using other Imperial Knight bits so they looked fully Imperial.

Sad I won't have much use for them. They'd look REALLY out of place with a Tau army and are illegal to go with their Knight buddies anymore. Maybe some events will do Narrative now and then.

Some things have keyword "Unaligned" (or at least it's mentioned in the rules). It'd probably be nice if "Unaligned" units could ally like "Imperium" or "Chaos". Then you'd be able to mix Orks, Necrons and Tau together.

**Rippy**

Sorry Audustum, but that is why I am glad that the allied matrix is gone, and keywords are in.
So we have more fluffy lists, rather than taking the best from a bunch of different factions that aren't friends and mashing them together.

**TheLumberJack**

More of a new question than an answer to the OP. Would you let an opponent bring a non traditional ally to the table if they had converted models, fluff, or both to back it up. For example running guard as tau auxilary unit, etc. Would you allow this or no?

**Audustum**

Rippy wrote:
Sorry Audustum, but that is why I am glad that the allied matrix is gone, and keywords are in.
So we have more fluffy lists, rather than taking the best from a bunch of different factions that aren't friends and mashing them together.

I was always a big fan of "Forging the Narrative", haha. I actually made a female Inquisitor model to accompany them and had it all worked out that she built them as a misguided Xenos Inquisitor. They use Grey Knight helms for heads and Imperial Knight legs and shoulders and even had Nemesis Banners and prayer books adorning them.

I wouldn't consider it a loss if I could still field them with a Tau army, but they'd look really out of place. Unless I made an entire Tau army that looked "Imperial". Not sure I'm up for that big a project though.

Still, there's Narrative and Open play so no one, including me, should get too distraught over a Matched restriction.

**G00fySmiley**

human helper riptide?

**Audustum**

G00fySmiley wrote:
human helper riptide?

Not to get too far off-topic, but would that be a travesty of Tau lore to have humans piloting Riptides?

**Galas**

I don't think a human should have problems piloting the Tau mechas. Only in the human-Tau size relation, but a small human,male or female, could enter without a problem.

TheLumberJack wrote:
More of a new question than an answer to the OP. Would you let an opponent bring a non traditional ally to the table if they had converted models, fluff, or both to back it up. For example running guard as tau auxilary unit, etc. Would you allow this or no?

In a narrative battle, sure. In a competitive battle, probably too, because I'm a filthy casual narrative player at heart

**Franarok**

Rippy wrote:
Sorry Audustum, but that is why I am glad that the allied matrix is gone, and keywords are in.
So we have more fluffy lists, rather than taking the best from a bunch of different factions that aren't friends and mashing them together.

That is true. but now you find that imperium is kinda op on the way he can take any unit. On 7th he also could, but at least needed take the minimum required and is limited by the max of units and such.

Now a imperium codex have 234928492785 different units to take and suply the weak points of "the army".

Meanwhile that if you are a xeno player you can eat your foot xD

Also that is giving to talk. For example, cultist are more expensive than a guardsmen. That could be ogic because are meatshields on a "space marine" army. Space marines could take imperial guards too, but then need pay the tax of the detachment and the HQ, also a limited number or IG lines.

But now any marine player can put all the guards units he wants. And they have way better weapon options than cultist, better armor, more leadership, more synergy, the option to the orders...and are cheaper. As I said, not a problem on 7th, but now is like a punch to non imperium players xDD

**G00fySmiley**

Audustum wrote:
G00fySmiley wrote:
human helper riptide?

Not to get too far off-topic, but would that be a travesty of Tau lore to have humans piloting Riptides?

they have a caste system but seem to view warriors from other cultures as equals and members of the fire caste so if one was a imperial knight pilot in the imperium and came over with his knight i see no reason they might not work on and augment it to their technologies if they believe the pilot to be loyal and fighting on their side.

if i recall correctly a human can even fight alongside the tau fire warriors in ranks with the blue fish people

**TheLumberJack**

Galas wrote:

TheLumberJack wrote:
More of a new question than an answer to the OP. Would you let an opponent bring a non traditional ally to the table if they had converted models, fluff, or both to back it up. For example running guard as tau auxilary unit, etc. Would you allow this or no?

In a narrative battle, sure. In a competitive battle, probably too, because I'm a filthy casual narrative player at heart

Yeah I would too, simply because I don't care enough to not let it happen

**Formerly Wu**

Franarok wrote:

Also that is giving to talk. For example, cultist are more expensive than a guardsmen. That could be ogic because are meatshields on a "space marine" army. Space marines could take imperial guards too, but then need pay the tax of the detachment and the HQ, also a limited number or IG lines.

But now any marine player can put all the guards units he wants. And they have way better weapon options than cultist, better armor, more leadership, more synergy, the option to the orders...and are cheaper. As I said, not a problem on 7th, but now is like a punch to non imperium players xDD

The Guard don't get any of that from allying with the space marines, though. The cultists *do* get synergy through their marks and keywords with CSM buffs.

**Franarok**

Will be bery strange that a chaos lord wil lbe on cultist instead with other better chaos marines units.

and on a plain comparison, the guards owned cultist because no reason. I mean, they are better on near everything, more or equal on atributes....and cheaper xD. Why? because reasons xD