Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

What about a lord with 2 claws? He has a 4+ invuln anyway. That's how I play him.

Don't switch your long fangs for a predator, it doesn't worth it. In your list there aren't any vehicles and even with the termies and the TWC that predator would attract all the anti tank in the opponent's list. If you want a bullet magnet in order to save multi wounds models ok, but long fangs are way more effective with this kind of list.

Have you faced any hordes oriented armies? Since you have no anti infantry shooting other than 15 bolters and a couple of frag missiles I'm just curious about that.

Don't forget that the Thunderwolves themselves contribute 30 S5 AP-1 attacks of their own in addition to what ever their riders are packing. That should help to take a bite out of horde lists.

I agree with you about the Long Fangs though. A couple of lascannon hits can really spoil a Predator's day but Fangs will probably just lose the Pack Leader and 1 gunner. My Long Fangs have lost more models to overheating plasma cannons than enemy firepower since the start of 8th.

Anyone have any idea how the new points from Codex Space Marine work? Do we get to use the cheaper Predators and Power Fists from the C:SM or are we still using the Index points?

 Karhedron wrote:
Don't forget that the Thunderwolves themselves contribute 30 S5 AP-1 attacks of their own in addition to what ever their riders are packing. That should help to take a bite out of horde lists.

Yeah, I agree about that, I tipycally bring 7-10 TWC too, including the lord. But even with WG with stormbolters and 2-3 twin assault cannons sometimes strong hordes are tough to kill. Conscripts overwatch is insane for example, and if you face them (concrete possibility in 8th edtion) you'd absolutely need to reduce their number by shooting them before getting into assault. Orks green tides with 180+ boyz buffed by ork characters are tough too if you mostly rely on close combat.

The 4+ invulnerable save on the wolf lord has made me consider dropping the shield and going dual claw, but I just can't bring myself to do it.

I've not faced a true horde army with the list yet (mainly because I'm the only one in my group that owns one). My hope would be the toughness of the wolves combined with a strong save would weather the attacks. I've yet to put this into practice though.

The predator is actually going in there for more survivability. My long fangs just don'd tend to see past turn one and for slightly less points I can replace them with a model that does roughly the same fire power, has more wounds, higher toughness and the same save...plus as mentioned. It'll draw heavy fire.

Kingzerno wrote:
The 4+ invulnerable save on the wolf lord has made me consider dropping the shield and going dual claw, but I just can't bring myself to do it.

I've not faced a true horde army with the list yet (mainly because I'm the only one in my group that owns one). My hope would be the toughness of the wolves combined with a strong save would weather the attacks. I've yet to put this into practice though.

The predator is actually going in there for more survivability. My long fangs just don'd tend to see past turn one and for slightly less points I can replace them with a model that does roughly the same fire power, has more wounds, higher toughness and the same save...plus as mentioned. It'll draw heavy fire.

Your opponents have 3 units of TWC coming to eat them yet they choose to kill your Long Fangs first? Strange.

I imagine that they shoot things like heavy bolters and assault cannons at the long fangs, and multi-wound guns at the TWC. That would be the most efficient thing to do, anyway, and you don't really want to ignore las cannons if you don't have to.

That being said I don't see the predator lasting much longer, but it will at least soak up a few D6 damage shots the TWC won't have to take.

The list looks fun as there are a lot of threats coming at the enemy pretty fast, but it is unfortunate you have so many drops, and probably go second most games. I wonder if you could find room for a couple rhinos for things to start the game in to minimize the drop count?

 Weazel wrote:
Anyone have any idea how the new points from Codex Space Marine work? Do we get to use the cheaper Predators and Power Fists from the C:SM or are we still using the Index points?

"We" Space Wolves players use the Index for everything except Primaris stuff which has a pdf thing with updated point costs and unit sizes. This is spelled out in the codex itself in specific language.

That's some awesome results.
I'd be interested to hear how that list goes against hoard lists like Guard, Hellspawn and Nids.
Funny how you can almost count SoB as a hoard list recently.

jcd386 wrote:
I imagine that they shoot things like heavy bolters and assault cannons at the long fangs, and multi-wound guns at the TWC. That would be the most efficient thing to do, anyway, and you don't really want to ignore las cannons if you don't have to.

That being said I don't see the predator lasting much longer, but it will at least soak up a few D6 damage shots the TWC won't have to take.

The list looks fun as there are a lot of threats coming at the enemy pretty fast, but it is unfortunate you have so many drops, and probably go second most games. I wonder if you could find room for a couple rhinos for things to start the game in to minimize the drop count?

If I shoehorn a rhino in it means losing something. With that something probably being a terminator squad or the long fangs/predator.

The high drop count is a little annoying, but if my opponent moves forwards it means a potential turn one charge.

 Weazel wrote:

Kingzerno wrote:
The 4+ invulnerable save on the wolf lord has made me consider dropping the shield and going dual claw, but I just can't bring myself to do it.

I've not faced a true horde army with the list yet (mainly because I'm the only one in my group that owns one). My hope would be the toughness of the wolves combined with a strong save would weather the attacks. I've yet to put this into practice though.

The predator is actually going in there for more survivability. My long fangs just don'd tend to see past turn one and for slightly less points I can replace them with a model that does roughly the same fire power, has more wounds, higher toughness and the same save...plus as mentioned. It'll draw heavy fire.

Your opponents have 3 units of TWC coming to eat them yet they choose to kill your Long Fangs first? Strange.

TWC aren't S10 pseudo monsters that Wulfen boost fourty two inches anymore, they move ten inches.
Sounds like most of this dude's opponents just aren't paniced by them because they aren't what they were in 7th.

ryzouken wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
Anyone have any idea how the new points from Codex Space Marine work? Do we get to use the cheaper Predators and Power Fists from the C:SM or are we still using the Index points?

"We" Space Wolves players use the Index for everything except Primaris stuff which has a pdf thing with updated point costs and unit sizes. This is spelled out in the codex itself in specific language.

I think you missed this article:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/22/the-other-angels-of-death-and-codex-space-marines/

Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves army lists in Index: Imperium 1 all let you use units from the Space Marines section of that book. If you own the new codex, you should feel free to use those same units’ Datasheets from that book instead, until your own codex comes out.

It doesn't mention anything about the points values for wargear but it seems clear to me that GW's intention is that the points values in the Codex override those in the Index seeing as the new Datasheets override the old ones.

In this older article there are a few hints:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

Can I choose to use the rules and/or points for units from my index instead of the new ones in the codex once released?
In your own games, if you and your opponent agree, you can, of course, play with whatever rules you like.

In all future publications and official events though, it will be assumed that you’re using the most recent rules and Datasheets. It will also be assumed that you’re using the most up to date points for matched play, in this case, those included in the codex.

This, to me, makes it clear that the points in the Codex override the points in the Index.

Dark Chief wrote:

ryzouken wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
Anyone have any idea how the new points from Codex Space Marine work? Do we get to use the cheaper Predators and Power Fists from the C:SM or are we still using the Index points?

"We" Space Wolves players use the Index for everything except Primaris stuff which has a pdf thing with updated point costs and unit sizes. This is spelled out in the codex itself in specific language.

I think you missed this article:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/22/the-other-angels-of-death-and-codex-space-marines/

Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves army lists in Index: Imperium 1 all let you use units from the Space Marines section of that book. If you own the new codex, you should feel free to use those same units’ Datasheets from that book instead, until your own codex comes out.

It doesn't mention anything about the points values for wargear but it seems clear to me that GW's intention is that the points values in the Codex override those in the Index seeing as the new Datasheets override the old ones.

In this older article there are a few hints:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

Can I choose to use the rules and/or points for units from my index instead of the new ones in the codex once released?
In your own games, if you and your opponent agree, you can, of course, play with whatever rules you like.

In all future publications and official events though, it will be assumed that you’re using the most recent rules and Datasheets. It will also be assumed that you’re using the most up to date points for matched play, in this case, those included in the codex.

This, to me, makes it clear that the points in the Codex override the points in the Index.

I would agree, since the wargear lists from the index are overridden by the ones from the codex, same as the unit datasheets. Point costs as well. This is good news for all of the non-vanilla Marines (SW, DA, BA, and DW), as we can still compete even though we are still waiting for our own shiny new codexes.

Oohhh eighteen point Powerfistin'...

Has anyone noticed that the new FAQs prevent TWC to be equipped with chainsword and storm shield? Since the storm shield can be taken only by replacing the chainsword and not the bolt pistol.

I hope it's going to be fixed soon, even the picture in the TWC box shows 2 out of 3 dudes with chainsword and storm shield!!

 Blackie wrote:
Has anyone noticed that the new FAQs prevent TWC to be equipped with chainsword and storm shield? Since the storm shield can be taken only by replacing the chainsword and not the bolt pistol.

I hope it's going to be fixed soon, even the picture in the TWC box shows 2 out of 3 dudes with chainsword and storm shield!!

The bolt pistol can be replaced by anb item from the melee weapon list, which has the chainsword on it.

Anybody think TWC Storm Shields will drop the Character tax?

Mantle of the Troll King: Add 1 to any (emphasis mine) saving throws you make for Harald Deathwolf against shooting attacks.

So wait, does he have 2++ against shooting?

That's the way I'd read it...

Yes, I believe that is correct.

Kingzerno wrote:
That's the way I'd read it...

That's pretty awesome. However I don't know how often you'd leave characters out in the open anyway. Although with Harald you can outflank and that pretty much leaves him in the open... Anyone used him? Seems kinda expensive even with his skills considered.

215 isn't particularly expensive for a Wolf Lord on a Thunderwolf with a shield, axe and 2++ save against shooting, makes him pretty damn flexible.
Harold was a MONSTER in 7th ed - No reason he can't be the bane of troops in 8th.

I think in order to get the best out of the outflank you'd have to have some units in reserve (ie deepstriking terminators).

Drop them in and then have him alongside them...

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
215 isn't particularly expensive for a Wolf Lord on a Thunderwolf with a shield, axe and 2++ save against shooting, makes him pretty damn flexible.
Harold was a MONSTER in 7th ed - No reason he can't be the bane of troops in 8th.

He is 188 in my index. So an even bigger steal then?

 Weazel wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
215 isn't particularly expensive for a Wolf Lord on a Thunderwolf with a shield, axe and 2++ save against shooting, makes him pretty damn flexible.
Harold was a MONSTER in 7th ed - No reason he can't be the bane of troops in 8th.

He is 188 in my index. So an even bigger steal then?

He is AWESOME. I love him, personally. I also run a lot Death Wolves and a decent chunk of TWC and Grey Hunters in razorbacks to keep in theme with the Death Wolves though so I'm a little partial.

Harald just destroyed Mephiston in our friendly match today. But he and his 2*3 man TWC (all hammer and SS) were just terrible against vehicles (Razorback and Cybot).

I miss a ccw with that extra punch. I am so afraid of Lascannons with their D6 dmg and even if I survive them and am able to fight in cc, it just feels bad. That sucks so much! XD

Looking for advice on a Lots-o-Dreads list.

Right now I am noodling around:

Vanguard

Bjorn
(Hellfrost or Las Cannons?)

3x Venerables with Blizzard Axe + Shield

3x Venerables with TL LC and ML (maybe a TL AC too)

Comes to just under 1200 pts, so lots of room to work at 2K

Or it could be a nasty 1500 list

Thoughts on what to add? Likely need some anti-horde since 3x ML is about all I have, if I take Hellfrost I can put out a solid amount of unfocused S6

Maybe Twolf cav or WG-Bikes wiht SBs?

I'm also a fan of TDAWG so possibly a deepstrike component would be good.

I definitely want to get a few Iron Priests in there, one on a Twolf to chase the Melee Dreads around and heal them up, maybe one on foot to chill back with Bjorn and the fire-base.

3 Axe/Shield dreads seems a bit excessive, especially since thye can only do damage in melee. If you really want melee-focussed, maybe switch one out for Murderfang.

Assault Cannons are better than Hellfrost for anti-horde I think. WG Bikers with storm bolters are probably hard to beat as horde-control in terms of value for points. You could simply get a couple of empty Twin assault cannon Razorbacks since you don't have to buy any infantry to ride in them.

 Weazel wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
215 isn't particularly expensive for a Wolf Lord on a Thunderwolf with a shield, axe and 2++ save against shooting, makes him pretty damn flexible.
Harold was a MONSTER in 7th ed - No reason he can't be the bane of troops in 8th.

He is 188 in my index. So an even bigger steal then?

Are weapons included in Named Characters costs?
It is possible that I've paying for a second Frost Axe and Storm Shield.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 Weazel wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
215 isn't particularly expensive for a Wolf Lord on a Thunderwolf with a shield, axe and 2++ save against shooting, makes him pretty damn flexible.
Harold was a MONSTER in 7th ed - No reason he can't be the bane of troops in 8th.

He is 188 in my index. So an even bigger steal then?

Are weapons included in Named Characters costs?
It is possible that I've paying for a second Frost Axe and Storm Shield.

Yes, named characters outside of Bjorn have wargear included in cost.