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Drake003 wrote:
Precedence anyone? Lol.

Be silly to argue that the exact same situation does not apply just because the Index name is not referenced in the FAQ.

The main issue it's how they answered it. Some of the answer for side questions from players from the index looks a bit half arsed and seems they didn't even bothered to check the datasheet to find the mistakes and fix them (not sure if they did on the Codex:space marines)

Seems odd that they didn't added an errata of sorts for those units like *this unit is equipped with XXX * like Autarchs,Hemlocks and Company champions while they bothered to make an errata to Horrify just to add *characteristic* behind leadership.


P.S: most of my issues with it it's that seems most of players must go *fishing* tru all the freaking FAQ and erratas they publish because you never know when the answer to XXX question on a side codex can suddenly change the way everyone else it's been doing things.

 Cream Tea wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Why no Starweavers and why 7man Troupe units? Footslogging isnt that good with quins in 8th.

Are we looking at the same list? Those are 5 man units, and they're riding Starweavers. 7 is the Power Level value.

My english is bad, sorry i thought the 7PL was the model count XD

And i saw the Starweavers I mean why not put them in the starweavers

fresus wrote:
The imperium 1 FAQ clarifies that a Company champion must pay for its combat shield. The issue for the champion is the same: the shield is listed as an ability, while it also exists as a piece of wargear with an associated cost. It also says that in all similar instances, you have to pay the points.
That's why most people agree that Hemlocks have to pay for stones, and Autarchs for shields. But some people argue that a ruling in the Imperium 1 FAQ doesn't apply to the Xenos 1 FAQ.

What on Earth!? I have to read an index errata for some armies I don't play to figure out what my army costs? RAW it's very clear that you don't pay for them as they're not wargear, they just happen to share a name with a piece of wargear.

Then you could argue that Wraithblades should pay for Forceshields whether they take them of not, since they have an ability called Forceshield (that only does something if they take Forceshields). Wth, GW!?

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Cream Tea wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Why no Starweavers and why 7man Troupe units? Footslogging isnt that good with quins in 8th.

Are we looking at the same list? Those are 5 man units, and they're riding Starweavers. 7 is the Power Level value.

My english is bad, sorry i thought the 7PL was the model count XD

And i saw the Starweavers I mean why not put them in the starweavers

If you read my list again, you'll see at the bottom I wrote :

Wave Serpent 1 = Warlock, Wraithblades
Wave Serpent 2 = Yvraine, Wraithguard
Starweaver 1 = Shadowseer, Troupe
Starweaver 2 = Troupe Master, Troupe


So as you can see, the Troupes are both in starweavers.

Niiru wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Cream Tea wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Why no Starweavers and why 7man Troupe units? Footslogging isnt that good with quins in 8th.

Are we looking at the same list? Those are 5 man units, and they're riding Starweavers. 7 is the Power Level value.

My english is bad, sorry i thought the 7PL was the model count XD

And i saw the Starweavers I mean why not put them in the starweavers

If you read my list again, you'll see at the bottom I wrote :

Wave Serpent 1 = Warlock, Wraithblades
Wave Serpent 2 = Yvraine, Wraithguard
Starweaver 1 = Shadowseer, Troupe
Starweaver 2 = Troupe Master, Troupe


So as you can see, the Troupes are both in starweavers.

I did read it again, i practice my english just for you when i posted my mistake

Drake003 wrote:
I'm pretty sure you do pay for the Spirit Stones. I actually made the mistake of not paying for them until it was pointed out to me on these forums. spirit Stones may be listed in the abilities but it is an upgrade payable just like any other you choose or have to take.

With regards the list, you Warlock really isn't doing much here. I would strongly urge upgrading him to a Farseer who is way better and brings Doom which is pretty clutch. You just need to free up 37 points after dropping the Warlock, giving your under already. I'd suggest dropping the 2 Star Engines. They aren't essential and easy to free up here. After that all you have to do is drop one Fusion Pistol from each of the 2 Troupe squads. The benefit of Doom will easily offset the slight reduction in Fusion shots. I know you have Troupe Masters but Doom benefits your whole army and from 24".

Farseer then will also allow you a further proper Smite or use of either Guide or Fortune.

I know that you mention the Imperial FAQ, but I am not aware of any previous instance where an FAQ or update for one army was also held as rules for a totally different army. Otherwise Orks would be reducing the costs of their overpriced powerfists, the same as imperial powerfists had their points costs dropped. They're two seperate armies, so their rules are completely seperate.

Unless GW actually put that additional rule into the Xenos FAQ, then it's irrelevent. Not saying that's not their intention, but RAW you don't pay for the Wraithfighter spirit stones because they aren't listed as wargear.

Saying that, I totally expect this to be a wasted arguement anyway as they'll probably correct the mistake in the codex next month. Probably. Though it's GW so you never know!


Back on topic though, I have made those changes that you suggested (I prefer farseers to warlocks anyway) but erring on the side of caution if I pay 10 points for the Hemlock then I am still over on points by 6. Probably close enough for any games I'd play tbh, but I could drop an embrace for a sword maybe.

Having checked the Imperium 1 errata as well as the Company Champion datasheet, I now believe they made a mistake when writing that. They probably thought the Combat Shield was listed under wargear, and the question pertained to whether you had to pay for non-optional wargear.

The biggest problem with the situation as it is is that it makes it very likely that a majority of players are paying the wrong amount of points for their models. This is insane, and has probably resulted in thousands of lists having too many points by GW's reckoning. Miscalculations are one thing, and will happen sometimes, but this is actively obscuring how much things cost. It's like they're trying to force you into "gotcha!" moments.

@Niiru, in all honesty dropping one down to Harlequin Blade isn't a bad thing. If they take a casualty pre-combat, you know which one took that bullet! Obviously just make sure third the same one that dropped the Fusion Pistol too.

@ Cream Tea. Totally agree this creates unnecessary confusion. Now personally confused whether I have overspent by 20pts..let's hope the Codex arrives asap. If the Facebook post about which Craftworld you like most is anything to go by, then it will be next, before the Nids..

How would you guys rank the jetbike options we have at the moment?

Including all the bikes, so:

Windriders
Shining Spears
Reaver Jetbikes
Skyweavers

Can even add in Vypers and Voidweavers. Not starweavers though, as they are obviously very good as transports.

Fromt Best (top) to worst (bottom)


Shiny Spears
Windriders
Voidweaver
Skyweavers
Vyper
Reavers


Windriders are just cheap and good, with a Warlock and conceal you can fill out some cheap effective units.

Many LOVE skyweavers and yeah they are good, but they dont really go a lot of damage, they are great at moving fast, advanceing and charging, and thats it. Once they get there they dont do a lot of damage and are costly.

Shiny Spears 3 vs 2 skyweavers (same wound amount) is something like a 12pts? difference but you get S6 and S8 in shooting and melee, still have a 16" movement and 4++, but a 3+ just no -1 to hit, You also have catapalts so its less range over all but more shots. It is for sure more damage output. Where Skyweavers are a bit more survivable.

So Shiny Spears i would consider the best b.c they have high damage, Ynnari works great on them and a Warlock next to them buffs the survivability a lot. A 5man unit can do AI and AT, with Word of the Phoenix its insanely good.
Shiny Spears can get this in 1 turn;
Catapult A1, 4 (x5) 25; S4 rend
Lance Shoot, A1 (x4) 4; S6 -4 2D
Lance Melee, A2 (x4) 8; S6 -4 2D
Lance Shoot, A1 (x1) 1; S8 -4 2D
Lance Melee, A2 (x3) 3; S8 -4 2D

Voidweavers vs Vypers and them in general. Voidweavers are basically the idea of mass cheap 4++ -1 to hit 3 weapon platform spam. Vypers dont have the invul or -1 to hit and are just as costly with basically same weapons, so this is the worst out of everything other than Reavers.


Reavers are to costly and "jack of all trades" unit that doesnt do enough in shooting or melee. Only get 1 weapon per for speical gun and 1 weapon per for its "special style rule weapon". To make Reavers good, ALL the models needs to be able to take Grav-Talons or Custom Caltrops. Or all can take a special weapon. AND make the weapons cheaper. Heat Lances are 25pts! And Blasters are 15pts for D3 damage where a Fusion 2pts more is D6 damage with Melta rule.


Edit 2: Many wont agree with this, many will agree with some. Im just basing it on my experience, i have played many DE/Harlequin games with splash of Eldar, but i havent fully played all the units like Vypers for an Example, i wouldnt take them b.c i have 4 Voidweavers and think they are better.
Edit: Spelling and added Shiny Spears amounts

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Fromt Best (top) to worst (bottom)


Shiny Spears
Windriders
Voidweaver
Skyweavers
Vyper
Reavers

I don't have Shining Spears/Windriders, but I agree with the ranking of the other units, as well as the explanations.
I would put the Voidweaver in the "okay" category. Not great, but it has some use. It puts out enough shots to be somewhat of a threat, and doesn't die too quickly. Of course the CWE index has better shuricannon platforms, and the DE index better high strength ones. I mostly play it because I like harlequins.
The others are "meh" to "pretty bad (reavers)". I like to play Skyweavers because they can often manage T1 charges (when they're not Ynnari), and are a bit scary to opponents unfamiliar with harlequins, but their damage output really doesn't justify their cost. Only 3 S4 attacks isn't enough. Most of the time, they charge, kill almost nothing, and get shredded to pieces on the next turn.

fresus wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Fromt Best (top) to worst (bottom)


Shiny Spears
Windriders
Voidweaver
Skyweavers
Vyper
Reavers

I don't have Shining Spears/Windriders, but I agree with the ranking of the other units, as well as the explanations.
I would put the Voidweaver in the "okay" category. Not great, but it has some use. It puts out enough shots to be somewhat of a threat, and doesn't die too quickly. Of course the CWE index has better shuricannon platforms, and the DE index better high strength ones. I mostly play it because I like harlequins.
The others are "meh" to "pretty bad (reavers)". I like to play Skyweavers because they can often manage T1 charges (when they're not Ynnari), and are a bit scary to opponents unfamiliar with harlequins, but their damage output really doesn't justify their cost. Only 3 S4 attacks isn't enough. Most of the time, they charge, kill almost nothing, and get shredded to pieces on the next turn.

Yeah, i agree with all of this. I even tried 6 man Skyweavers and get T1 charges.... it just doesnt do anything. For 330 Points to not do much is sad.

well if the rumor thread is true..the nids get the next codex....so hope for thanksgiving or xmas for the elder.

Bummer

 admironheart wrote:
well if the rumor thread is true..the nids get the next codex....so hope for thanksgiving or xmas for the elder.

Bummer

Why would Eldar be later than Nov? The Eldar Rumors AND nids rumors just came out today in the WD with pics, both starter box's for Eldar and Nids are out.

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22366633_10155530493040325_2034202909874336874_n.jpg?oh=d786d8023cadb0389c66665c1bc85681&oe=5A84D830
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22365561_1527166753997934_871978524358595812_n.jpg?oh=890be6382475030eee8b12cb514195a2&oe=5A74120E

We already seen 2 codex's drop at the same time, there is 0 reason to think Eldar and Nids are not out Nov.

 admironheart wrote:
well if the rumor thread is true..the nids get the next codex....so hope for thanksgiving or xmas for the elder.

Bummer

It's been said preorders for Codex Craftworlds start next saturday, along with preorders for plastic Eldrad. Not confirmed, but hey, it's GW.

The new start collecting was leaked, and Nids confirmed for November. Almost a guarantee Eldar dex will be out before the end of the month. The 28th is also the release of the Ynnari black library book which i always figured was a sign and now seems to be confirmed.

The start collecting is wraithguard, a lord, warwalker, and farseer. Interesting mix, some are wondering if the guard will become heavy support to make the box playable, or troops. Either would shake things up.

I'll try and stay on top of news and update the first post once we have more solid information.

Colgado wrote:
The new start collecting was leaked, and Nids confirmed for November. Almost a guarantee Eldar dex will be out before the end of the month. The 28th is also the release of the Ynnari black library book which i always figured was a sign and now seems to be confirmed.

The start collecting is wraithguard, a lord, warwalker, and farseer. Interesting mix, some are wondering if the guard will become heavy support to make the box playable, or troops. Either would shake things up.

I'll try and stay on top of news and update the first post once we have more solid information.

I would assume Iyanden would unlock wraithguard as troops. It would fit with the noise marines / berserkers from chaos. I doubt they would be universally troops. Though it is odd if the box set is designed that way, as it is painted in Samm-Hain colours.

Though none of those units are really Samm-Hain-esque, as there should be jetbikes and grav tanks in there. So they probably just chose the most popular eldar colours.

They just use Saim-Hann for all Craftworld packaging, like how they use Ultramarines for all SM packaging. I think it's a good idea actually, it makes it more obvious from the box that they're the same faction, and it looks more aesthetically pleasing.

 Cream Tea wrote:
They just use Saim-Hann for all Craftworld packaging, like how they use Ultramarines for all SM packaging. I think it's a good idea actually, it makes it more obvious from the box that they're the same faction, and it looks more aesthetically pleasing.

I dont disagree, make life easier for parents buying presents too I guess if they know to generally "buy the red ones".

New SC looks really good. If a new codex fixes issues I may revisit my Eldar. Really really hoping for plastic aspect warriors at long last, but not holding my breath.

In theory I like the idea of plastic aspect warriors. In practuceI am still running my original Jes Goodwin Reapers and Scorpions. I didn't bother updating the last 2 times they got new models so I am not sure I would start now.

I have close to 50 Dire Avenger troopers from that same era....really hoping the rules get better for them rather than new models.

All of Jes Goodwin's elder stuff holds up for the game.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/15/coming-soon-a-new-codex-for-the-craftworlds/

GW actually releasing a Xenos codex at last! Illuminati confirmed!

Hmmm, trigger that with a unit of Wraithblades nearby for some serious choppiness.

 Karhedron wrote:
Hmmm, trigger that with a unit of Wraithblades nearby for some serious choppiness.

With a risk of losing up to 3 wounds in the process. Not terrible. Would also pump a wraithlord up to 6 attacks, and a wraithknight's titanic feet from 12 to 24 attacks.

I wonder why they made the keyword <IYANDEN WRAITH CONSTRUCT> though... wraith construct isn't a keyword in the game at all right now. Spirit Host is though, and that is only on Wraith units... so why not just Iyanden Spirit Host? Wonder if that heralds some other kind of change. Such as adding more units to being affected by this item, that aren't Wraiths.

Wraith, for Eldar, doesn't actually mean the dead guys (wraithguard, wraithlords, etc), but refers to the Wraithbone that they are made from. Wave Serpents and War Walkers are also "constructed" of wraithbone. Just a thought.

Its a little upsetting that Wraithblades only net like +2 attacks instead of a straight "Double Attacks" or "Attack Twice", but still that many chops coming in are bound to do some work

Goobi2 wrote:
Its a little upsetting that Wraithblades only net like +2 attacks instead of a straight "Double Attacks" or "Attack Twice", but still that many chops coming in are bound to do some work

True, forgot their swords had chainsword rules. Still, going from 3 attacks per model to 5 attacks per model isn't bad.

Niiru wrote:

Goobi2 wrote:
Its a little upsetting that Wraithblades only net like +2 attacks instead of a straight "Double Attacks" or "Attack Twice", but still that many chops coming in are bound to do some work

True, forgot their swords had chainsword rules. Still, going from 3 attacks per model to 5 attacks per model isn't bad.

6 on a turn they charge may make a huge difference, specially if you bring 10 Wraiths squads..

but TBH i'm still hoping for some special rule or Area buff granting Wraithguards or wraithblades some extra save roll like disgusting resilient!

Niiru wrote:
With a risk of losing up to 3 wounds in the process. Not terrible. Would also pump a wraithlord up to 6 attacks, and a wraithknight's titanic feet from 12 to 24 attacks.

Woo yeah! I forgot about titanic feet. I have a hilarious image of a Wraithknight playing football with Mortarion. That should be enough to take about half his wounds off in a round of combat.

Niiru wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:
Hmmm, trigger that with a unit of Wraithblades nearby for some serious choppiness.

With a risk of losing up to 3 wounds in the process. Not terrible. Would also pump a wraithlord up to 6 attacks, and a wraithknight's titanic feet from 12 to 24 attacks.

I wonder why they made the keyword <IYANDEN WRAITH CONSTRUCT> though... wraith construct isn't a keyword in the game at all right now. Spirit Host is though, and that is only on Wraith units... so why not just Iyanden Spirit Host? Wonder if that heralds some other kind of change. Such as adding more units to being affected by this item, that aren't Wraiths.

Wraith, for Eldar, doesn't actually mean the dead guys (wraithguard, wraithlords, etc), but refers to the Wraithbone that they are made from. Wave Serpents and War Walkers are also "constructed" of wraithbone. Just a thought.

D3 mortal wounds on the unit sounds like a very small price to pay for an entire squad of choppy. Considering that each Wraithblade has 3 wounds; it's only a 33% chance of losing a single model for the entire squad (provided they're undamaged first).

I haven't run any math or gameplay; but if anything, it seems like the wounds might be a bit low for the potential return; I initially thought it was d3 per model in the squad, until I re-read it.

Either way, Eldar relics seem super strong (if a bit niche) - that said, I love the idea of a Wraithknight going super stompy mode with its feet.