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Dawnstrider wrote:
So do named characters that do not have a specific craftworld associated with them not get a warlord trait?

The Phoenix Lords don't. The Avatar of Khaine does, but I'd argue that he has to have the trait associated with the craftworld your Avatar is from, as he seems to be, for all intents and purposes, a named character. All non-Phoenix Lord, non-Avatar named characters are from a specific craftword, such as Eldrad Ulthran of Ulthwé.

(Named characters are forced to have a specific warlord trait determined by their craftworld if they are your warlord.)

That's to bad.

Is there anyway at all Karandras/Striking Scorpions can be viewed as viable

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
Is there anyway at all Karandras/Striking Scorpions can be viewed as viable

I hope so! They got cheaper but need some extra something still, they continue to be not much more than an exarch-fist delivery system.

Spartacus wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
Is there anyway at all Karandras/Striking Scorpions can be viewed as viable

I hope so! They got cheaper but need some extra something still, they continue to be not much more than an exarch-fist delivery system.

Has Karandras changed much? Because he wasn't worth taking I didn't think in the initial book.

Jaq Draco lives wrote:

Has Karandras changed much? Because he wasn't worth taking I didn't think in the initial book.

He's 18 points cheaper (now 150), 1 PL less, and his Scorpion's Claw no longer gives him -1 to hit.

So no, but he's less bad now.

 Galef wrote:

 Sarigar wrote:
I'm running 2 x 10 Wraithguard and utilizing quicken on the one unit with D Scythes. Got a keep a reroll available that phase to ensure the power is cast.

Just FYI, we recently found out that Hemlocks cannot cast Quicken as they only have access to the second power of any Runes of Battle power. So you need to figure out a way to get a Warlock near them (Skyrunner maybe)

Yep. Tracking that change. There is other stuff in my army. When I use Hemlocks, I pretty much only cast Smite. They have short range weapons and Smite complement it well.

 Galef wrote:

 Sarigar wrote:
I'm running 2 x 10 Wraithguard and utilizing quicken on the one unit with D Scythes. Got a keep a reroll available that phase to ensure the power is cast.

Just FYI, we recently found out that Hemlocks cannot cast Quicken as they only have access to the second power of any Runes of Battle power. So you need to figure out a way to get a Warlock near them (Skyrunner maybe)

Quicken has 18" cast range right? You could take a minimal squad of a Warlock Conclave and use the Concordance of Power (1 CP) Stratagem to double the range of the power to 36". Slightly cheaper than a Skyrunner Warlock and the conclave will know two powers.

 Sarigar wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Thanks for posting the wording. it definitely clears some things up. So with the Webway rules is pretty powerful, keep in mind that you need to spend 3 CPs to get a second unit to do it, it's once per battle and cannot be used in the same game as the Cloudstrike. This means that at most, you only get 2 units deep striking (unless the unit itself has the ability normally).

Overall, I think this is a great balance, especially as if give Wraithguard without D-scythes an appealing strategy.

@em_en_oh_pee: Even though you have to set up 9" away, Eldar have a psychic power called Quicken that allows a unit to move as if it was the Movement phase. So you can Deep Strike a unit of 10 D-scythe WG, cast Quicken on them to get right up in range of several units and Blast away.
If those WG are Ynnari (in a separate detachment, of course) you can also Soulburst with them.

-

Yea man! Looks like one unit of 10 + Warlock for the Quicken. Might not be so much of a T1 maneuver, but maybe T2 once you have your stuff get into position. Lots of factors, but it sounds just brutal.

This is what I posted on the NC 40K FB page. (Charlie). I'm running 2 x 10 Wraithguard and utilizing quicken on the one unit with D Scythes. Got a keep a reroll available that phase to ensure the power is cast.

It has some counters to be aware of, but dropping 20 Wraithguard supported by 3 Hemlocks makes me think it is a potential alpha or beta strike. This is why using the Alaitoc trait for the airwing detachment is fairly significant.

Hey Charlie! Why am I not surprised to see you in this thread!

Since you can only quicken one unit, not sure it's worth doing two WG squads. Maybe try for a Warlock Skyrunner to fly in and quicken the WG, then have a unit of Shadow Spectres drop in too? Just a thought, since they can be outside 12" and be at the -2 to-hit.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Sarigar wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Thanks for posting the wording. it definitely clears some things up. So with the Webway rules is pretty powerful, keep in mind that you need to spend 3 CPs to get a second unit to do it, it's once per battle and cannot be used in the same game as the Cloudstrike. This means that at most, you only get 2 units deep striking (unless the unit itself has the ability normally).

Overall, I think this is a great balance, especially as if give Wraithguard without D-scythes an appealing strategy.

@em_en_oh_pee: Even though you have to set up 9" away, Eldar have a psychic power called Quicken that allows a unit to move as if it was the Movement phase. So you can Deep Strike a unit of 10 D-scythe WG, cast Quicken on them to get right up in range of several units and Blast away.
If those WG are Ynnari (in a separate detachment, of course) you can also Soulburst with them.

-

Yea man! Looks like one unit of 10 + Warlock for the Quicken. Might not be so much of a T1 maneuver, but maybe T2 once you have your stuff get into position. Lots of factors, but it sounds just brutal.

This is what I posted on the NC 40K FB page. (Charlie). I'm running 2 x 10 Wraithguard and utilizing quicken on the one unit with D Scythes. Got a keep a reroll available that phase to ensure the power is cast.

It has some counters to be aware of, but dropping 20 Wraithguard supported by 3 Hemlocks makes me think it is a potential alpha or beta strike. This is why using the Alaitoc trait for the airwing detachment is fairly significant.

Hey Charlie! Why am I not surprised to see you in this thread!

Since you can only quicken one unit, not sure it's worth doing two WG squads. Maybe try for a Warlock Skyrunner to fly in and quicken the WG, then have a unit of Shadow Spectres drop in too? Just a thought, since they can be outside 12" and be at the -2 to-hit.

Quicken is for the D Scythe unit as it will ensure to get within 8 inch shooting range. I won't need it for the Wraithcannon squad.

I actually don't own Shadow Spectres yet. Lot of potential with them. With Quicken having an 18" range, it won't be particularly difficult to get a model into position to cast it.

I don't see how quicken on WG is more reliable than sticking them inside a now better wave serpant and transporting htem up the field...

WG are not fast units.. even while advancing. Assuming average rolls... your going to move ~17" something around that. You mentioned the rerolls.. so maybe 18-20" but just as easily can roll a 1 :p


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am sure others have made the comment.. I was really looking forward to seeing the new traits.. but I think Ynnari is still more powerful (assuming you can't be both).

Alaitoc is strong but is counterable, most other craftworld traits are helpful but not overly strong (not a bad thing).

Mr.Pengwinn wrote:
Quicken has 18" cast range right? You could take a minimal squad of a Warlock Conclave and use the Concordance of Power (1 CP) Stratagem to double the range of the power to 36". Slightly cheaper than a Skyrunner Warlock and the conclave will know two powers.

The other advantage of this approach is that the Conclave will almost certainly be outside the 24" range for Deny the Witch meaning your opponent will not get a chance to try and cancel the power. Spending 1 CP to make it effectively undeniable is probably worth it when you consider the firepower 10 D-Scythes can unleash.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grizzyzz wrote:
I don't see how quicken on WG is more reliable than sticking them inside a now better wave serpant and transporting htem up the field...

It's all about the alpha-strike baby!

A Wave Serpent gives you a Turn 2 hit and can be focussed down by concentrated firepower. Serpents are tough and good but they are not indestructibly, especially if your opponent knows what the cargo is.

The Webway Stratagem gives you the option of a Turn 1 strike that your opponent cannot do much to prevent. If you can delete an important unit before it contributes to the game, that is a big advantage. Plus you still have the unit of WG rocking around your opponent's deployment zone that he will need to deal with ASAP before they chew through more of his army.

Might work well with the Iyanden Trait to cap Battleshock losses. A 10-man WG squad can lose members if it takes 4+ casualties in a turn. Even 2-3 survivors can continue to make a big nuisance of themselves.

It’s a big all in tho. 2 units of 10 is almost 900 points. Even erasing 2 units they will struggle to make their points back. As ynnari it could be nastier granted where they can shoot twice. Well the dscythe anyway. But it is going to be tough for them to survive the counter attack.
Definitely worth playing around with tho.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grizzyzz wrote:
I don't see how quicken on WG is more reliable than sticking them inside a now better wave serpant and transporting htem up the field...

WG are not fast units.. even while advancing. Assuming average rolls... your going to move ~17" something around that. You mentioned the rerolls.. so maybe 18-20" but just as easily can roll a 1 :p


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am sure others have made the comment.. I was really looking forward to seeing the new traits.. but I think Ynnari is still more powerful (assuming you can't be both).

Alaitoc is strong but is counterable, most other craftworld traits are helpful but not overly strong (not a bad thing).

Really depends on your build. Mech eldar under the index was super strong and doesn’t really care so much for strength from death. But having -1 to hit or 6+++ saves is a big deal for them. But, cheaper (in comparison) eldar mean that a more foot heavy army is viable again, especially with the deployment stratagems now and the addition of some psychic powers like quicken and protect. This obviously benefits from strength from death more.

There are clearly 2 good all round traits that can be built to be as good or better then ynnari, and the others are at least candidates for running a detachment in conjunction to ynnari. While they might not be 100% on par to each other in power, they are at least close enough to the each other that it is at least a discussion that takes place.

I certainly will be using it for a unit of wraithguard for 1 CP but I don't feel going all in is the answer. 10 wraithguard plus the tools to quicken is a huge chunk of points...which is totally nerfed if anyone uses screening units. a unit of 5 wraithguard is 200pts and only a small part of your army, but still capable of knocking a big unit down on turn 2 or 3. Maybe I'd take 6 of them just to ensure the hits/damage.

 bullyboy wrote:
I certainly will be using it for a unit of wraithguard for 1 CP but I don't feel going all in is the answer. 10 wraithguard plus the tools to quicken is a huge chunk of points...which is totally nerfed if anyone uses screening units. a unit of 5 wraithguard is 200pts and only a small part of your army, but still capable of knocking a big unit down on turn 2 or 3. Maybe I'd take 6 of them just to ensure the hits/damage.

Keep in mind that if your opponent does heavily screen, you can just wait a turn to drop the WG into place after you have time to clear some chaff. With Conscripts nerfed, that might help us see screens reduced in presence for a bit (except for the still outstanding ones like Brimstones).

But if you are going to wait a turn to drop them, why not just put them in a Serpent?
I am kinda thinking that D-scythes are good in Serpents, Cannons are good for the Webway.
I might split the difference in my list and do 1 unit of each

 Galef wrote:
But if you are going to wait a turn to drop them, why not just put them in a Serpent?
I am kinda thinking that D-scythes are good in Serpents, Cannons are good for the Webway.
I might split the difference in my list and do 1 unit of each

You could in theory do both for the D-Scythes. Just have a Wave Serpent in your list. Then you can opt to Deep Strike if it looks viable or, if not, roll up in the transport. Depends on the list and overall strategies, I suppose.

 Galef wrote:
But if you are going to wait a turn to drop them, why not just put them in a Serpent?
I am kinda thinking that D-scythes are good in Serpents, Cannons are good for the Webway.
I might split the difference in my list and do 1 unit of each

This is the simplest solution and avoids the need to spend extra CPs on boosting a power from your Warlock Conclave (which could still fail).

IMHO, Wraithguard are much better in this role than Fire Dragons since FDs work best within melta range (6"). Wraithguard have S10 shooting, 3 T6 wounds apiece rather than 1 T3 wound and can walk out of combat while still shooting. Unless you are seriously squeezed for points, it is hard to see why you would take Fire Dragons over Wraithguard.

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
Is there anyway at all Karandras/Striking Scorpions can be viewed as viable

I use 10 Striking Scorpions with a Farseer with fortune/doom and a warlock with protect/jinx in a wave serpent. Works amazing, they can charge pretty much anything they want turn 2, very hard to kill with 2+ saves and 5+ ignore a wound. Doom will help them take out tougher targets.

Mr.Pengwinn wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 Sarigar wrote:
I'm running 2 x 10 Wraithguard and utilizing quicken on the one unit with D Scythes. Got a keep a reroll available that phase to ensure the power is cast.

Just FYI, we recently found out that Hemlocks cannot cast Quicken as they only have access to the second power of any Runes of Battle power. So you need to figure out a way to get a Warlock near them (Skyrunner maybe)

Quicken has 18" cast range right? You could take a minimal squad of a Warlock Conclave and use the Concordance of Power (1 CP) Stratagem to double the range of the power to 36". Slightly cheaper than a Skyrunner Warlock and the conclave will know two powers.

warlock conclave can't be protected as they lose the character role. the skyrunner lock can be. also the skyrunner lock can take relics and or warlord traits, and get the ability to reroll psykic test.

An arguement could be made that the on foot warlock could be the best as he is cheaper, and with 18" range 7" move and an adavnce he'd almost always be in range to cast quicken.

however the on foot warlock kind of falls off alittle after turn 1 because he'll start to struggle to cast buffs, also a debuffing warlock will struggle to get range turn 1, and struggle to hit it the best target later in the game.

in my book if your not using transports the skyrunner lock is the most reliable (the skyrunner lock is almost liteeally a windrider, 25pts, and a warlock 30pts plus tax. So if your bringing any windrider kick one out and give hks bike to the lock who will use it better.) btw i feel like twin catapult windriders are the best varient now... they are better dire avengers with out obsec.

if you have transports or arnt running windriders the foot lock moght be best as he can fit inside, pop out and cast spells and be safe with character rule..

the conclaive is on,y good if your spending cp to web way portal them in and you plan to win your game via alpha strike. otherwise if you dont go first your oppoent will have a very easy time killing your conclaive. A handful of mortars or dark repears can kill these guys every game, and as warlocks are force multipliers each unit you close effects your wole game drasticly.

On a personal note, my characters do not sully themselves by setting foot an alien soil. If I can feasibly get all my characters on a jetbike, I will. it's a shame the Warlock Skyrunners are so expensive (as this is the only reason to take them over a Spiritseer)

 Galef wrote:
On a personal note, my characters do not sully themselves by setting foot an alien soil. If I can feasibly get all my characters on a jetbike, I will. it's a shame the Warlock Skyrunners are so expensive (as this is the only reason to take them over a Spiritseer)

Haha, I like this. I'd love to make an all-floating army (hornets would be cool alternatives to war walkers), but then I wouldn't be able to run a wraithguard squad or a wraithlord. Although I guess I could make an exception for the dead. Or somehow model them on bikes.


Edit: I wonder if it might be worth starting a new tactica page soon, as most of the information in this thread would be incorrect anyway after the codex drops? I believe it's traditional to start a new thread for a new codex (or at least that's what happened with AdMech, I'm not sure if the IG guys did the same).

I only ask because I was tempted to do it, would also give me a decent starting point for cultivating information and strategies for the Tactica. But didn't want to do it if people were more attached to the current thread haha

Niiru wrote:

 Galef wrote:
On a personal note, my characters do not sully themselves by setting foot an alien soil. If I can feasibly get all my characters on a jetbike, I will. it's a shame the Warlock Skyrunners are so expensive (as this is the only reason to take them over a Spiritseer)

Haha, I like this. I'd love to make an all-floating army (hornets would be cool alternatives to war walkers), but then I wouldn't be able to run a wraithguard squad or a wraithlord. Although I guess I could make an exception for the dead. Or somehow model them on bikes.


Edit: I wonder if it might be worth starting a new tactica page soon, as most of the information in this thread would be incorrect anyway after the codex drops? I believe it's traditional to start a new thread for a new codex (or at least that's what happened with AdMech, I'm not sure if the IG guys did the same).

I only ask because I was tempted to do it, would also give me a decent starting point for cultivating information and strategies for the Tactica. But didn't want to do it if people were more attached to the current thread haha

Probably a great idea. I know I am trying to get on the bandwagon and digging through 50 pages is daunting.

I had the same thought about this thread being outdated now.

Be happy to see a new more relevant Tactica thread.

Yes, a new thread would be good. Lots of advice will be outdated tomorrow.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/743155.page

There we go then, a new Codex: Craftworlds thread, all primed and ready to go. I'll change the OP when the codex actually drops tomorrow, but until then we can start as and when