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Need some opinions here. Back in 7th, I ran missilesides all the way- high yield pods and SMS, because the sheer amount of dakka meant they made their points back and then some every game, whereas railguns... at one shot apiece at S8 they were mediocre as tank hunters and that's assuming their shots actually hit something, whereas 4S7 missiles meant they were good against light/medium vehicles, monstrous creatures and all sorts of infantry, even SMEQs because of the sheer amount of saves you could force.

Now in 8th, the new stats make it look like railguns are cool again. 2 shots (no rerolls, though), S8, -4 rend, and D6 wounds, meaning that if you score a hit it's likely to hurt (although you'd still be susceptible to bad dice rolls- but aren't we always?)

So my question is this: With the one broadside I haven't actually put together yet, should I actually go for a railgun? (I have four missilesides with SMS already) Also, I think you can take regular missile pods now as a secondary, which seems pretty cool given the D3 wounds and -1 rend if you're going for a an anti-vehicle/monster piece.

Or are Broadsides just overcosted these days, at 80 pts?

The railgun is a viable option these days, but if I were to run Broadsides, it'd still be with HYMP and sms with an advanced targeting system. That's a lot of dakka that can actually cut through armor, and you don't lose much against the hard targets. Unfortunately, that configuration is not 80 pts, my friend, it's over 200. Broadsides are 80pts before you buy any of their weapons.

Yeah, they're pricey, but they do rock 6 wounds each with 2+ saves and T5, with the ability to pass wounds to nearby drones. At least they're tough as nails.

Kind of? Compare that with a hammerhead at T7, W13 for basically the same cost.

HRRs have more damage output than hammerheads except, I think, against T8.


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These weapons are all quite well balanced against each other. I'm impressed.

MilkmanAl wrote:
The railgun is a viable option these days, but if I were to run Broadsides, it'd still be with HYMP and sms with an advanced targeting system. That's a lot of dakka that can actually cut through armor, and you don't lose much against the hard targets. Unfortunately, that configuration is not 80 pts, my friend, it's over 200. Broadsides are 80pts before you buy any of their weapons.

WAIT WHAT? 200 points EACH? WHAT THE HELL.

MilkmanAl wrote:
Kind of? Compare that with a hammerhead at T7, W13 for basically the same cost.

With being able to shug wounds that cause D3/D6 off to drones, Broadsides are more survivable the Hammerheads, they also have a smaller profile, so they are slightly harder to kill.

 SevenSeasOfRhye wrote:

MilkmanAl wrote:
The railgun is a viable option these days, but if I were to run Broadsides, it'd still be with HYMP and sms with an advanced targeting system. That's a lot of dakka that can actually cut through armor, and you don't lose much against the hard targets. Unfortunately, that configuration is not 80 pts, my friend, it's over 200. Broadsides are 80pts before you buy any of their weapons.

WAIT WHAT? 200 points EACH? WHAT THE HELL.

GW don't want you to be able to use your battlesuit collection, apparently.

 SevenSeasOfRhye wrote:

MilkmanAl wrote:
The railgun is a viable option these days, but if I were to run Broadsides, it'd still be with HYMP and sms with an advanced targeting system. That's a lot of dakka that can actually cut through armor, and you don't lose much against the hard targets. Unfortunately, that configuration is not 80 pts, my friend, it's over 200. Broadsides are 80pts before you buy any of their weapons.

WAIT WHAT? 200 points EACH? WHAT THE HELL.

It has tank durability now.

The Broadside on the WarhammerTV game the other day took out a Chaos Lord with an Overwatch shot and then finished off a Bloodthirster. Totally made his points back.

KaoxVeed wrote:
The Broadside on the WarhammerTV game the other day took out a Chaos Lord with an Overwatch shot and then finished off a Bloodthirster. Totally made his points back.

That... makes it better, but even so, with such a hefty cost it'll be unlikely to run more than one, maybe two, in a standard game. Which sucks because I have five of them. Are the guns at least that much more effective overall?

 SevenSeasOfRhye wrote:

KaoxVeed wrote:
The Broadside on the WarhammerTV game the other day took out a Chaos Lord with an Overwatch shot and then finished off a Bloodthirster. Totally made his points back.

That... makes it better, but even so, with such a hefty cost it'll be unlikely to run more than one, maybe two, in a standard game. Which sucks because I have five of them. Are the guns at least that much more effective overall?

Double the gun, but more than double the cost.

Big things cost more in general, my advice is to maybe reset your meta to 3000 point games.

Edit: Oh, and markerlights don't really do much anymore.

It's not actually double the guns. It's more like 33% more firepower at baseline with a higher potential ceiling. While they're certainly more durable, you e got to keep drones around them to pawn off big gun shots on, assuming your opponent doesn't bother to clean house with small arms before targeting the Broadsides. I'm willing to give them a try, but it's hard for me to buy that they're going to be better than 25 Fire Warriors, especially with how wounding and marker lights work.

Broadsides are now effectively tanks that can benefit from cover and move as if they were infantry. The HRR is effectively two Vanquisher battle cannons, + possible further mortal wounds. The HYMP is effectively four autocannons. They'd better be expensive.

Agree to disagree, I suppose. They're more durable but not as durable as similarly-costed vehicles without significant attention to surrounding them with drones. Speaking of which, 200pts of gun drones is 100 S5 shots. Broadsides are no slouch in the firepower department, but they can't measure up to that. Again, I'm interested in trying them, but i think there are better options for any of their configurations.

Broadsides will outperform those 100 drone shots against heavy vehicles, not to mention range and ability to choose targets. They serve different roles, but I think people are getting a little carried away with gun drones.

Question, everyone: what's a good secondary? I plan on doing a railgun broadside, and I'm wondering if I should go with missile pods or plasma rifle. What's the stats like these days?

 SevenSeasOfRhye wrote:
Question, everyone: what's a good secondary? I plan on doing a railgun broadside, and I'm wondering if I should go with missile pods or plasma rifle. What's the stats like these days?

The plasmas are cheaper, but I don't know if you want to get a Broadside close enough to use them well.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 SevenSeasOfRhye wrote:
Question, everyone: what's a good secondary? I plan on doing a railgun broadside, and I'm wondering if I should go with missile pods or plasma rifle. What's the stats like these days?

The plasmas are cheaper, but I don't know if you want to get a Broadside close enough to use them well.

If you decide to put EWO on it to keep it safe from deep strikers, then the plasmas are a good choice (since enemies in EWO range will be in rapid fire plasma range).

My mentality when it comes to using a specialist unit like the broadside, whose role is heavy firepower, is to always accentuate the role I've chosen for it. That's why I always went HYMP with SMS; it made for the dakka-est loadout. With a railgun, its role would be taking out monsters and vehicles, and missile pods would complement that role well, what with their high strength and range. Does that make sense?


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Also, is it worth taking seeker missiles? Are they actually good? Overcosted?

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 SevenSeasOfRhye wrote:
Question, everyone: what's a good secondary? I plan on doing a railgun broadside, and I'm wondering if I should go with missile pods or plasma rifle. What's the stats like these days?

The plasmas are cheaper, but I don't know if you want to get a Broadside close enough to use them well.

I don't think you'll have a choice - things will get close to them.

Seeker missiles aren't really good in few numbers. I'd use them only in big piranha units, hammerheads around longstrike (and with him) and 2+ sky rays

I think commanders with fusion blasters make broadsides look a bit silly. Ghostkeels make them look extremely silly.

You've got this situation now where all three suits - the ghostkeel, commander and broadside, cost roughly the same amount. So what are you getting for your points?

I don't think a HRR broadside offers anything that a commander with 4 missile pods doesn't. The broadside can have a couple of SMS, but you may as well spend the 40 points they cost on a whole troops choice of fire warriors. The commander can move and shoot and hits on a 2+; the broadside can have an advanced targeting system. The ATS is very good to be fair, but not enough to make the whole package worth it in my opinion.

The trouble with the railside is the comparison with stuff other people have. It costs more than a marine venerable dreadnought with twin-lascannon and DCCW, and that guy owns it. A 4-lascannon predator has twice as many guns as a railside, nearly twice as many wounds, hits on 3s and has better strength.

The good news is that Tau have other options. A ghostkeel will cost roughly the same as a broadside, but have way more wounds and -1 or -2 to hit when shot at. A commander with fusion blasters has 4 shots that hit on 2s, and as a character is quite difficult to get rid of (and even then can pass wounds to drones).

Railsides have two things going for them in my opinion: they look awesome and they have a very long range. The range can potentially be less-than-awesome, given that you have to pay lots of points for secondary weapons that might not get to shoot much.

I'm currently trying to come up with Tau lists. I'm finding that I use a lot of HQs, troops and elites. My plan is to have multiple detachments and lots of command points. I think my army will be based around stuff in devilfish, commanders and drones. I do want some markerlights but am not sure whether to put them on pathfinders or marker drones.

One slightly cheeky thing I'm looking at is charging people on turn 1 with ghostkeels. I don't expect them to kill things, but there are lots of things that will be annoyed to find themselves engaged in melee, forced to fall back and not shoot. I'm considering running a unit of stealths with a homing beacon and farsight to troll people a bit more, though honestly I don't think he's better than a fusion blaster suit. He does give interesting options for heroically intervening in combats though.