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I am going to run a Leviathan with 2X storm cannon and plasma Inceptors.
Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!
Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."
"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."
DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough.
I'm putting together a Xiphon for my antitank/flyer. Not quite as bleeding edge as a Leviathan but 4 lascannons and 3 S6/-2/3D missiles can do some decent damage. Also seriously considering a venator because they hit hard and nerf the opponent with a -1 to hit. That could be a lifesaver against the oncoming wave of knights...
Talizvar wrote: I have this sneaking suspicion me having not bought one Forgeworld kit direct ever may change soon.
I'm holding off. Each time I'm about to hit the bottom to submit the order, I decide to wait a week or so. By that time it's been nerfed and I dodged a bullet.
Going to echo what one of the posters in your other thread said - I think you'll find Hellblasters in Fortis Kill teams to be of greater benefit as a whole. Everything they said is correct - you'll double their survivability, add some SIA punch, and give them obsec. I run a unit with 5 Bolt Rifle Intercessors, 4 rapid fire plasma Hellblasters, and 1 Plasma Inceptor. I like max sized units because of the stratagems, and the Inceptor is there because my Hellblasters have routinely been silenced with a charge and I like to avoid that.
Lemondish wrote: Going to echo what one of the posters in your other thread said - I think you'll find Hellblasters in Fortis Kill teams to be of greater benefit as a whole. Everything they said is correct - you'll double their survivability, add some SIA punch, and give them obsec. I run a unit with 5 Bolt Rifle Intercessors, 4 rapid fire plasma Hellblasters, and 1 Plasma Inceptor. I like max sized units because of the stratagems, and the Inceptor is there because my Hellblasters have routinely been silenced with a charge and I like to avoid that.
Inceptors outdamage hellblasters per point against most things. They're just so, so very squishy for their cost. I see little reason not to include one in a unit with a bunch of relatively cheap wounds in front of it though.
I’ve found aggressors to be my MVPs lately, probably due to a gross amount of daemon and dark eldar players in my local meta. The sheer quantity of shots they can put out outweighs the lack of special issue ammo, and with all the invulns and transport spam it’s mostly a matter of pushing through enough 5+ wounds. They definitely need a Watchmaster or captain for buffs though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/15 02:26:28
Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!
Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."
"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."
DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough.
I think that'd go a little too far. They're already the best version of the unit, hands down, considering they have easy access to re-rolling 1s to wound without adding on the cost of another character. They also have access to +1 to wound, ablative wounds that allow them a greater chance to shoot twice, and look way cooler with a DW shoulder pad
Lemondish wrote: Going to echo what one of the posters in your other thread said - I think you'll find Hellblasters in Fortis Kill teams to be of greater benefit as a whole. Everything they said is correct - you'll double their survivability, add some SIA punch, and give them obsec. I run a unit with 5 Bolt Rifle Intercessors, 4 rapid fire plasma Hellblasters, and 1 Plasma Inceptor. I like max sized units because of the stratagems, and the Inceptor is there because my Hellblasters have routinely been silenced with a charge and I like to avoid that.
Inceptors outdamage hellblasters per point against most things. They're just so, so very squishy for their cost. I see little reason not to include one in a unit with a bunch of relatively cheap wounds in front of it though.
I don't have enough Inceptor models to even proxy it at the moment, but I really wanted to test out a 5 Intercessor 1 Aggressor 4 Inceptor unit as my plasma action. Advance without the penalty and rain white hot plasma at something alongside a captain or watch master. Expensive, but then I never do things half assed in DW...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/15 03:13:46
If I use the beacon Angelis to teleport a unit does that count as moving for the purpose of shooting I.e.: I want my aggressors to double tap after teleport.
Martel732 wrote: I'm thinking functional CP battery: 15 intercessors, watch captain, primaris libby. Why use the other models?
That works out pretty decently, but I rather just use the Guard plug and play CP battery and blow out my points on larger kill teams. They've been the stars in every game I've played largely because the strats have a much greater effect on larger squads so you don't need as much CP in the first place.
I also play more Xenos than anyone else, so that helps. Still haven't had to face Drukhari yet, though. I'm expecting to get my nose bloodied there and bring my DW plans crashing down to earth.
Hey guys, I got a deathwatch list and some points to spare, I'm feeling that there is something missing here in the form of heavy vehicle damage but I could be wrong. Idea is that DW provide fire support and BA, the punchy Melee.
My base list is DW + BA.
Spoiler:
1754/2000 pts BA + DW List
BA Battalion +5 CP ==========HQ==============
- 1 x Captain (TH + SS, Jump pack, Warlord (Artisan of war), -1 CP for Death visions)
- 1 x The Sanguinor
==========Troops============
- 3 x 5 Scouts (Basic loadouts, 1 x Heavy Bolter)
==========Elite==============
- 1 x 7 Sanguinary Guard (5 x Encarmine sword, 2 x Power fist)
And i'm looking for suggestions what to add, I have some ideas such as:
- AMCP battery
Spoiler:
AM Battalion +5 CP ==========HQ==============
- 1 x Company commander (Kurov's Aquila, standard loadout)
- 1 x Lord Commisar (Power fist, Bolt pistol), Had a few points to spare, so upgraded a company commander and give him a fist.
==========Troops============
- 3 x 10 man-Infantry squad (6 Guardsmen, Guardsman w/ special weapon (Plasma gun), Heavy weapons team (Autocannon))
Not sure if this is what I want, but additional bodies and CP's are always nice, so I figured i'd include it. It also rounds my points to exactly 2k.
- Inceptor squad, I head they're pretty alright, especially the plasma variant. But I've no experience with em, or have seen them in action.
- Bike squad, Red that DW bikers are pretty good and can provide a good amount of shots.
- Repulsor. Doesn't exactly fit the list, but I can cut 2 hell blasters to make it fit. Not sure about the effectiveness of it though or a proper load out. I think this would also allow me to quickly drop a squad in rapid fire range.
- Devastator squad. I think the best variation are the raven-guard ones, but a 10 man BAdev squad would also probably be good for taking out tanks if fit with 4 x las canon,5 x marines for ablative wounds.)
- Other suggestions? There are many options, but I'm just not sure what the best option for my situation is.
Alright, I'm getting stuck with decision paralysis and am hoping you ladies/gents (I use those terms loosely) can offer some help. I'm trying to put something together that I wouldn't be embarrassed to bring to a GT (most likely ITC rules). From a purely competitive view I'm probably better off just buying some dark eldar but I like my guys.
I really like my base battalion of DW, like I love the models, concept, fluff and on table ability:
Cap/master (depending on points)
P. Libby
2x primarius teams w/ a couple aggressors (2-3 depending on point availability)
1x team w/ storm bolters (deepstriking, these guys are sooo good)
1x team w/ stalker rifles
Xiphon
Not sure about it replacing the stalker bolt guys who do a great job of back field objective holding. Doing just enough damage to help but not enough to become a priority for the enemy but the anti-big game punch of the xiphon is something I've been lacking.
Now I've been toying with supplementing them with Custodes (own), IG (don't own), BA (own), Raven guard(own) or DA(own) for some big game hunting help.
I really like DA plasma ceptors with WftDA. IMHO they are point for point the most damaging thing available to marines but they are so squishy. I'm in love with scouts so this is a plus for BA, DA and extra points for the -1 to hit RG ones. Once the Xiphon gets blown up turn 1-2 it's nice to be able to drop some really powerful anything killers. Dropping down the storm bolter team backed by the plasma ceptors kills anything w/in 12-18"
BA captain slammy is awesome but death company fill the same role as the kill teams and I haven't had good luck with sang guard. They are so CP hungry and nearly as squishy as the DA (once they show up on the battle field I'm lucky if they stick around for a second turn). I could just go memphy and 2 captains with some scouts but the second captain just isn't as good without the no-overwatch relic. But captain slammy is more points per wound efficient than even the DA plasma ceptors while being harder to get that efficiency out of and works best against a smaller band of enemies.
Or I could go with my trusty raven guard, my favorite scouts, a stalker tank (cheap t8 anti-flyer) and a RG leviathan. I could drop the stalker and the stalker rifle team for a couple dev squads (hb+ML for hellfire+flakk strats) that 6ish mortal wounds is a game changer some times. The leviathan and xiphon seem like a really good combo (hard to get rid of them both turn 1).
The mobility of custodes is awesome but I can't fit more than a patrol (2x bike caps, 4 guard, 4 bikes and maybe the -1 to hit vex) and @ str 7 they just don't punch big things hard enough and all those storm bolters seem redundant with the volume of fire I'm putting out with the kill teams. I love the mobility and the counter melee punch of the guard is nice but 0 cp hurts. These guys draw all the enemy fire so my teams end up putting in work. Once the beta rules for telemons go live I'd love to get this guy (love the model) in the mix but then I'd pretty much be obligated to run the guard CP battery and I'm not looking forward to adding to my "to paint" pile...
IG. Castling up with kill teams and guard protecting some manticores seems very effective. End up with tons of CP, I just don't own any and it seems kind of boring to play with/against. I probably should just bite the bullet and buy/paint a guard CP battery but that feels so net-listy to me and I'm really praying they nerf the aquilla and grand strat BS.
Those are my thoughts. All over the place I know. I have too many SM models and I think all of them are good options. I don't have the time to play enough games with the various combos to really see how they work on the table so I'm hoping ya'll have some experience I can draw from.
bananathug wrote: 2x primarius teams w/ a couple aggressors (2-3 depending on point availability)
1x team w/ storm bolters (deepstriking, these guys are sooo good)
1x team w/ stalker rifles
Xiphon
I don't see anything that allows this. Also, battlescribe does not allow it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/15 17:50:02
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
bananathug wrote: 2x primarius teams w/ a couple aggressors (2-3 depending on point availability)
1x team w/ storm bolters (deepstriking, these guys are sooo good)
1x team w/ stalker rifles
Xiphon
I don't see anything that allows this. Also, battlescribe does not allow it.
Lose the Stalker Bolt Rifles. They're terrible.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Marmatag wrote: Can deathwatch take FW Xiphons? I don't see anything that allows this. Also, battlescribe does not allow it.
It is covered by the very first question in the Imperial Armour FAQ.
Thank you. For 240 points these things are straight busted and I would bring 2 easily. You can use a ton of the DW stratagems on them since they have the deathwatch keyword.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/15 18:50:43
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
grouchoben wrote: Aside from Doctrines, what did you have in mind Marmatag?
I believe all the anti-xenos ones can affect it. Some would obviously be better than others, but even just the Doctrines would be fantastic. Wound T8 on 2s, potentially rerolling 1s?
Xiphons are the price I wish Land Raiders were lol
Ok, after having thought about it a lot, I think this is a much better list. As much as I like the levi's they just wont pull as much weight as their cost demands. This list however seems really strong as long as your opponent isn't tailored againgst it.
If they don't have a lot of dedicated anti-meq firepower they are gonna have trouble. Enough bodies that you can sacrifice the guardsmen with no real loss as a screen. Enough heavy firepower to deal with knights. lots of ways to deal with durable melee rushers. Very good TAC list I feel.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/17 13:25:44
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bananathug wrote: 2x primarius teams w/ a couple aggressors (2-3 depending on point availability)
1x team w/ storm bolters (deepstriking, these guys are sooo good)
1x team w/ stalker rifles
Xiphon
I don't see anything that allows this. Also, battlescribe does not allow it.
all FW stuff was broken out into a separate catalog because of the number of marine factions using them, set it as a child detachment in force selection.
Ok, after having thought about it a lot, I think this is a much better list. As much as I like the levi's they just wont pull as much weight as their cost demands. This list however seems really strong as long as your opponent isn't tailored againgst it.
If they don't have a lot of dedicated anti-meq firepower they are gonna have trouble. Enough bodies that you can sacrifice the guardsmen with no real loss as a screen. Enough heavy firepower to deal with knights. lots of ways to deal with durable melee rushers. Very good TAC list I feel.
Throw those Xiphons into an air superiority detachment for an extra 1 CP.
I really like what you have there. For awhile I was solving my anti-tank issues with the Leman Russ, but I think I'd much rather have the Xiphon. Looks like the air superiority wing xiphon bundle is about 330 dollars in my local currency for exactly the pieces I'd need. I've been holding off from Forgeworld for so long simply because I've seen them get rebalanced HARD the other way, so I'm still not yet sure whether its worth it...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/17 20:42:14
bananathug wrote: 2x primarius teams w/ a couple aggressors (2-3 depending on point availability)
1x team w/ storm bolters (deepstriking, these guys are sooo good)
1x team w/ stalker rifles
Xiphon
I don't see anything that allows this. Also, battlescribe does not allow it.
Lose the Stalker Bolt Rifles. They're terrible.
Stalker bolt rifles aren't meant to deepstrike. Spend 200 points for 2 units that have 36" range ap -2 guns that wound on 2's. How are they terrible? They're good back line support.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/18 14:55:23
bananathug wrote: 2x primarius teams w/ a couple aggressors (2-3 depending on point availability)
1x team w/ storm bolters (deepstriking, these guys are sooo good)
1x team w/ stalker rifles
Xiphon
I don't see anything that allows this. Also, battlescribe does not allow it.
Lose the Stalker Bolt Rifles. They're terrible.
Stalker bolt rifles aren't meant to deepstrike. Spend 200 points for 2 units that have 36" range ap -2 guns that wound on 2's. How are they terrible? They're good back line support.
It's 220 points for two units.
And they're often considered a bad investment because they're just a single immobile shot. Bolt rifles are cheaper, provide greater mobility, and more importantly can double tap threats that try to disrupt your backline with deep strike or high mobility units.
They'll fit a very specific role, for instance if you want a unit sitting in the back stapled to an objective pumping out hellfire rounds from 36'' with AP -2 while never moving for any reason ever. They'll be more expensive than the tactically more flexible bolt rifles, but you can make it work. For me, units trying to disrupt my backfield really show how woefully undergunned the stalkers can be.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/18 15:52:09
