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meleti wrote:

ballzonya wrote:
What about imperial Knights as antitank? Armigars or even a knight

I think that's really tricky to do well. DW like spending CP, Knights like spending CP, you're going to run out of CP very quickly.

A solo knight or some armigers shouldn’t be too cp hungry. The occasional rotate ion shield, plus a relic or warlord trait

Looking to build this list, the club nearest to me runs a league which is 1750 points with a maximum of 2 detachments and no forgeworld or allied forces.

]++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Deathwatch) [63 PL, 1092pts] ++[/b]

+ No Force Org Slot +

Reference: SIA Weapon Profiles

+ HQ +

b]Watch Captain [5 PL, 92pts]:[/b] Bolt Pistol, Lord of Hidden Knowledge, Master-crafted Boltgun, Power fist, Tome of the Ectoclades, Warlord

Watch Captain [5 PL, 80pts]: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Master-crafted Boltgun

+ Troops +

b]Intercessors [9 PL, 172pts][/b]
. Hellblaster: Bolt Pistol, Plasma incinerator
. Hellblaster: Bolt Pistol, Plasma incinerator
. Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle
. Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle
. Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle
. Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle
. Intercessor Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle, Power sword

b]Intercessors [9 PL, 172pts][/b]
. Hellblaster: Bolt Pistol, Plasma incinerator
. Hellblaster: Bolt Pistol, Plasma incinerator
. Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle
. Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle
. Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle
. Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle
. Intercessor Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle, Power sword

b]Veterans [13 PL, 184pts][/b]
. Veteran: Chainsword, Storm Bolter
. Veteran: Chainsword, Storm Bolter
. Veteran: Chainsword, Storm Bolter
. Veteran: Boltgun
. Veteran w/ Heavy Weapon: Deathwatch Frag Cannon
. Veteran w/ Heavy Weapon: Deathwatch Frag Cannon
. Watch Sergeant: Power axe, Storm Bolter

+ Fast Attack +

Inceptor Squad [10 PL, 135pts]
. Inceptor
. . Two Assault Bolters: 2x Assault bolter
. Inceptor
. . Two Assault Bolters: 2x Assault bolter
. Inceptor Sergeant
. . Two Assault Bolters: 2x Assault bolter

+ Flyer +

Corvus Blackstar [12 PL, 257pts]: Auspex Array, Hurricane bolter, Twin lascannon
. 2x Stormstrike Missile Launchers: 2x Stormstrike missile launcher

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Deathwatch) [37 PL, 658pts] ++

+ HQ +

Chaplain [5 PL, 91pts]: Plasma pistol, Power fist

+ Elites +

Terminators [16 PL, 237pts]
. Deathwatch Terminator Sergeant
. . Power Sword and Stormbolter: Power sword, Storm Bolter
. Terminator
. . Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield: Storm shield, Thunder hammer
. Terminator
. . Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield: Storm shield, Thunder hammer
. Terminator
. . Power Fist and Stormbolter: Power fist, Storm Bolter
. Terminator
. . Power Fist and Stormbolter: Power fist, Storm Bolter

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 165pts]: Missile launcher, Twin lascannon

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 165pts]: Missile launcher, Twin lascannon

++ Total: [100 PL, 1750pts] ++

Thinking of the 2 dreads will sit deep with the barbone watch Captain and re roll hits all day, the intercessors
Will advance on foot with the tooled up watch master and pop targets. The inceptors will buzz around shooting taking objectives while the corvus mounted termies and chaplain fly off and hunt juicy targets. Thinking of deep striking the vets in to use their frag cannons and storm bolters.

Any thoughts? Tried to cram in some decent anti vehicle for with the sniper dreads and the termies also have the ability with the corvus to hunt big targets too. The captain having the relic to recover cp on a 5+ should be helpful too.Considering a land raider instead of the corvus though...

I think there's a case for DW terminators actually, but it's niche as hell. 200pts buys you 5 termis with Power Axes and (you guessed it) SIA Stormbolters.

Dropped into cover, they don't have to worry about charge distances, they just hold and dakka. You're paying a tax for coolness, but you are actually getting a decent unit - a pain to shift, great shooting and can still do something in CC.

 grouchoben wrote:
I think there's a case for DW terminators actually, but it's niche as hell. 200pts buys you 5 termis with Power Axes and (you guessed it) SIA Stormbolters.

Dropped into cover, they don't have to worry about charge distances, they just hold and dakka. You're paying a tax for coolness, but you are actually getting a decent unit - a pain to shift, great shooting and can still do something in CC.

Thinking of using them as a versatile unit where they could destroy armour and also take on infantry if needed.

Thoughts on a chaplain?

The trick is threading the needle between not too costly to lose easily, and a threat that has to be taken seriously. TH/SS termi squad is really expensive and has no better chance of making the charge than a squad of guardsmen. I can see their value, but paying around 300pts for 5models is a bit ott.

Add to that SIA SBs and I think cheap-as-chips is the way to go. 200pts is still overcosted I think, but in the one game I ran them they did good work.

If I was going to upgrade them it would be to SB & fists, so they still have a purpose if there's no charge.

C4790M wrote:

A solo knight or some armigers shouldn’t be too cp hungry. The occasional rotate ion shield, plus a relic or warlord trait

I'd agree with this. A Warden and a pair of Warglaives or an Errant and a pair of Helverins shouldn't be too CP hungry and will compliment DW quite nicely.

novembermike wrote:

C4790M wrote:

A solo knight or some armigers shouldn’t be too cp hungry. The occasional rotate ion shield, plus a relic or warlord trait

I'd agree with this. A Warden and a pair of Warglaives or an Errant and a pair of Helverins shouldn't be too CP hungry and will compliment DW quite nicely.

I think that depends a lot on their houses and the knights you choose. Things like Full Tilt, Glory in Honour, or Sally Forth will eat up CP well over what they contribute from their detachment. Powerful, yes - but to make that army work you need both DW and Knights eager to use their stratagems where needed.

Will need to add that Guard Batt to make it worthwhile, I think.

Which WLT do you think is the best and why?

 Primark G wrote:
Which WLT do you think is the best and why?

That's not a serious question is it? You're basically forced into Lord Of Hidden Knowledge.

I used to think there was potential for The Watch Eternal as it adds some survival to a low model count army, but I'm not terribly certain it's worth it as the radius is too low to really get some serious mileage out of it.

It is a serious question - LoHK is the no brainer but I was hoping maybe another is a sleeper. One of your problems is you insult people here immediately with no real basis to attack them.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
Which WLT do you think is the best and why?

That's not a serious question is it? You're basically forced into Lord Of Hidden Knowledge.

I used to think there was potential for The Watch Eternal as it adds some survival to a low model count army, but I'm not terribly certain it's worth it as the radius is too low to really get some serious mileage out of it.

It's sad to say, but I must absolutely agree with you 100%. The warlord choices are so meh across the board you really are limited to the command point farm option which even then is entirely worse than the guard one and mostly worse than the ultramarine one. The watch eternal one actually had me considering it until I broke it down and re-read it. It only works on the last wound so the primaris options are denied that synergy and then it's not like it is going to effect all that many models within it's range. Even if you have 10-20 guys somehow within 6 you are looking at saving 2-3 of them IF they don't get overkilled via tons of wounds or multiple damage attacks. Is that really worth a warlord trait? Not even close.

If for some reason you don't want to run the walmart brand CP farm warlord trait you could try castellan of the black vault on a watchmaster for a pretty nifty weapon. Shame he only has four attacks though,


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Primark G wrote:
It is a serious question - LoHK is the no brainer but I was hoping maybe another is a sleeper. One of your problems is you insult people here immediately with no real basis to attack them.

I don't really see anything insulting in what he said.

Wondering if any one has had a chance to look into what kind of a killteam would be good for DW.

I expect units and equipment to be expensive point wise.

Also with special issue ammo, do you think shotguns have a place or should be go all in on bolters?

If any one has an example of a 100 point team that would be great.

Al Haquis wrote:
Wondering if any one has had a chance to look into what kind of a killteam would be good for DW.

I expect units and equipment to be expensive point wise.

Also with special issue ammo, do you think shotguns have a place or should be go all in on bolters?

If any one has an example of a 100 point team that would be great.

I had a chance to briefly look at the killteam rulebook at my FLGS and as I recall the bolt weapons (including pistols) were 2 points. I don't remember what those weapons are stock for codex versions of primaris. I think intercessors and reivers were 16 points so 20 with their ammo. Gunners and sergeants were 17 I think. They might have been 18. I think the knife options for reiver's was 0 so you could get a 5 man primaris team with 3 intercessors and 2 reivers. Normal veterans were 13 or 14 points I believe.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
Which WLT do you think is the best and why?

That's not a serious question is it? You're basically forced into Lord Of Hidden Knowledge.

I used to think there was potential for The Watch Eternal as it adds some survival to a low model count army, but I'm not terribly certain it's worth it as the radius is too low to really get some serious mileage out of it.

It's sad to say, but I must absolutely agree with you 100%. The warlord choices are so meh across the board you really are limited to the command point farm option which even then is entirely worse than the guard one and mostly worse than the ultramarine one. The watch eternal one actually had me considering it until I broke it down and re-read it. It only works on the last wound so the primaris options are denied that synergy and then it's not like it is going to effect all that many models within it's range. Even if you have 10-20 guys somehow within 6 you are looking at saving 2-3 of them IF they don't get overkilled via tons of wounds or multiple damage attacks. Is that really worth a warlord trait? Not even close.

If for some reason you don't want to run the walmart brand CP farm warlord trait you could try castellan of the black vault on a watchmaster for a pretty nifty weapon. Shame he only has four attacks though,


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Primark G wrote:
It is a serious question - LoHK is the no brainer but I was hoping maybe another is a sleeper. One of your problems is you insult people here immediately with no real basis to attack them.

I don't really see anything insulting in what he said.

Were The Watch Eternal a range of 9" I might consider it.

Nice thing about Black Vault is the Helfire shot from the Watch Master. That's gonna kill any 3 wound model in one shot. That's pretty rad if he weren't stuck with Rapid Fire 1, but I suppose I'm almost complaining to complain about that

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
Which WLT do you think is the best and why?

That's not a serious question is it? You're basically forced into Lord Of Hidden Knowledge.

I used to think there was potential for The Watch Eternal as it adds some survival to a low model count army, but I'm not terribly certain it's worth it as the radius is too low to really get some serious mileage out of it.

It's sad to say, but I must absolutely agree with you 100%. The warlord choices are so meh across the board you really are limited to the command point farm option which even then is entirely worse than the guard one and mostly worse than the ultramarine one. The watch eternal one actually had me considering it until I broke it down and re-read it. It only works on the last wound so the primaris options are denied that synergy and then it's not like it is going to effect all that many models within it's range. Even if you have 10-20 guys somehow within 6 you are looking at saving 2-3 of them IF they don't get overkilled via tons of wounds or multiple damage attacks. Is that really worth a warlord trait? Not even close.

If for some reason you don't want to run the walmart brand CP farm warlord trait you could try castellan of the black vault on a watchmaster for a pretty nifty weapon. Shame he only has four attacks though,


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Primark G wrote:
It is a serious question - LoHK is the no brainer but I was hoping maybe another is a sleeper. One of your problems is you insult people here immediately with no real basis to attack them.

I don't really see anything insulting in what he said.

Were The Watch Eternal a range of 9" I might consider it.

Nice thing about Black Vault is the Helfire shot from the Watch Master. That's gonna kill any 3 wound model in one shot. That's pretty rad if he weren't stuck with Rapid Fire 1, but I suppose I'm almost complaining to complain about that

9 inches and per wound and I'd run it with primaris, termies and bikers, but probably not veterans.

Yeah it makes the master a bit more killy, but is that worth a warlord trait? Personally I'd say no.

I like Castellan of the Black Vault for a Smash Captain... synergizes well with Bane Bolts.

 Primark G wrote:
I like Castellan of the Black Vault for a Smash Captain... synergizes well with Bane Bolts.

You're not allowed to combine the two on the same weapon. So basically that's the Storm Bolter and then some other weapon.

Yeah I know - I use it for the stormbolter... the rules even says it must use SIA... geez. /rollseyes

 Primark G wrote:
Yeah I know - I use it for the stormbolter... the rules even says it must use SIA... geez. /rollseyes

More the point I'm saying you aren't getting a lot from the two combined.

Anyone run dreads for the backfield?? I was going to run 2 venerable dreads with Lascannon and missiles in the back with a barebones captain for rerolls for anti tank buy an seriously considering having 3 of them basically never missing with 6 lascannon and 3 missile launchers.

DW has the problem, that their infantry is already pretty expensive. One way to mitigate this is to not offer the enemie's AT weapons useful targets because the DW infantry can already deal with anything and you can therefor waste the points of your opponent spend on lascanons by having him shoot at marines with them.

Dreads with BS2+ are just the biggest shoot-me sign you could possibly place on the board.
In a meta where you need AT but your opponents don't have much of it against you it would be a good choice though. Until it becomes clear how prevalent knights end up being I'd stay away from anything big.

Yeah I suppose you are right about the being shot thing but they could be very valuable for claiming objectives at the rear and drawing attention away from my valuable glass hammer veterans and terminators etc

Even object camping I think vets with stalker rifles do a better job of.

I thought I'd share a recent success in my DW lists. It's not particularly innovative and pretty boring, but my emprah they've been effective:

Hellblaster squads. Not Fortis, just straight up hellblasters. The helltercessor team is a trap I think: 270pts is way too much, and I was getting pretty dissappointed with their impact. 70 more points doubles your plaz, after all. I've been running the following spearhead detachment in place of my Gallant/Helverin/Helverin, and I think I prefer it:

Watch Captain with jumppack and TH
Hellblasters x5
Hellblasters x5
Leviathan dread with 2xSCAs and 3xHKMs

Hellblasters DSing with reroll 1s to wound is such a different prospect to their standard incarnation. The two biggest differences are: 1) alpha immunity. Everyone know that Blasters should be your opponent's no.1 priority for what to do with their anti-infantry weapons. Starting othem off the board means you're guaranteed to get a full round shooting with each squad at rapid fire range, and very often more, as you can judiciously respond to your opponent's deployment and use cover to deny shots. 2) far fewer -1s to hit, as they can drop in within 12" to deny its most common form. It makes them viable again against their strongest weakness: overheat on 1s and 2s.

So yeah, it's not a mind-expanding suggestion I know but take a squad or two out for a spin. 170pts for 5 deepstriking hellblasters with baked-in LT reroll is a gooood price point in my book.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
Yeah I know - I use it for the stormbolter... the rules even says it must use SIA... geez. /rollseyes

More the point I'm saying you aren't getting a lot from the two combined.

A Watch Captain with a 4 damage thunder hammer and a 2 damage storm bolter is pretty killy at any range.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 combatcotton wrote:
Even object camping I think vets with stalker rifles do a better job of.

Sadly that squad isn't as dangerous to tanks nor is it very durable.

(Whereas, as long as you give it 'reroll 1s', a DW 5-man hellblaster squad with the appropriate mission tactics does 9 damage to a Russ – or deletes a Pred – dropping untouched out of DS.)

Lemondish wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
Yeah I know - I use it for the stormbolter... the rules even says it must use SIA... geez. /rollseyes

More the point I'm saying you aren't getting a lot from the two combined.

A Watch Captain with a 4 damage thunder hammer and a 2 damage storm bolter is pretty killy at any range.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 combatcotton wrote:
Even object camping I think vets with stalker rifles do a better job of.

Sadly that squad isn't as dangerous to tanks nor is it very durable.

It isn't worth taking a Warlord trait though.
Also Vets with Stalkers are fine if they're in cover. Outside cover there wouldn't be a lot of point though, but they're basically the perfect thing to Combat Squad (hey the rule finally does something now!)
×5 Vets with Stalker Bolters
×4 Bikers w/ whatever
×1 Vanguard with whatever
Combat the Vets from everyone else and BAM you're good.

 grouchoben wrote:
I thought I'd share a recent success in my DW lists. It's not particularly innovative and pretty boring, but my emprah they've been effective:

Hellblaster squads. Not Fortis, just straight up hellblasters. The helltercessor team is a trap I think: 270pts is way too much, and I was getting pretty dissappointed with their impact. 70 more points doubles your plaz, after all. I've been running the following spearhead detachment in place of my Gallant/Helverin/Helverin, and I think I prefer it:

Watch Captain with jumppack and TH
Hellblasters x5
Hellblasters x5
Leviathan dread with 2xSCAs and 3xHKMs

Hellblasters DSing with reroll 1s to wound is such a different prospect to their standard incarnation. The two biggest differences are: 1) alpha immunity. Everyone know that Blasters should be your opponent's no.1 priority for what to do with their anti-infantry weapons. Starting othem off the board means you're guaranteed to get a full round shooting with each squad at rapid fire range, and very often more, as you can judiciously respond to your opponent's deployment and use cover to deny shots. 2) far fewer -1s to hit, as they can drop in within 12" to deny its most common form. It makes them viable again against their strongest weakness: overheat on 1s and 2s.

So yeah, it's not a mind-expanding suggestion I know but take a squad or two out for a spin. 170pts for 5 deepstriking hellblasters with baked-in LT reroll is a gooood price point in my book.

I always praised mixed squads for primaris because it protected hellblasters. Instead of running blobs of hellblasters I could now split them up into units of intercessors which themselves are pretty darn solid now. I never even thought of having just hellblasters deepstrike. Assuming you can get them in range of a re-roll machine they could be pretty darn solid. I like your idea and plan to try it at some point. Thanks for sharing!

Need to make a choice tomorrow between buying terminators or more veterans... Taking my box of Reivers back to the shop as I have realised they are not a very good choice haha.

Reivers are awesome models. Keep them. They will probably get buff in CA. Primaris are really underperforming, and GW knows this.