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My thoughts would be "Yay!". I love the Corvus and regularly play it despite its problems.
My experience with it has swung around. I used to run it pure dakka with auspex, and it was underwhelming. These days I run it AT with inferno halum. Why? Well, it can't move. It needs to shoot things in the face, so it wants Watchmaster full rerolls, and no minus to hit. Otherwise it's just a glorified Rhino.
So I use it to bring my drop count down, and try to set it up within 9" of cover, so its kill team can jump out and get into cover. After that it acts as an expensive predator, basically.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/02 14:10:00
bullyboy wrote: Couldn't stand the thought of just playing Primaris Deathwatch. Most of the interesting weapons are with the vets.
What would people's thoughts be if the Corvus was given POTMS?
POTMS absolutely necessary, and would definitely help it. But go further than that.
This is a special ops army, and what's more special ops than being delivered super quick in a lightning fast raid by air? The Corvus Blackstar should get the same Grav Chute Insertion rule of the Imperial Navy Valkyrie. That would make it unique among SM flyer transports, and would easily make it worth its current points as a quick strike transport tool with reliable firepower.
There are a boatload of ways I can think of where they could mine the flavour of Deathwatch to improve this unit, but they aren't really all that likely without a new data sheet, which right now means a new codex.
Played a game yesterday and just thought I'd report back my thoughts as a newish player to the faction.
Played against new orks with lots of truck boys, ghazzy, tankbusters, battlewagon and bikes plus new buggies.
I'm a traditional DW player and neither myself or my opponent were using optimised lists. I don't use primaris so fielded 3 mixed veteran squads, one close combat focused in a corvus, one closed ranged firepower focused in a landraider crusader and one long ranged with stalkers and a cyclone terminator. Had a watchmaster, terminator libby and 2 dreads.
To round it off I had the loyal 32, so hard not to take them even in a more casual game as I really need the bodies and command points.
A few things spring to mind, firstly my two expensive vehicles. The corvus really needs potms as it's accuracy is a problem for such a points heavy vehicle, deathwatch squads are too expensive to not have on the field so the transport capacity is really only useful for protecting stuff on turn one and maybe two.
The landraider did put out alot of fire but I was really conscious of not taking it anywhere near the orks for fear of getting locked in combat, hoping chapter approved gives it the ability to fire in combat as a points drop won't help with the fact it just can't do what it's supposed to do which is drive fearlessly into the heart of the enemy.
Dreads were both pretty good, I had a standard assault cannon/ dccw and a venerable twin las/ml. Both laid down shots all game long. I'm happy the dreadnought is usable this edition even if they aren't allstars.
Vet squads, these were the standouts in the list. The longer range one struggled against his mass of vehicles so I'm gonna look at getting an additional cyclone to stick in the unit.
The close range firepower squad (lots of stormbolters and a few frag cannons) just obliterated anything they focused on, they stuck with the watchmaster so the reroll helped alot.
The melee squad (heavy flamer term, some shotguns and a couple of thunderhammers and a few stormshields) were also great. Put out alot of overwatch hurt and had the survivability to take some big hits and stay in the fight.
One of my main take aways was how much the terminators add to the basic squads. Having the 2+ and a couple of wounds and using the odd command point reroll to keep them going made my squads really effective at weathering all the anti-infantry shooting the orks put out.
The loyal 32 were more or less all dead by turn 2, the cps were obviously good but as my main squads are protected turn one they just died on mass. I'd like to take them out for a few extra watch members and hope that chapter approved may give some kind of bonus for fielding a single faction force.
As I said earlier this isn't intended to be a super competetive army and I'm really building and painting it as a more hobby focused force but I like that they can at least perform reasonably well on the table and feel alot more like elite supersoldier whilst they do it
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/04 12:58:42
Anybody has any experience with Sicarian Destroyer tanks? Especially the Sicarian Venator Tank Destroyer?...The effect of its weapon sounds kinda nice (- to hit if it didnt destroy the target)
Also whats your opinion on normal Dreds with missle launcher and twin lascan vs. same loadout VenDreds vs. mortis Dreds with 2x twin Lascan vs. contemptor mortis Dred with 2x twin Lascan and missle launcher...These would be my alternatives to all the Relic units but there are just so many of them its hard to find a sweet spot of points spend/use of it
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/04 21:28:32
I'm coming round to ven dreads with twin las and ML! Parked a pair in my backfield for a few games now and they've shredded my opponent both times, with WM/ectoclades support. I suspect that's down to them being well suited both times, but the 2+ with rerolls and 3+ to wound rerolling 1s makes them super reliable. They won't set the world alight, but they often sneak into the endgame due to heavier, scarier priorities (eg xiphons, levs). Because they're so reliable, they can function as your anti-air to a degree: they have a 75% chance of forcing a wound through against a -2 hemlock for d6 damage each. That's handy in the right list.
I have a venator, and it's a great model, fairly big footprint. I rate it. It doesn't get mission tactics however, unlike levs and vens and such. The -1 to hit seems to rarely kick in in my experience. Knights auto-rotate against it! More mortal vehicles tend to die the same round. Their ideal prey would be baneblade chassis tanks, but I don't see many of them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/05 00:49:04
I think there's 0 reason to take to a normal dread if the venerable is an option. It's only 20pts more points for 2+ and 6+++. Mortis have better gun options, but I still don't think they're worth the loss of the Venerable perks. Contemptor vs Venerable have their pros and cons.
A rule question I have, which I'm sure has been asked and answered, but I must be looking for it wrong is, how does the DW Hellfire strat work with other chapter's Hellfire? What is the ruling for same titled stratagem, but one affects DW units and one affects [chapter]? Can both be used same turn or does it count as the same strat?
A rule question I have, which I'm sure has been asked and answered, but I must be looking for it wrong is, how does the DW Hellfire strat work with other chapter's Hellfire? What is the ruling for same titled stratagem, but one affects DW units and one affects [chapter]? Can both be used same turn or does it count as the same strat?
If the strategem name is the same they count as the same strategem. There was a note on this in the latest FAQs.
Ive read somewhere that Lascan Razorbacks are actually very point efficient AND give a nice 1st round protection to our units. Also with the new strat they habe a 2+ save which is nice I guess.
Another question. Do you guys have any preferable allies you use? Or do you play strictly mono Deathwatch?
I've yet to give my army a proper run out but my list is
Watch master with the tome
watch Captain with jump pack and hammer
Intercessors X 5 hellblasters X 2 kill team
Intercessors X 5 hellblasters X 2 kill team
Vets x 6 with frag cannons storm bolters
Vets x 5 with 3 combi meltas plus 2 storm bolter storm shield
2 ven dreads las and ml Primaris apothecary
Corvus
5 man hellblasters
Got other options but will give this list a whirl first, tempted to drop the corvus and add a Razorback and more hellblasters
ImPhaeronWeasel wrote: Ive read somewhere that Lascan Razorbacks are actually very point efficient AND give a nice 1st round protection to our units. Also with the new strat they habe a 2+ save which is nice I guess.
Another question. Do you guys have any preferable allies you use? Or do you play strictly mono Deathwatch?
The loyal 32 is boring yet effective, but I find it's worth picking up at least a Rune Priest and Dark Angels Librarian, either in separate detachments or together in a supreme command with something else (usually with another badass rune priest). Tempest's Wrath and Aversion are amazingly helpful defensive boosts, and both units are also a great source of MWs for killing super tough targets.
I prefer to add a Dark Angels battalion instead of going the supreme command route simply because scouts are amazing.
Knights are also a common pick, though lately I've been seeing the Knights/Guard/BA lists but with Knights swapped out for Deathwatch. Many of those people were slow on the uptake and haven't abandoned this despite being unable to maintain the expensive CP costs needed to make it worthwhile, but it's still pretty good.
ImPhaeronWeasel wrote: Ive read somewhere that Lascan Razorbacks are actually very point efficient AND give a nice 1st round protection to our units. Also with the new strat they habe a 2+ save which is nice I guess.
Another question. Do you guys have any preferable allies you use? Or do you play strictly mono Deathwatch?
The loyal 32 is boring yet effective, but I find it's worth picking up at least a Rune Priest and Dark Angels Librarian, either in separate detachments or together in a supreme command with something else [...]
But that isnt a thing anymore isnt it? I thought souping WITHIN a detachment is banned?
Martel732 wrote: I really dislike them. Any kind of minus to hit ruins their day.
Don't use them against most kind of Elves, and Nidz, well, that is basically all the strong Xeno armies. Their minus to hit and inv saves renders Hellblasters useleds
They will work Wonders against Necron "AV13 walls", which is the weakest Xeno army after everybody got their codexes now bar the GSC.
So in conclusion. Hellblasters can be bully units against the "weak" Xenos, but they suck hard against any strong ones.
Rogerio134134 wrote: Does anyone use hellblasters?? I'm thinking of just having a unit of 5 in my army, 10 seems overkill in a Deathwatch list.
The units all share keywords more specific than <imperium> so no, you can put them all in the same detachment, you just won't get any chapter tactics for those units. Often that matters not at all (e.g. 3 librarians from different chapters is hot right now, to access 3 different disciplines.)
ImPhaeronWeasel wrote: Ive read somewhere that Lascan Razorbacks are actually very point efficient AND give a nice 1st round protection to our units. Also with the new strat they habe a 2+ save which is nice I guess.
Another question. Do you guys have any preferable allies you use? Or do you play strictly mono Deathwatch?
The loyal 32 is boring yet effective, but I find it's worth picking up at least a Rune Priest and Dark Angels Librarian, either in separate detachments or together in a supreme command with something else [...]
But that isnt a thing anymore isnt it? I thought souping WITHIN a detachment is banned?
The Battle Brothers rule states that you need a faction keyword in common for all Detachments and it can't be Imperium. However, these units do share another keyword in common - Adeptus Astartes. This trifecta of Librarians is slowly becoming a mainstay for competitive marine lists. Throwing -2 to hit on a big dangerous unit like a Knight can really hurt it for a turn.
ImPhaeronWeasel wrote: Ive read somewhere that Lascan Razorbacks are actually very point efficient AND give a nice 1st round protection to our units. Also with the new strat they habe a 2+ save which is nice I guess.
Another question. Do you guys have any preferable allies you use? Or do you play strictly mono Deathwatch?
Razorbacks in general are reasonably heavy weapon platforms and do a solid job transporting Vets. They're fairly efficient, but in DW I like to put stuff on Dreads whenever possible since they get to benefit from the DW rerolls. The Mortis variant in particular is a great Las Turret.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/06 15:37:09
ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:This sounds like some real but very nice power gaming :O
So the go to Libs would be the DW, DA, SW one
Absolutely. The Librarius discipline is still worth bringing.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:I remember seeing two Librarians before, but I don't remember any third HQ. What's this detachment looking like?
Could do a supreme command with one of each - that's been a common build for most marine forces. Could also include your DW Libby in your own DW battalion, then take separate space wolf or Dark Angels detachments to pick up the other two.
Mr. Evans at SoCal brought like 5 Librarians total I think lol One from a Deathwatch Battalion, one from a Dark Angels Battalion (with scouts), and a Supreme Command with Njal and two Rune Priests.
It's super bloody fluffy, to be honest, on top of being really competitive. I just wish it was a basic DW option so I could get away with painting them all up in DW colours...
I actually hadn't thought about a Supreme Command of Libbys and Rune Priests... I like this. Thanks for the idea!
Primaris vs Vets I have been taking both. I always run 3 Intercessor Squads with various Aggressors, Hellblasters, and Inceptors in them, and always run a single 10 man vet squad. My current iteration runs an Infernus Heavy Bolter (I take it over a regular Heavy Bolter for looks and because we are not hyper-competitive, otherwise it would be a regular HB for the stratagem), 3 Frag Cannons, 5 SB vets (3 chainswords 2 shields), and a Terminator with axe and SB. So far I have been loving it, and usually I DS the 10 man Vet unit plus 1 of the Intercessors (Usually with a Plasma Inceptor, 4 Hellblasters, and 5 Bolt Rifle Intercessors). My third DS is either another Intercessor unit, a dread, or a unit of Hellblasters. Keep in mind I am not in a WAAC Meta of course, but I usually run 2 DW Battalions. The next game I am running 2 Chaplain Dreads instead of 2 regular Ven Dreads because of the Character rule, even though I am missing out on 2 Missile Launchers for it.
I love this thread for ideas. I have two new lists to try out now:
Single Battalion with DA Battalion (That's what I played before DW anyways so easy peasy), and Supreme Command of Wolfies.
Supreme Command of DA, SW, and DW libbies/Runepriests with single Battalion and some Knights.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/07 15:53:24
ImPhaeronWeasel wrote: Does anyone used a Leviathan in a DW list? I struggle somehow to include one PLUS still have some other AT WITHOUT going for Knights...
Storm cannon array Lev is almost stapled to my DW lists. It works so well in DW - it loves the +1 wound strat, and the reroll 1s to wound missions, it loves the ectoclades watchmaster who makes it really formidable in overwatch, (and keeps it effective as it degrades) and its 3 hunter-killers also sync really well with the doctrine strat, so they're effectively equal to or sometimes better than 3 lascannon shots. It always get the strat on its opening round of fire. I never leave home without a libby whose main job is to keep it buffed at T9. It's a problem that has to be dealt with, and so a lot of high-priority targets benefit from its T9 4++ 14W presence, as they get more table time. It's main downsides are 24" range and it needs babysitting to avoid getting shut down in CC.
I don't think there's a better way to spend 325pts in the faction tbh.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/07 19:42:51
ImPhaeronWeasel wrote: Does anyone used a Leviathan in a DW list? I struggle somehow to include one PLUS still have some other AT WITHOUT going for Knights...
Storm cannon array Lev is almost stapled to my DW lists. It works so well in DW - it loves the +1 wound strat, and the reroll 1s to wound missions, it loves the ectoclades watchmaster who makes it really formidable in overwatch, (and keeps it effective as it degrades) and its 3 hunter-killers also sync really well with the doctrine strat, so they're effectively equal to or sometimes better than 3 lascannon shots. It always get the strat on its opening round of fire. I never leave home without a libby whose main job is to keep it buffed at T9. It's a problem that has to be dealt with, and so a lot of high-priority targets benefit from its T9 4++ 14W presence, as they get more table time. It's main downsides are 24" range and it needs babysitting to avoid getting shut down in CC.
I don't think there's a better way to spend 325pts in the faction tbh.
But how do you unlock it and what else are you playing with it (except the buff chars)? I agree that this unit is just amazeballs...Its jusst that I struggle to fit one in a list with 13 CP without having only very few AT except the Leviathan.
ImPhaeronWeasel wrote: Does anyone used a Leviathan in a DW list? I struggle somehow to include one PLUS still have some other AT WITHOUT going for Knights...
Storm cannon array Lev is almost stapled to my DW lists. It works so well in DW - it loves the +1 wound strat, and the reroll 1s to wound missions, it loves the ectoclades watchmaster who makes it really formidable in overwatch, (and keeps it effective as it degrades) and its 3 hunter-killers also sync really well with the doctrine strat, so they're effectively equal to or sometimes better than 3 lascannon shots. It always get the strat on its opening round of fire. I never leave home without a libby whose main job is to keep it buffed at T9. It's a problem that has to be dealt with, and so a lot of high-priority targets benefit from its T9 4++ 14W presence, as they get more table time. It's main downsides are 24" range and it needs babysitting to avoid getting shut down in CC.
I don't think there's a better way to spend 325pts in the faction tbh.
But how do you unlock it and what else are you playing with it (except the buff chars)? I agree that this unit is just amazeballs...Its jusst that I struggle to fit one in a list with 13 CP without having only very few AT except the Leviathan.
Mortis Dreadnought or a Hellblaster squad is probably your best bet to unlock it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Martel732 wrote: Hopefully it ends up more than 325 after ca. Leviathan needs a big nerf.
It's crazy efficient, particularly in DW, but I'm not sure it needs that huge of a change. Definitely in the upper tier of models, but its more of a standout in a collection of things that don't make the cut than anything. Stacked up against the meta and considering the points you have to sink into making it available, its really not making waves.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/07 19:57:40
So ive come up with my first DW list...I want to play it a bit and try out what KT I want to use, what works best and what needs optimization.
I allied the DW with BloodAngels as I couldnt think of better melee units PLUS waaaay before I even thought of starting a power armour army I actually liked BloodAngels the most...
Death Company [18 PL, 224pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
I tried to have a bit of everything...but again this is definitely not perfectly optimized.
I think one TH on the DeathCompany is too much (it overkills stuff it doesnt need to).
Also I think I could squeez a 1CP detachment in (Vanguard for BA) but I want to be main DW not BA.
I aim to be „semi competitive“ with this list as most of the people Ive seen (actually never played against really fluffy armies) in my FLGs.
40,000pts
8,000pts
3,000pts
3,000pts
6,000pts
2,000pts
1,000pts
