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Sterling191 wrote:If you want to get *really* crazy with the Libby Supreme Command trio, go DA libby, SW Runepriest...
And a BA Libby Dreadnought.
I have no idea how well it will work, but the stupid movement and assault things you can do with it make me cackle hysterically.
Okay, I'm convinced. That would be FUN. I'm also going to go ahead and really double down on all this Librarian Supreme Command nonsense and see about making each model very clearly part of Deathwatch, but still noticeably distinct enough that it won't be confusing. Been playing with some old models from a friend to give it a whirl, and I'm down for fitting it in permanently as a fun option.
Martel732 wrote:Hopefully it ends up more than 325 after ca. Leviathan needs a big nerf.
I'm also expecting a nerf simply because its one of the lead performers for all marines and its a forgeworld unit, but those are pretty pessimistic reasons. Should other options become viable again, it won't be a head above everything as it currently is.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/07 20:52:32
Those wishing for a nerf to the lev may be dissappointed. It was recently buffed, to be able to take 3 HK missiles.
If GW do strike it off the competitive list with one of their trademark nerf-bat swings, SM factions will be in a bit of trouble I think. It's a crutch unit for sure.
I dont think gw has the resources to devote to properly costing fw. Leviathan is a good example. It's a no brainer choice, and no brainers are bad for balance.
Agreed, but in the context that you yourself describe, nerfing one of the best units of a struggling set of factions makes little sense, unless it is accompanied by a corresponding buff. Anything else would result in SM factions gurgling further down the 8e plughole.
And it's not like only SOME people can buy Forgeworld. Anyone can, if they have the dough. $115, plus shipping and tax, for a Leviathan with double Storm Cannons.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/07 21:37:09
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
Aye, there's nowt P2W about the Leviathan. It costs a little less money to buy the equivalent number of points in Intercessors, about £57 vs £72. Woop.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/07 22:45:17
Let's be honest here, it's not like the Lev is leading SM in Tournament play. It's a very minor crutch at the middle levels of semi-competitive play. It isn't anything like Girlyman.
ImPhaeronWeasel wrote: So ive come up with my first DW list...I want to play it a bit and try out what KT I want to use, what works best and what needs optimization.
I allied the DW with BloodAngels as I couldnt think of better melee units PLUS waaaay before I even thought of starting a power armour army I actually liked BloodAngels the most...
Death Company [18 PL, 224pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
I tried to have a bit of everything...but again this is definitely not perfectly optimized.
I think one TH on the DeathCompany is too much (it overkills stuff it doesnt need to).
Also I think I could squeez a 1CP detachment in (Vanguard for BA) but I want to be main DW not BA.
I aim to be „semi competitive“ with this list as most of the people Ive seen (actually never played against really fluffy armies) in my FLGs.
Any tip or suggestion is very appreciated!
If you dont wont to combat squad the Aggressors i would give the Intercessors the auto bolt rifle, otherwise if you split them its fine^^
Admech & Deathwatch --------------------------------------
Don´t Hessel the Hof
The leviathan doesn't need a nerf, its not to far off the points of a knight and nowhere near as effective. If anything the stormcannons could be upped by 10-15pts each as they are (like most high rate of fire weapons) under valued by GW, this would make the other options more favourable at least. Also removing the reduction of attacks when you don't take close combat weapons (like other dreads) would encourage a mix of shooting and combat weapons which is kind of what the levi was made for.
Really I can't think of a single Marine unit in all the factions that is truly overpowered for its cost. The only things spammed are Jump captains, scouts and ....... nope nothing else :-) They aren't in any way broken but are at least useful for their points.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/08 09:01:07
ImPhaeronWeasel wrote: So ive come up with my first DW list...I want to play it a bit and try out what KT I want to use, what works best and what needs optimization.
I allied the DW with BloodAngels as I couldnt think of better melee units PLUS waaaay before I even thought of starting a power armour army I actually liked BloodAngels the most...
Death Company [18 PL, 224pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
I tried to have a bit of everything...but again this is definitely not perfectly optimized.
I think one TH on the DeathCompany is too much (it overkills stuff it doesnt need to).
Also I think I could squeez a 1CP detachment in (Vanguard for BA) but I want to be main DW not BA.
I aim to be „semi competitive“ with this list as most of the people Ive seen (actually never played against really fluffy armies) in my FLGs.
Any tip or suggestion is very appreciated!
If you dont wont to combat squad the Aggressors i would give the Intercessors the auto bolt rifle, otherwise if you split them its fine^^
I dont quite get why the auto bolters...If I want to move with the aggressors and have a mobile fire power unit then yes for sure auto bolt rifles...but the plan here is to beacon angelis them up (most preferably in cover) and have them fire from the „middle“ of the board. Like this the RF rifles should be in 15“ range
ya for my opinion the normal rifles are better too, but with the auto bolts + aggressors you can advance all the time with no -1 to hit penalty. But if your plan ist to shoot all time on 15" the bolt rifle is the best for it, over 15" with moving the auto bolts for the 2 shoots flat.
Admech & Deathwatch --------------------------------------
Don´t Hessel the Hof
ImPhaeronWeasel wrote: I dont quite get why the auto bolters...If I want to move with the aggressors and have a mobile fire power unit then yes for sure auto bolt rifles...but the plan here is to beacon angelis them up (most preferably in cover) and have them fire from the „middle“ of the board. Like this the RF rifles should be in 15“ range
If you're only going to be using them with beacon or Teleportarium and don't need them to move much more than forward after they arrive, then stick with the regular bolt rifles.
The key to the auto bolt rifle synergy here is to allow the unit to move roughly 7'' - 12'' a turn with zero penalty to hit and letting another more dangerous unit take advantage of the beacon or stratagem. Provided you're clever with model positioning to cover for the slightly slower Aggressor movement speed while still staying in coherence, you can get some pretty reliable speed out of these guys. Obviously you don't need that synergy if you're just going to beacon them into the thick of it.
Assault+aggressor makes a great turn-1 objective grabber imo. Ideally the unit only moves the once, and is then set to hold the objective while spraying bullets all over the shop.
The teleporter squad lands next turn, so is behind in scoring, and when it does land, the aggressor is shooting normally. Whereas the assault squad are nicely in place, and the aggressor is now shooting 12+2d6 each turn, and must be dealt with. Ymmv, but they do good work for me.
They are ok but:
Vet squads always have done me better (unless going for power and a battalion then some cheap intercessors and major others etc). A few: Storm shields/bolters, combi-plasmas, frags, a pleb or 2, a vanguard, a stock termie to take hits etc for the unit (unit uses teleport strat). Plus some: stalkers/bikers/vanguards 10 man squads for objective /support squads Combated. I take them purely for the options and can customise to be awesome.
These are the bones of an effective force I have found. However, each to own.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/08 17:11:21
14k Generic Space Marine Chapters 20k Deathwatch 10k Sisters of Battle 3k Inquisition 4k Grey Knights 5k Imperial Guard 4k Harlequins 8k Tau
'Failaris' bring some very nice models to the table, aggressors chief among them.
They need to hug cover more than their shield-toting mini brethren, but once ensconsed they are hard to shift (dizzy cannons excepted).
They take mortal wounds like champs, and this is a very common thing in 40K now.
The Boltrifle is all about that -1 hellfire, that can be delivered on the move.
You're not paying 20pt minimum per wound, you're paying half that. They're easy to get up to T5, and that makes a big difference against some classic anti-marine profiles (dizzies, plasma, HBs).
Paired with assault bolters and aggressors they are our most mobile troop unit, short of bikes.
grouchoben wrote: 'Failaris' bring some very nice models to the table, aggressors chief among them.
They need to hug cover more than their shield-toting mini brethren, but once ensconsed they are hard to shift (dizzy cannons excepted).
They take mortal wounds like champs, and this is a very common thing in 40K now.
The Boltrifle is all about that -1 hellfire, that can be delivered on the move.
You're not paying 20pt minimum per wound, you're paying half that. They're easy to get up to T5, and that makes a big difference against some classic anti-marine profiles (dizzies, plasma, HBs).
Paired with assault bolters and aggressors they are our most mobile troop unit, short of bikes.
Oh I have trialed aggressors etc. and failaris do have uses (intercessor screens for mortals etc) but the tele strat is best used for vets I have found (way more output to points and more survivable unless mortal) and biker/vanguard on other half of a 5 man stalker squad so both get objective secured) are super fast and durable.
I just if combine them is ok, but the "hit" of primaris is not there. They are screens at most. Just my expierence/opinion. Each to own
14k Generic Space Marine Chapters 20k Deathwatch 10k Sisters of Battle 3k Inquisition 4k Grey Knights 5k Imperial Guard 4k Harlequins 8k Tau
grouchoben wrote: Assault+aggressor makes a great turn-1 objective grabber imo. Ideally the unit only moves the once, and is then set to hold the objective while spraying bullets all over the shop.
The teleporter squad lands next turn, so is behind in scoring, and when it does land, the aggressor is shooting normally. Whereas the assault squad are nicely in place, and the aggressor is now shooting 12+2d6 each turn, and must be dealt with. Ymmv, but they do good work for me.
Agreed on every point here. The auto bolt rifle aggressor squad is dangerous and mobile right from the very start. I prefer it over the bolt rifle simply because its tactically more flexible and adaptable. While there is some value if you can reliably get the Beacon to land them somewhere great every first turn, groucho is right that you give up a lot to make it work - all for -1 AP on 10 shots. Also, auto bolt rifles look boss.
If your opponent lets you do the beacon strat often and its effective, keep running that unit and take advantage of their mistake until they counter it. To avoid wasting a turn where the unit isn't contributing, I suggest deploying them normally, in cover, or out of line of sight and relying on beacon to get them in the thick of it. Unfortunately, that tactic has a lot of easy counters and is pretty easy to predict. With proper screening they could deny your relic holder good spots to move to, isolate him along with the squad, and limit where you could teleport the squad. Keep in mind that you'll be walking that unit into smites. You're also really susceptible to transports being used as a way to eat overwatch followed by a quick charge from chaff to silence their shooting for a turn.
When you can't beacon them, you have limited mobility unless you advance, but can't fire half the squad's weapons when doing that. You will output less SIA firepower at range than the auto bolt rifles can as well.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/08 18:35:49
"While there is some value if you can reliably get the Beacon to land them somewhere great every first turn, groucho is right that you give up a lot to make it work - all for -1 AP on 10 shots.
If your opponent lets you do this often, keep running that unit and take advantage of their mistake until they counter it."
Could save some points if going super points efficient. Drop Xenophase & power maul for Chainswords and missile launcher for a Stalker/Chainsword (32pts right there)
This is my prime objective grabber (for turn 1, the bikes). All get objective secured. The top 5 are awesome for back line objectives (if have missile can use strat if need). The bottom 5 are super fast (can move 20", depends on stagger, only downside is mortal wounds).
Usually run minimum 2 units of this (depends on points level).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/08 18:47:54
14k Generic Space Marine Chapters 20k Deathwatch 10k Sisters of Battle 3k Inquisition 4k Grey Knights 5k Imperial Guard 4k Harlequins 8k Tau
ImPhaeronWeasel wrote: I’ll definitely try the beacon thing first but I do see the benefit of having a mobile fire base.
A question I have to the tournament players...how do you manage to have WYSIWYG on Deathwatch? Ive seen some tourneys have this as a standart rule
I personally think this is a standard (all my models i play are WYSIWYG) i never play an army against a non mate that is not WYSIWYG. I think proxies confuse people in the heat of a game (I am looking at the model, he has a power fist, oh wait it is a thunder hammer he said wait what did he say?, no power sword.... his melta is a combi-plasma gun no is a stalker what?... im gunna ask again but I have asked 10 times).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/08 18:59:44
14k Generic Space Marine Chapters 20k Deathwatch 10k Sisters of Battle 3k Inquisition 4k Grey Knights 5k Imperial Guard 4k Harlequins 8k Tau
ImPhaeronWeasel wrote: I’ll definitely try the beacon thing first but I do see the benefit of having a mobile fire base.
A question I have to the tournament players...how do you manage to have WYSIWYG on Deathwatch? Ive seen some tourneys have this as a standart rule
I personally think this is a standard (all my models i play are WYSIWYG) i never play an army against a non mate that is not WYSIWYG. I think proxies confuse people in the heat of a game (I am looking at the model, he has a power fist, oh wait it is a thunder hammer he said wait what did he say?, no power sword.... his melta is a combi-plasma gun no is a stalker what?... im gunna ask again but I have asked 10 times).
But where do you get all the StormBolters from Or what if you want to play a different loadout once...
But true I also try to avoid proxying vs. non mates
Admech & Deathwatch
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