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ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:

Spectral Ceramite wrote:

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
I’ll definitely try the beacon thing first but I do see the benefit of having a mobile fire base.

A question I have to the tournament players...how do you manage to have WYSIWYG on Deathwatch? Ive seen some tourneys have this as a standart rule

I personally think this is a standard (all my models i play are WYSIWYG) i never play an army against a non mate that is not WYSIWYG. I think proxies confuse people in the heat of a game (I am looking at the model, he has a power fist, oh wait it is a thunder hammer he said wait what did he say?, no power sword.... his melta is a combi-plasma gun no is a stalker what?... im gunna ask again but I have asked 10 times).

But where do you get all the StormBolters from Or what if you want to play a different loadout once...

But true I also try to avoid proxying vs. non mates

LOL, seriously but I:
I made like 20 storm bolter guys when the codex came out (use norm marine bodies from bitz box, clipped some Death watch arms the bolter off and bought 20 sternguard I think storm bolters from a bitz site i use and then made 15 storm bolter/chainsword, the chain sword was glued onto a clipped off power sword DW arm. Then made 5 Storm bolter/storm shield. Shoulder pad chapters all different as need.

I only use my actual Deathwatch bodies/legs for special models like DW Sergs/Black shields/Stalker rifles/Special Weapons etc. All others get normal marine bodies/legs, DW arms, heads and should pads. All get DW arms and back packs (i bought a gak tonne from bitz sites), they have a lot extra arms per box but. If you have a big collection of norm marines can make a lot from a little and looks uniform.

Edit: Honestly I run a few storm bolter guys, but my plebs I run bolter/chainsword or bolter/stormshield, only if have points left over do I throw on a storm bolter now days.
Edit 2: I have well over 200 DW soldiers so is easy for me to run WYSIWYG, but even in my other armies I always make it a rule (for myself)

Thoughts on combi meltas??

I've got a squad of 5 vets, 3 with combi meltas the others with storm bolters and shields but they cost a disgusting 158 points for a 5 man squad.

I was running combi-melta squads in Razorbacks for a while - 3 of them all told. I thought they were great, but easy to zone out and handle at times.

It was a lot of fun, though I would have preferred to be able to run them in a Corvus if only it wasn't so completely disappointing.

When you could get in melta range, they would always slag something big. Ran them alongside the Terminator melta captain, too.

Still not that points efficient, but a cool unit.

Something super Killy like a DP can easily avoid all game.

Lemondish wrote:
I was running combi-melta squads in Razorbacks for a while - 3 of them all told. I thought they were great, but easy to zone out and handle at times.

It was a lot of fun, though I would have preferred to be able to run them in a Corvus if only it wasn't so completely disappointing.

When you could get in melta range, they would always slag something big. Ran them alongside the Terminator melta captain, too.

Still not that points efficient, but a cool unit.

Melta is terrible. Absolutely terrible. Anything would be better. At least with Combi-Flamers you'll do more hits for more rerolling to wound.

I've run a 5-man combiflamer squad all with them, and it's pretty fun. Still clocks in around 150pts though, with a few stormshields.

As far as combis go, I think Plasma is probably your best bet, but that competes with hellblasters which are a lot better, and allied scions, which are in another class. You can take 14 plasma & 3 plasma pistols spread across 27 models for 510pts, giving you free deepstrike, 5cps, board control, etc. It's really hard to compete with that if you want substantial plasma in your army, imo.

Really, the base cost of a vet is so high that it's hard to stack more on top, and when there's the trusty SB&CS to go to, well, it's a hard sell.

 grouchoben wrote:
and allied scions, which are in another class. You can take 14 plasma & 3 plasma pistols spread across 27 models for 510pts, giving you free deepstrike, 5cps, board control, etc. It's really hard to compete with that if you want substantial plasma in your army, imo.

Do you happen to have a breakdown on that configuration handy?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Lemondish wrote:
I was running combi-melta squads in Razorbacks for a while - 3 of them all told. I thought they were great, but easy to zone out and handle at times.

It was a lot of fun, though I would have preferred to be able to run them in a Corvus if only it wasn't so completely disappointing.

When you could get in melta range, they would always slag something big. Ran them alongside the Terminator melta captain, too.

Still not that points efficient, but a cool unit.

Melta is terrible. Absolutely terrible. Anything would be better. At least with Combi-Flamers you'll do more hits for more rerolling to wound.

Naw, in melta range they outperformed plasma by a noticeable margin. The melta hate hardon you carry is ridiculous, mate.

But you do you. I had fun with the units, so sue me. Obviously won't win any tournaments, but that's a given considering no marine army does. And that's okay.

Lemondish wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Lemondish wrote:
I was running combi-melta squads in Razorbacks for a while - 3 of them all told. I thought they were great, but easy to zone out and handle at times.

It was a lot of fun, though I would have preferred to be able to run them in a Corvus if only it wasn't so completely disappointing.

When you could get in melta range, they would always slag something big. Ran them alongside the Terminator melta captain, too.

Still not that points efficient, but a cool unit.

Melta is terrible. Absolutely terrible. Anything would be better. At least with Combi-Flamers you'll do more hits for more rerolling to wound.

Naw, in melta range they outperformed plasma by a noticeable margin. The melta hate hardon you carry is ridiculous, mate.

But you do you. I had fun with the units, so sue me. Obviously won't win any tournaments, but that's a given considering no marine army does. And that's okay.

It barely does that and it costs 4 more points than Plasma for less flexibility.

Melta is bad and new players shouldn't be building their stuff with Melta until it gets a substantial price cut. Remember that Multi-Meltas outperform lots of stuff in their Melta range, but they're still bad for a reason. I'm not the only Melta hater either. I'd say most of the playerbase does.

Melta is good in specific roles such as a character with a jump pack and combi-melta... it’s got the speed and range to do significant damage plus can be easily screened.

== wrote:[== 728413 10223996 null]Melta is good in specific roles such as a character with a jump pack and combi-melta... it’s got the speed and range to do significant damage plus can be easily screened.

It's 19 points in that scenario for 1 whole shot. Plasma would be more flexible and save you 4 points too. In a low model count army that adds up significantly in the long run.

Sterling191 wrote:

 grouchoben wrote:
and allied scions, which are in another class. You can take 14 plasma & 3 plasma pistols spread across 27 models for 510pts, giving you free deepstrike, 5cps, board control, etc. It's really hard to compete with that if you want substantial plasma in your army, imo.

Do you happen to have a breakdown on that configuration handy?

Sure dude (it's actually 25 models):

2x Tempestor Prime [3 PL, 50pts]: Power axe [5pts], Tempestus Command Rod [5pts]

3x Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 78pts]
. 2x Scion [20pts]: 2x Hot-shot Lasgun [2pts]
. 2x Scion w/ Special Weapon [22pts]: Plasma gun [13pts]
. Tempestor [14pts]: Chainsword, Plasma pistol [5pts]

2x Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [3 PL, 88pts]
.4x Tempestus Scion [22pts]: Plasma gun [13pts]

= 510pts

Efficient or not, I have a blast with my melta terminator captain. Twin meltas and a blast of tempest shells from DS seems to garner an unrealistic amount of attention in my local meta.

Also lets you slap the aquila on a prime, to free up your warlord trait on your Watchmaster too - Nowhere to Hide is really nice, I find. A Watchmaster with Tome of Ectoclades & Nowhere to Hide is a pretty god-mode buffer for 130pts imo, and gives you so much flex in targetting, which can sometimes be a problem with mission tactics. He just *points* and a unit is in trouble.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I love the double melta cap too, he is a scary dude.

 grouchoben wrote:
Also lets you slap the aquila on a prime, to free up your warlord trait on your Watchmaster too - Nowhere to Hide is really nice, I find. A Watchmaster with Tome of Ectoclades & Nowhere to Hide is a pretty god-mode buffer for 130pts imo, and gives you so much flex in targetting, which can sometimes be a problem with mission tactics. He just *points* and a unit is in trouble.

Much appreciated! I run a mixed Cadian/Elysian support group for my Fortis tems, but I want to try and fiddle with it to give the drop teams some more punch. As is they do great coming in and melting lightly armored flanks, but with that much plasma theyd be a fantastic threat to moderate and even heavier armored sections. Potentially dropping from three detachments down to two is also a plus.

As to WL traits, NtH + Tome of Shootius Maximus is my go-to. The tactical flexibility that it gives is absolutely fantastic and I think perfectly embodies the fluffy DW doctrine of adaptive combat.

Me too

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

== wrote:[== 728413 10223996 null]Melta is good in specific roles such as a character with a jump pack and combi-melta... it’s got the speed and range to do significant damage plus can be easily screened.

It's 19 points in that scenario for 1 whole shot. Plasma would be more flexible and save you 4 points too. In a low model count army that adds up significantly in the long run.

Actually you could fire up to three shots at 12 inches. If you only fire melta it is hitting ion a rerollable 2+. Due to the speed of the unit this is excellent for character snipping with a rerollable d6 damage.

== wrote:[== 728413 10224135 null]

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

== wrote:[== 728413 10223996 null]Melta is good in specific roles such as a character with a jump pack and combi-melta... it’s got the speed and range to do significant damage plus can be easily screened.

It's 19 points in that scenario for 1 whole shot. Plasma would be more flexible and save you 4 points too. In a low model count army that adds up significantly in the long run.

Actually you could fire up to three shots at 12 inches. If you only fire melta it is hitting ion a rerollable 2+. Due to the speed of the unit this is excellent for character snipping with a rerollable d6 damage.

You do understand the math for that single shot though?

I am feeling slightly gutted about my little 5 man combi meltas unit which took me 2 weeks to paint now after seeing all the hate..

Gw messed up melta real bad.

The main reason why plasma is good for SM in general is Hellblasters.

Rogerio134134 wrote:
I am feeling slightly gutted about my little 5 man combi meltas unit which took me 2 weeks to paint now after seeing all the hate..

I have occasionally run combi-meltas on my Vet srgs, BS and 1 or 2 more (plus other equipped guys) in a Teleportarium unit or 2. However, I find if dropping a jump pack captain near a Vet squad or 2 coming in from teleport running combi-plasma's, a frag or 2 (plus other equipped guys) are the better option and they give more versatility.

Running Vet squads in Corvus's or razorbacks (If you want to run them vehicles) same deal. Plasma is just better (and if don't overcharge gives more shots and versitiliy if shooting hordes etc). I run comb-melta's/thunder hammers on my jump captains, they are awesome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you are running a 5 man vet squad (or any amount unit), my philosophy is you never want to run without some meat shields. My rule of thumb is every squad needs atleast 1 guy with storm shield and boltgun/storm bolter or stalker depends on unit, and 1 guy with Chainsword and boltgun/storm bolter or stalker depends on unit. Though a lot of these squads will be all one of these weapons, same applies to teleportarium squads/hit squads etc.

Would it be ok to use Eisenhorn as a „Watch Captain“ without any special stuff (TH/SS Jump Pack etc.) or would you call bs?

I think Eisenhorn is a cool model PLUS hes Ordo Xenos but I dont really want to use him and his rules...

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Lemondish wrote:
I was running combi-melta squads in Razorbacks for a while - 3 of them all told. I thought they were great, but easy to zone out and handle at times.

It was a lot of fun, though I would have preferred to be able to run them in a Corvus if only it wasn't so completely disappointing.

When you could get in melta range, they would always slag something big. Ran them alongside the Terminator melta captain, too.

Still not that points efficient, but a cool unit.

Melta is terrible. Absolutely terrible. Anything would be better. At least with Combi-Flamers you'll do more hits for more rerolling to wound.

Naw, in melta range they outperformed plasma by a noticeable margin. The melta hate hardon you carry is ridiculous, mate.

But you do you. I had fun with the units, so sue me. Obviously won't win any tournaments, but that's a given considering no marine army does. And that's okay.

It barely does that and it costs 4 more points than Plasma for less flexibility.

Melta is bad and new players shouldn't be building their stuff with Melta until it gets a substantial price cut. Remember that Multi-Meltas outperform lots of stuff in their Melta range, but they're still bad for a reason. I'm not the only Melta hater either. I'd say most of the playerbase does.

Sure, you're not the only one - your just the only one that can't separate choices made because someone finds them FUN and choices made because they're GT level tournament players it some such nonsense.

Slagged a Castellan with them yesterday. Couldn't do that with plasma.

We're in a thread about DW ffs. Get over yourself.

So because the thread is about Deathwatch we aren't supposed to talk about the best choices? Give me a break.

Also nobody cares you got lucky ONCE with an army sorely lacking in AT using one of the most inefficient anti-tank guns. Melta is one of the most requested weapons for a buff for a reason.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
Would it be ok to use Eisenhorn as a „Watch Captain“ without any special stuff (TH/SS Jump Pack etc.) or would you call bs?

I think Eisenhorn is a cool model PLUS hes Ordo Xenos but I dont really want to use him and his rules...

You'd probably need to do a little more to make him more of a Space Marine.

Plus I heard his rules aren't bad for an Inquisitor.

Inceptors in intercessor squads yay or nay?? I've got 2 large primaris blobs in my army

One is 5 X intercessors, 2 hellblasters 2 inceptors
The other is 5 intercessors 5 hellblasters

The primaris apothecary and watch master tagging along behind them to buff them up.

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Inceptors in intercessor squads yay or nay?? I've got 2 large primaris blobs in my army

One is 5 X intercessors, 2 hellblasters 2 inceptors
The other is 5 intercessors 5 hellblasters

The primaris apothecary and watch master tagging along behind them to buff them up.

(grain of salt: throrycrafting only, as I’m still painting up my DW)

It seems like they are money in the bank. The ability to fall back and still shoot means you are almost never going to be tarpitted. And for a shooty army, that’s really nice. The other guys you can add to the squad seem situationally nice, the Inceptors strike me as mandatory.

Plus they also shoot things.

Plasma is flexible, but the game doesn't often reward flexibility, it rewards specialization. Melta will do work if used with 3 or more models, and paying just 2pts more for a combi with SIA gives a little flexibility. I wouldn't shoot both at the same time except in Overwatch. I've used melta a lot on my Ravenwing (not many other options in a pure list for AT duty) and they have performed well. If a unit is equipped with melta, you'd better have a specific target for it.

 bullyboy wrote:
Plasma is flexible, but the game doesn't often reward flexibility, it rewards specialization. Melta will do work if used with 3 or more models, and paying just 2pts more for a combi with SIA gives a little flexibility. I wouldn't shoot both at the same time except in Overwatch. I've used melta a lot on my Ravenwing (not many other options in a pure list for AT duty) and they have performed well. If a unit is equipped with melta, you'd better have a specific target for it.

For every two Melta, you pay just a little extra for three Plasma Guns. It isn't even just about flexibility, it's also about number of shots. You either get 3 shots outside 12", or 6 inside 12" compared to 2. Melta pays a lot for a single shot with a lot of AP, and when lots of targets have an Invul or ways to mitigate damage, you can't rely on DD6 to do anything.

Play vs drukhari or tau and tell me melta is worth a gak.