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Yeah, it needs to be a lot more cheap, but at least it's less bad than before.

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Have been watching mini guerrilla wargaming on YouTube and he has a lovely Deathwatch army but loses every single game. Does anyone actually take a corvus? They seem pointless to me even though I have one.

I only take mine against friends that use eldar and I bring it with the infernum halo launcher. Makes me -2 to hit by all their flying vehicles. Im actually bringing one tonight against my buddy who uses dark eldar and harlequins.

I'll be taking one to a tournament next week. I love the model, but it's a terrible flyer really. You are paying a lot for the transport capability. The points reduction was not enough if it is not to be fixed rules-wise. Rules wise, it needs to be more accurate and have better missiles.

Yeah I also love the model but am seriously considering dropping it for a repulsor due to the high amount of primaris for sloggers I have in my army.

Corvus's (i think look cool) but on the table top not so much (they are crap).

I plan an army around 3 things.

Castle (or support fire from line,back field objective holders)
Objective grabbers (guys from line can get mid field objectives or/and screen castle)
Support elements (guys that drop in to support whatever need, or for this army major hitters/teleport strat)

You mix your anti-armour and anti-infantry where think appropriate.

If can do all 3, solid army (hard with DW to get a castle and mid objective grabbing units but can do especially with the survivability of a DW marine (ss) over a normal marine and include a termie (2+), if play on that).

GMG army. I have watched Ash a lot and he is a cool guy... but his DW army is not that good (have watched all his DW batreps, everytime am sigh). He runs what he has not what is good i think.


EDIT:

This is how I play. Some will play another style (the mass hit, or mass castle or other extremes or variants etc). Each to own, find what want and do it (is the fun of the system). However, either way Crovus's just don't fit in... I think they need Power of the Machine Spirit (this for cost CA18, would make them viable)

I'm more of a fluff/casual player, so I do run the Corvus quite often. But yes, in terms of performance on the tabletop it is quite bad. 90% of the time my Corvus dies turn 1. It's also just so frustrating that our super-elite flyer doesn't get PotMs.

Speaking of fielding sub-par units:

I really like Terminators and just ordered a box. How would you equip a squad of 5? Just cheap as possible with PS, SBs? I probably don't need even more Stormbolters. So maybe a few mixed weapons for tactical flexability?

 Causalis wrote:
I'm more of a fluff/casual player, so I do run the Corvus quite often. But yes, in terms of performance on the tabletop it is quite bad. 90% of the time my Corvus dies turn 1. It's also just so frustrating that our super-elite flyer doesn't get PotMs.

Speaking of fielding sub-par units:

I really like Terminators and just ordered a box. How would you equip a squad of 5? Just cheap as possible with PS, SBs? I probably don't need even more Stormbolters. So maybe a few mixed weapons for tactical flexability?

Not really much options for termies either cheapish SB & PS/PM/PA or expensive TH/SS or the awesome looking models:

Cyclone missile, Storm bolter and Power weapon or Assualt cannon and Power weapon.
Or the better looking:
Cyclone missile, Storm bolter, Meltagun and Power Fist or Assault cannon, Meltagun and Power Fist.

If want usability go the first guys, if going power level go the last.

I mean Cyclone/SB/PW termie is still 69pts (2x Missile vets is 68pts) but maybe a thing there now especially in stalker squads etc.

I am the wrong person to ask. I love terminators...

I have some Cyclone/SB/PF/MG and more Assault Cannon/PF/MG and then some SB/MG/PF and a few Captains Combi-Melta/PF/MG...

I never use these models except when play power or in large points games.. but I love them...


EDIT:
If you ordered a box of normal terminators, you can't equip PW, you will have a lot of power fists (look on bits sites for power weapons). You will also need the DW shoulder pads from their upgrade sprue (unless ordered DW terminators). You will also need to order alternate chapters for the other shoulder pad (I found shapeways good for this). Normal marine shoulder pads are to small.

Not cheap just for a 5x DW termie squad (in comparison) you need to get: 5x man termie squad, a 5x Termie DW Shoulder pads, 5x Different legion Shoulder Pads for Termies and then weapons on top

EDIT 2:

A cheap way to get some good terminator is order a box of GK paladins/terminators (just equip them how want and paint them DW colours, I have done for a few of mine and look good (granted had a gak tone of DW Termie shoulder pads), still have to bitz or shapeways the alternate shoulder but look good)

terminators are a tough one, I love them too. It's a shame the assaut cannon didn't drop, I have 2 AC terminators...may never use them. I do use cheap SB/PM in my Kill team sqds.

Looking at my unit already built, it's a sgt w TH/SS, 2 AC/PF, 2 SB/PM. Just not a good mix really, lol. I'll use them for fun maybe someday. Or maybe I'll throw a couple extra termies in a kill team. I like using the TH/SS guy as a possible character too.

 DoomMouse wrote:
Comp list idea with a deathwatch primary then the usual stuff...

Watch master
Watch captain with TH and JP

5X 9 vets - 8 with SB and SS, one VV with TH

AM loyal 32

Raven castellan

Cos everything important deserves a 3++

Similar to the list i have been running for the past few months.

However i suggest a few changes:

- loyal 32 and Raven Castellan stay same if you can add in a morter team or 2
- DW:
I run 4 maxed units. I suggest going 4 and not 5. 3 units DS and the 4th moves forward and then gets beconed with the relic on one Watch Capt. I now (post CA) run 2 terminators, 2 bikes, 1 vanvet (twin pistols) and 5 SB/SS vets. This unit, auto passes Moral, 3++, disengages combat and shoots as well as charges, 2 additional wounds, 2+5+, and mortal wound tanking (4), moves fast.

the 5th unit sort of gets left behind in the dust. The loyal 32 and Castellian hold rear objs while the 4 units play forward. It all functions as a very solid Hammer and Anvil army

I combo the above with 2 Hammer/SB/JP watch capts.

 zedsdead wrote:

 DoomMouse wrote:
Comp list idea with a deathwatch primary then the usual stuff...

Watch master
Watch captain with TH and JP

5X 9 vets - 8 with SB and SS, one VV with TH

AM loyal 32

Raven castellan

Cos everything important deserves a 3++

Similar to the list i have been running for the past few months.

However i suggest a few changes:

- loyal 32 and Raven Castellan stay same if you can add in a morter team or 2
- DW:
I run 4 maxed units. I suggest going 4 and not 5. 3 units DS and the 4th moves forward and then gets beconed with the relic on one Watch Capt. I now (post CA) run 2 terminators, 2 bikes, 1 vanvet (twin pistols) and 5 SB/SS vets. This unit, auto passes Moral, 3++, disengages combat and shoots as well as charges, 2 additional wounds, 2+5+, and mortal wound tanking (4), moves fast.

the 5th unit sort of gets left behind in the dust. The loyal 32 and Castellian hold rear objs while the 4 units play forward. It all functions as a very solid Hammer and Anvil army

I combo the above with 2 Hammer/SB/JP watch capts.

I honestly won't put too many other biker / Terminator models in there. Imo, the most generic killteam squad have 1 Termi, biker and vanvet each is enough, the rest should all be Veteran with SS and SB.

If not for the T5 and fast moving, or the 2+ save, I may not consider Biker or Terminator in DW have that high value. Vanvet is better for fallback and shoot, as the real unique thing in Deathwatch is the special ammo which is in shooting.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 zedsdead wrote:

 DoomMouse wrote:
Comp list idea with a deathwatch primary then the usual stuff...

Watch master
Watch captain with TH and JP

5X 9 vets - 8 with SB and SS, one VV with TH

AM loyal 32

Raven castellan

Cos everything important deserves a 3++

Similar to the list i have been running for the past few months.

However i suggest a few changes:

- loyal 32 and Raven Castellan stay same if you can add in a morter team or 2
- DW:
I run 4 maxed units. I suggest going 4 and not 5. 3 units DS and the 4th moves forward and then gets beconed with the relic on one Watch Capt. I now (post CA) run 2 terminators, 2 bikes, 1 vanvet (twin pistols) and 5 SB/SS vets. This unit, auto passes Moral, 3++, disengages combat and shoots as well as charges, 2 additional wounds, 2+5+, and mortal wound tanking (4), moves fast.

the 5th unit sort of gets left behind in the dust. The loyal 32 and Castellian hold rear objs while the 4 units play forward. It all functions as a very solid Hammer and Anvil army

I combo the above with 2 Hammer/SB/JP watch capts.

I honestly won't put too many other biker / Terminator models in there. Imo, the most generic killteam squad have 1 Termi, biker and vanvet each is enough, the rest should all be Veteran with SS and SB.

If not for the T5 and fast moving, or the 2+ save, I may not consider Biker or Terminator in DW have that high value. Vanvet is better for fallback and shoot, as the real unique thing in Deathwatch is the special ammo which is in shooting.

to each his own... however i have found that the squads have a tendency to lack durability when tanking small arms fire such as bolter or lasgun fire. So the second Terminator is there mostly for the additional 2 wounds of 2+. across 4 squads its been worth it. Regarding the 2nd bike. I was on the fence about it but having played it a bunch of times i found it helped out a few things. first it allowed the unit to move further then before as well as i now have 2 models i instantly can toss 4 mortal wounds on. The bike is key in the unit to jump back in combat to either prevent getting shot in my opponents turn or it locks them in place.

Instead of the corvus what would people run to get a bit of survivability and speed in the list?

With the points drops in CA I can afford a couple more veterans and swap out my black Star for a repulsor which would save one of my big Fortis kill teams from having to deploy on the table and keep them safe as well as having a very cool model in the table.

Only thing I don't want to do is drop the corvus only to replace it with another useless unit.

I'm a little excited to try a 155pt Redemptor dread in deepstrike. That took a huge points drop.

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Instead of the corvus what would people run to get a bit of survivability and speed in the list?

So far I used the deep strike stratagem for "mobility".
Last game I dropped a Leviathan Dread and an Intercessor/Aggressor Squad to good effect and save on the walking.

Infantry I use is mostly Primaris and I don't buy the Repulsor so deep strike is my only option anyway.

The Corvus is weak in its primary role, imo.

The only thing it can bring is a) a big reduction in your drops and b) a decent gun platform if it doesn't move.

So that's how I use it now. It gets the infernum so that on turn 1 flyers are -2 to hit it, if I lose initiative. It drops into hover mode immediately and benefits from watchmaster buffs. Its troops disembark turn 1, benefitting from that extra movement, and it functions as AT. 210pts, or 220pt with the hurrican bolters (optional in this role). Not cheap or cutting edge, but the best use I've found for it.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 zedsdead wrote:

 DoomMouse wrote:
Comp list idea with a deathwatch primary then the usual stuff...

Watch master
Watch captain with TH and JP

5X 9 vets - 8 with SB and SS, one VV with TH

AM loyal 32

Raven castellan

Cos everything important deserves a 3++

Similar to the list i have been running for the past few months.

However i suggest a few changes:

- loyal 32 and Raven Castellan stay same if you can add in a morter team or 2
- DW:
I run 4 maxed units. I suggest going 4 and not 5. 3 units DS and the 4th moves forward and then gets beconed with the relic on one Watch Capt. I now (post CA) run 2 terminators, 2 bikes, 1 vanvet (twin pistols) and 5 SB/SS vets. This unit, auto passes Moral, 3++, disengages combat and shoots as well as charges, 2 additional wounds, 2+5+, and mortal wound tanking (4), moves fast.

the 5th unit sort of gets left behind in the dust. The loyal 32 and Castellian hold rear objs while the 4 units play forward. It all functions as a very solid Hammer and Anvil army

I combo the above with 2 Hammer/SB/JP watch capts.

I honestly won't put too many other biker / Terminator models in there. Imo, the most generic killteam squad have 1 Termi, biker and vanvet each is enough, the rest should all be Veteran with SS and SB.

If not for the T5 and fast moving, or the 2+ save, I may not consider Biker or Terminator in DW have that high value. Vanvet is better for fallback and shoot, as the real unique thing in Deathwatch is the special ammo which is in shooting.

With the new price point of Terminators, they make excellent sponges for AP-0 weapons actually. I'd recommend taking a look again.

 Causalis wrote:
I'm more of a fluff/casual player, so I do run the Corvus quite often. But yes, in terms of performance on the tabletop it is quite bad. 90% of the time my Corvus dies turn 1. It's also just so frustrating that our super-elite flyer doesn't get PotMs.

Speaking of fielding sub-par units:

I really like Terminators and just ordered a box. How would you equip a squad of 5? Just cheap as possible with PS, SBs? I probably don't need even more Stormbolters. So maybe a few mixed weapons for tactical flexability?

I've been running my deathwatch contingent with a whole bunch of terminators (my army is pretty cobbled-together, and I had the 10 terminators that came with Space Hulk on hand so they went in to the army) and I've had fairly decent success with them actually.

Look at a terminator as a 9-point upgrade over a veteran to get the 2+ W2 5++ (good deal) who is forced to take at least a power weapon (usually not worthwhile).

They add a couple more cookies to mixed vet squads if you're deep striking them, namely immunity to morale and the ability to hop back to your teleport homers so you can fire again if you get tied up. So if you only have 5 total, my first instinct would be to use them like

-one gets a promotion to Terminator Captain, who is now like 5pts more expensive than jump captain and wants the same wargear
-split off the remainder as onsie-twosie addons to your deepstriking/corvusing vet squads.

In my list I end up running one squad of five basic fist/SB termies with an assault cannon thrown in there, the two assault termiantor sculpts added onto my assault veteran squad, and the remaining termies scattered thru the list with the sword/sb sculpt as my captain.

Mostly that's due to the space hulk kit coming with fixed loadouts. if i could do all pmaul/sb I probably would.

Got my first post-CA game in against a Tau Longstrike + Hammerhead list and felt pretty good. Played at 1200 points so not the biggest game, but enough to get a feel for the new loadouts.

Lost turn 1, but I normally deploy defensively anyway and we tend to play with a lot of terrain, so Tau didn't have much in the way of firing lanes. What shots they could get off either pinged off layered stormshields, or safely off cover. Mostly just maneuevered on my turn, but was able to snipe out most of his pathfinders with my Stalker Vets, negating the bulk of his infantry heavy weapons and markerlights.

Turn 2 rolls in and he gets his hammerheads in position and lights me up, but between stormshields and overkill he doesn't degrade my line too badly (I play almost exclusively infantry, so the lack of single hard targets played in my favor). Drop my two fortis teams on him, each of which drops a hammerhead and severely dents another (one team was absolutely on fire, its Hellblaster cadre alone put out 20 damage in the drop). MLs from the Vet teams put down the rest of the gunships, then it devolved into mopup of the remaining Fire Warriors and infiltrator teams as he scrambled for objectives to try and win out on VPs.

Still need a lot more playtime with the new numbers, but I'm liking what I'm seeing so far.

I'm loving terminators as bullet catchers in my squads, certain armies can really struggle with the 2+, orks in particular. The cyclone is also nicely priced now plus they look cool :-)

I usually take my Corvus as I love he model and it adds much needed mobility but unless it's near the WM it just isn't reliable enough, with the drop in points I'm gonna try it with the twin lascannon as anti-tank is the main thing I struggle with in the army.

I take the Corvus pretty often. It's not very good, but it's a solid distraction piece and lets you make the most of Frag Cannons. It's kind of all or nothing and if you're opponent gets some lucky rolls it can die without accomplishing anything and tank a game pretty hard. I used to run the Auspex, but it only gives you a couple extra hits, where the Halo tends to help you survive longer against things that threaten it.

The lack of PotMS is pretty much the entire problem. Not sure why it lacks it, but it does. It's bombs are also a waste of time in most situations. If you're not using it for a Frag Cannon bomb I'd use a Razorback instead, or just rely more on the teleportarium.

I think there's a lot of value in putting termis in Vet squads. The primary drawback of doing so is simply that they generally encourage you to take the Corvus to deliver them....

 WisdomLS wrote:
I'm loving terminators as bullet catchers in my squads, certain armies can really struggle with the 2+, orks in particular. The cyclone is also nicely priced now plus they look cool :-)

I usually take my Corvus as I love he model and it adds much needed mobility but unless it's near the WM it just isn't reliable enough, with the drop in points I'm gonna try it with the twin lascannon as anti-tank is the main thing I struggle with in the army.

Yea the Termie in the Vet squad is great. Its why i run 2.

Has anyone been running Dreads in DW ?

Last night i ran:

2 Jump Capts
4 10 man Vet squads Temie,VanVet,Bike, 7 SB/SS vets
3 Venerable Dreads TLC/ML
3 Mortis Dreads w/2 THBs

The list worked really well. The Ven Dreads popped Small vehicles while the Mortis dreads took out Chaf and T5 bike units. Vets DS in and 1 relocated with the Beacon. 2x moved out of combat via beacons and regrouped in my deployment. I really enjoyed playing the dreads. Plus Wisdom of the Ancients helps them out a bunch

DW Dreads are pretty great. Pretty much every time I add a vehicle, I consider replacing it with a Dread instead. Benefiting from most of our attack bonsues makes a pretty huge difference. My standard backfield is a Mortis with 2x TLC and a Leviathan. Strongly considering more after the buffs.

Running 2 Vendreads this weekend with TLC/MLs. Also have 1 stormshield character that may take the Dominus Aegis if I feel that I could use the invuln save for them and the Corvus Turn 1.


I'm still trying to decide my 2nd HQ choice (1st is a JP TH/SS capt). Currently it's a Libby with stave/bp, but I don't think the psychic powers are that great. I know there will be Knights, AM, Drukhari, SOB, so no real psychic threat at the moment. Going with the Corvus sqd, I think it would be better boosting their shooting (which rules out the cheap Chaplain, although that would yield me another vet) which means a second captain (not enough points for a WM)
So with 98pts to spare, I could take a Capt w combi-melta, power sword for some more AT. Of course the SB is always good, allowing me to take a Xeno blade for example.

Thoughts?

I find the reroll difference in the Watch Master pretty substantial if you can fit it in. Particularly when it comes to overwatch and/or high volume of fire things like Aggressors, you can do some crazy things.

 bullyboy wrote:
Running 2 Vendreads this weekend with TLC/MLs. Also have 1 stormshield character that may take the Dominus Aegis if I feel that I could use the invuln save for them and the Corvus Turn 1.


I'm still trying to decide my 2nd HQ choice (1st is a JP TH/SS capt). Currently it's a Libby with stave/bp, but I don't think the psychic powers are that great. I know there will be Knights, AM, Drukhari, SOB, so no real psychic threat at the moment. Going with the Corvus sqd, I think it would be better boosting their shooting (which rules out the cheap Chaplain, although that would yield me another vet) which means a second captain (not enough points for a WM)
So with 98pts to spare, I could take a Capt w combi-melta, power sword for some more AT. Of course the SB is always good, allowing me to take a Xeno blade for example.

Thoughts?

The Aegis DOES work for Dreads, huh? You better screen with some Infantry or Skitarii though.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Running 2 Vendreads this weekend with TLC/MLs. Also have 1 stormshield character that may take the Dominus Aegis if I feel that I could use the invuln save for them and the Corvus Turn 1.


I'm still trying to decide my 2nd HQ choice (1st is a JP TH/SS capt). Currently it's a Libby with stave/bp, but I don't think the psychic powers are that great. I know there will be Knights, AM, Drukhari, SOB, so no real psychic threat at the moment. Going with the Corvus sqd, I think it would be better boosting their shooting (which rules out the cheap Chaplain, although that would yield me another vet) which means a second captain (not enough points for a WM)
So with 98pts to spare, I could take a Capt w combi-melta, power sword for some more AT. Of course the SB is always good, allowing me to take a Xeno blade for example.

Thoughts?

The Aegis DOES work for Dreads, huh? You better screen with some Infantry or Skitarii though.

Heck, it even works for the Corvus and my Razorback. It's any Deathwatch model, not just infantry and bikes like Azrael's little helm.

On second thoughts though, I might just keep the Libby around. There is something to be said for casting Might of Heroes on a TH captain in conjunction with the Castellan of the Black Vault and Malleus Doctrine when facing Knights. That's a legitimate threat to put ~16 wounds on one in a combat phase.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Running 2 Vendreads this weekend with TLC/MLs. Also have 1 stormshield character that may take the Dominus Aegis if I feel that I could use the invuln save for them and the Corvus Turn 1.


I'm still trying to decide my 2nd HQ choice (1st is a JP TH/SS capt). Currently it's a Libby with stave/bp, but I don't think the psychic powers are that great. I know there will be Knights, AM, Drukhari, SOB, so no real psychic threat at the moment. Going with the Corvus sqd, I think it would be better boosting their shooting (which rules out the cheap Chaplain, although that would yield me another vet) which means a second captain (not enough points for a WM)
So with 98pts to spare, I could take a Capt w combi-melta, power sword for some more AT. Of course the SB is always good, allowing me to take a Xeno blade for example.

Thoughts?

The Aegis DOES work for Dreads, huh? You better screen with some Infantry or Skitarii though.

I think the aegis only works turn 1 if we go first. Because the wording says if we didn't move in our movement phase then we confer the 5+ invul. So either hope to go first or weather the storm.

Seeing them in someones list above, am I right in thinking that the FW mortis dreads didn't drop in points for some reason? Seems silly and makes them pretty bad in comparison to a standard with ML +

 WisdomLS wrote:
Seeing them in someones list above, am I right in thinking that the FW mortis dreads didn't drop in points for some reason? Seems silly and makes them pretty bad in comparison to a standard with ML +

Standard mortis was untouched, the contemptor variant dropped a smidge.

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Running 2 Vendreads this weekend with TLC/MLs. Also have 1 stormshield character that may take the Dominus Aegis if I feel that I could use the invuln save for them and the Corvus Turn 1.


I'm still trying to decide my 2nd HQ choice (1st is a JP TH/SS capt). Currently it's a Libby with stave/bp, but I don't think the psychic powers are that great. I know there will be Knights, AM, Drukhari, SOB, so no real psychic threat at the moment. Going with the Corvus sqd, I think it would be better boosting their shooting (which rules out the cheap Chaplain, although that would yield me another vet) which means a second captain (not enough points for a WM)
So with 98pts to spare, I could take a Capt w combi-melta, power sword for some more AT. Of course the SB is always good, allowing me to take a Xeno blade for example.

Thoughts?

The Aegis DOES work for Dreads, huh? You better screen with some Infantry or Skitarii though.

I think the aegis only works turn 1 if we go first. Because the wording says if we didn't move in our movement phase then we confer the 5+ invul. So either hope to go first or weather the storm.

It works if you go second, you just can't move in your movement phase. You don't get punished just because you haven't had a movement phase.