DEATHWATCH in 8th

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**LunarSol**

Sterling191 wrote:
godardc wrote:

How do they compare to SM 2.0 ?

Badly. Our SIA is largely comparable, and in some cases inferior, to doctrine bonuses + bolter discipline. Our deep strike shenanigans have been replicated in various forms by several chapters, and without access to the new Primaris Vanguard units we're badly missing particular niche skills like forward deployment and highly focused anti-character capacity. Combine with some of the PA2 shenanigans and regular marine infantry can push the envelope on survivability nearly as hard as Deathwatch can.

The big advantage of DW currently is the Vet package compares fairly well while still being able to be mixed in with other Imperium options.

**Galef**

Quick question:

If building a Fortis unit specifically to be majority T5, which ratio of Aggressors to Inceptors would you take.
Context: this unit will be "disembarking" from a Drop Pod. Technically only the Watchmaster will be inside the Pod, but it will have the Beacon to bring them to him once dropped

So given that the unit will be upclose Turn 1 (but not quite flamer range) Should I take more Aggressors (flamers), or Inceptors (plasma).
I want at least 2 of each, but what should the 5th T5 model be?

I am leaning towards 3 Aggressors since I will also have a Librarian with Veil of Time in the Pod with the WM, so the Fortis unit can pew-pew and then charge with a reroll. 3 Aggressors would be nasty in melee, especially with WM rerolls.
Or should I not bank on melee and get more Shooting with 3 Inceptor in the unit?

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**Slayer-Fan123**

You only need the one Inceptor to really keep the bonus. Aggressors would be better to spam. I would say 4/1, but you can get away with 3/2. Aggressors all the way for me.

**Galef**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You only need the one Inceptor to really keep the bonus. Aggressors would be better to spam. I would say 4/1, but you can get away with 3/2. Aggressors all the way for me.

I'm thinking along the same lines. But the reason I'm wanting at least 2 Inceptors is in case 1 dies.
I'm investing a lot for the unit to be shunted forward, kill stuff in shooting, then charge. 2 Plasma Inceptors with WM for rerolls are enough to nearly kill a big target. But Overcharging could still risk one of them dying still.

So I need to be able to use them to their max potential with less risk of losing the fall back and shoot bonus

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**JNAProductions**

How would one die unless you chose to kill it?

**Lemondish**

JNAProductions wrote:
How would one die unless you chose to kill it?

Overcharge mishaps slay the model firing the weapon.

**JNAProductions**

Right, makes sense.

**Galef**

Lemondish wrote:
JNAProductions wrote:
How would one die unless you chose to kill it?

Overcharge mishaps slay the model firing the weapon.

Bingo. I may need that S8 D2. Also having 2 mitigates bad d3 shot rolls. More likely to get a good average over all 4 guns.

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**Slayer-Fan123**

I missed that you want to do Plasma. I don't think it makes that much a difference in my post though.

**Galef**

Posted this in the Army list section:

Galef wrote:
__Deathwatch Battalion___+5CP

Watch Master – Lord of Hidden Knowledge (Beacon Angelis)
Librarian w/ Force Axe, Combi-melta, Veil of Time & Psychic Fortress
Drop Pod w/ Storm bolter

4 Intercessors w/ Bolt rifles & Sgt w/ Stalker Bolt Rifle
3 Aggressors w/ Flamestorm gauntlets
2 Inceptor w/ Plasma exterminators

5 Intercessors w/ Auto bolt rifles (inc. Sgt w/ Power fist)
1 Aggressor w/ Flamestorm gauntlets
1 Inceptor w/ Plasma exterminators
1 Hellblaster w/ Assault Plasma

5 Intercessors w/ Auto bolt rifles (inc. Sgt w/ Power fist)
1 Aggressor w/ Flamestorm gauntlets
1 Inceptor w/ Plasma exterminators
1 Hellblaster w/ Assault Plasma

__Custodes Command___+1CP (-1CP Open the Vaults)

Shield Captain on Dawneagle (Auric Aquilas) w/ Salvo Launcher
Allarus Terminator Shield Captain w/ Castellan axe
Allarus Terminator Shield Captain w/ Castellan axe

---------------------------------------------------------------------1497 pts/ 9CP (8CP)

So the goal of this list is to have as few models as possible but still be a Battalion, all models have multiple wounds, no vehicles and represent a Marine Strike Force that plays like the fluff.
Also be fairly melee centered.

Tactics: The WM and Librarian go in the Pod. The T5 Fortis team deploys out of LoS. The 2 Termie Shield Captains will start in Reserve.
Turn 1, the Pod drops, the Characters get out, the WM uses the Beacon to call the T5 team right in front
The Dawn Eagle Captain follows behind. The 2 other teams advance forward and shoot

I know this list is far from tourney competitive, but do you think it stands a change against other 1500pt casual lists? Lots of quality shots thanx to SIA, Plasma & Flamers, plenty of decent melee with reliable delivery methods. Everything but the 2 DW Characters and Pod is Obsec
As long as I have 1CP, I can ensure that I will never give up WL and the 3 Shield Captains can always "Should the Mantle" if my WM dies

What do you think?

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**Sterling191**

Definitely weird stuff happening with CA2019 printing for Deathwatch. I honestly dont trust most of the unit section as its just blatantly wrong, and there's weird oddities in the weapon section (Assault Bolters for instance are still pre-CSM 2.0 cost for instance).

Still, some good stuff. The SIA tax is gone, and Stalker Boltguns are 1 point apiece. *If* we get 12ppm Vets thats a 75 point MSU cover camping rifle unit behind a stormshield wall.

**Slayer-Fan123**

I actually haven't seen anyone talk about Deathwatch leaks.

**Galef**

I've seen a video breakdown. Vets are still 14ppm, but storm bolters are down to 2ppm like everyone else. The SIA tax is indeed gone as even the Primaris bolters are all -1ppm. Same cost as regular Marines now.

Watch Master is now 115pts. Too. The list posted above is now 45pts cheaper on the DW stuff alone and I think another 6pts cheaper for the Custodes.

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**Sterling191**

Again, I dont trust anything in the Kill Team or Fortis Kill Team entry at present. It's exceptionally obvious there are misprints there that will need to be sorted out with FAQs.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Galef wrote:
I've seen a video breakdown. Vets are still 14ppm, but storm bolters are down to 2ppm like everyone else. The SIA tax is indeed gone as even the Primaris bolters are all -1ppm. Same cost as regular Marines now.

Watch Master is now 115pts. Too. The list posted above is now 45pts cheaper on the DW stuff alone and I think another 6pts cheaper for the Custodes.

-

Now I gotta ask: Shotguns, did they FINALLY go down?

**Sterling191**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Now I gotta ask: Shotguns, did they FINALLY go down?

Yup. All of the Deathwatch specific weapons went down, some considerably. Shotguns and Stalker Boltguns are 1 point, Infernus Heavy Bolters are 14 points, Frags are 20, Xenophase blade is 5.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Sterling191 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Now I gotta ask: Shotguns, did they FINALLY go down?

Yup. All of the Deathwatch specific weapons went down, some considerably. Shotguns and Stalker Boltguns are 1 point, Infernus Heavy Bolters are 14 points, Frags are 20, Xenophase blade is 5.

Shotguns aren't a bad buy at 1 point actually.

However Storm Bolters are now only 2 so...

**WisdomLS**

Just went through CA2019 and pretty happy with the drops, all our weapon choices are now a little more on par with standard options, hell even the heavy thunder hammer is usable now!

One slight worry is that by taking away the SIA tax it leads me to believe we may not be getting all the fancy upgrades that are coming to marines like doctrines.

**ikeulhu**

WisdomLS wrote:
Just went through CA2019 and pretty happy with the drops, all our weapon choices are now a little more on par with standard options, hell even the heavy thunder hammer is usable now!

One slight worry is that by taking away the SIA tax it leads me to believe we may not be getting all the fancy upgrades that are coming to marines like doctrines.

Good to hear the poor old HTH finally got some love.
Your concern about the SIA tax mirrors mine as well, although they also could just reapply a tax if they feel the need if they ever do get around to giving us a supplement style upgrade (which would actually surprise me in all honesty).

**bullyboy**

Ooh, how much are HTH now?

**WisdomLS**

18, only 2 more than a normal TH so quite reasonable.

**LunarSol**

The bigger deal is probably just that the TH on characters is so much more expensive. It's not really a buff to the HTH, its just not as grossly outclassed as it was when you could put the regular one on a captain.

**Sterling191**

LunarSol wrote:
The bigger deal is probably just that the TH on characters is so much more expensive. It's not really a buff to the HTH, its just not as grossly outclassed as it was when you could put the regular one on a captain.

This. Aggressor powerfists and VanVet HTHs are what we're gonna have to make do with in the short term while we're stuck in planned obsolescence.

**Slayer-Fan123**

A Vanguard detachment of 15 Vanguard Vets w/ Heavy Hammers is how much now?

Might be fun to spam depending on how popular Iron Hands stay and how long Primarchs and Knights stick around.

**Sterling191**

525 if my napkin math is accurate, not including HQ. Incidentally, exact same cost as TH/SS loadout.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Sterling191 wrote:
525 if my napkin math is accurate, not including HQ. Incidentally, exact same cost as TH/SS loadout.

Eh probably not worth it but still tempting nevertheless

**LunarSol**

Dumb question; is there a reason the Bolt Rifle costs a point on an Intercessor Watch Sergeant in Battlescribe?

**Sterling191**

LunarSol wrote:
Dumb question; is there a reason the Bolt Rifle costs a point on an Intercessor Watch Sergeant in Battlescribe?

Because BattleScribe is wrong.

**LunarSol**

Sterling191 wrote:
LunarSol wrote:
Dumb question; is there a reason the Bolt Rifle costs a point on an Intercessor Watch Sergeant in Battlescribe?

Because BattleScribe is wrong.

Cool. I just saw a list I had was randomly 2001 points and spent the last little bit trying to figure out what was wrong.

**Hesselhof**

What units you would play in DW mono competativ tourney list?

I want to make 2020 for me the DW tourney year =P and i need some advice

Short Edit: I don´t want you guys to write me a list^^ i just want to discuss and to get the DW to the limit and get the most out of these boys^^