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Nifty. I have Greyfax, Eisenhorn and Coteaz as fun bits I was using for my Sisters/DW/GK army in 8th that doesn't really work anymore. Maybe I'll start with Eisenhorn and see how he works out before switching to Coteaz.

I'm not counting on getting Phobos stuff. It would be nice, but GW seems determined to keep scouts out of our hands.

Deathwatch never had scouts because they were green recruits, not because Deathwatch has some kind of "no scouting" policy.
The Phobos guys are just as trained up as any other primaris trooper, and we already have access to Reivers, so I really don't see any reason why we wouldnt get the rest on the line. They fit with the tacticool DW aesthetic arguably more than any other kits.

If Deathwatch are now a different flavor of Space Marines from the codex, there is a very good chance we have access to the full arsenal. That would include scouts.

 McGibs wrote:
Deathwatch never had scouts because they were green recruits, not because Deathwatch has some kind of "no scouting" policy.
The Phobos guys are just as trained up as any other primaris trooper, and we already have access to Reivers, so I really don't see any reason why we wouldnt get the rest on the line. They fit with the tacticool DW aesthetic arguably more than any other kits.

Indeed. Without going on another of my rants about the subject, Phobos are a natural fit for Deathwatch forces and if GW manages to pretzel themselves into continuing to exclude them despite folding DW into the Marine + Supplement umbrella I legitimately have no fething clue what the design team is smoking, injecting and inhaling all at the same time.

I agree, I'd just not be surprised either.

It'll be fun to figure out what SIA is best with these crazy bolt carbines. Provided SIA gets added to these units and doesn't change in some way (big assumption).

Lemondish wrote:
It'll be fun to figure out what SIA is best with these crazy bolt carbines. Provided SIA gets added to these units and doesn't change in some way (big assumption).

I would be highly surprised if Infiltrators and Incursors get SIA.

Sterling191 wrote:

Lemondish wrote:
It'll be fun to figure out what SIA is best with these crazy bolt carbines. Provided SIA gets added to these units and doesn't change in some way (big assumption).

I would be highly surprised if Infiltrators and Incursors get SIA.

Yeah, I suppose so. Sadly, I think without SIA most units in DW are weaker than their codex counterparts.

Its so hard to commit to anything until we see how we are integrated into the main book.

I forsee us having 3-4 different killteam combinations

Veterans, Phobos, Intercessors. The fourth team I can see being a "melee intercessors" unit with bladeguard and the like(pretty much all the units from indomitus)

Pretty much not even touching my DW until I see how they look in new book.

I am going to assemble things around the (what I think is pretty safe) assumption that the indomitus units will becomes 3-6 or 5-10 relatively.

I'd actually be surprised if DW get access to EVERYTHING in the main codex. It'll probably be more like when the 8th Indexes dropped and a future DE supplement will have a page listing thr specific datasheets they can use from the main codex.
I'd expect this to be true for the SW BA and DA supplements too.

Lemondish wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

Lemondish wrote:
It'll be fun to figure out what SIA is best with these crazy bolt carbines. Provided SIA gets added to these units and doesn't change in some way (big assumption).

I would be highly surprised if Infiltrators and Incursors get SIA.

Yeah, I suppose so. Sadly, I think without SIA most units in DW are weaker than their codex counterparts.

It honestly makes no sense for some parts of the army to have SIA and some not. Same with some weapons benefitting fully from SIA (assault and heavy bolt varieties) while others just partially benefit (rapid fire ones due to bolter discipline). Units and weapons are not costed to reflect that mismatch and it's quite frankly counterintuitive and unfluffy.

I understand it's a hassle to balance. I get it. But then rework the whole thing instead of applying several overlapping quick fixes.

The main offender is hellfire. It's too strong. Make it +1 to wound instead and remove the limitations.

Rapid fire bolt rifles intercessors with current hellfire would be horrifying. Same with hellfire aggressors. If you change that ammo type to +1 to wound instead, it becomes MUCH more akin to what some chapters already get, and I hope that then allows GW to apply this rule army wide and without restrictions.

I'd be much happier that way and the codex would have more DEPTH. Even if it maybe would be weaker. I don't care. I want my army to be fun.

bort123 wrote:


It honestly makes no sense for some parts of the army to have SIA and some not. Same with some weapons benefitting fully from SIA (assault and heavy bolt varieties) while others just partially benefit (rapid fire ones due to bolter discipline). Units and weapons are not costed to reflect that mismatch and it's quite frankly counterintuitive and unfluffy.

I understand it's a hassle to balance. I get it. But then rework the whole thing instead of applying several overlapping quick fixes.

The main offender is hellfire. It's too strong. Make it +1 to wound instead and remove the limitations.

Rapid fire bolt rifles intercessors with current hellfire would be horrifying. Same with hellfire aggressors. If you change that ammo type to +1 to wound instead, it becomes MUCH more akin to what some chapters already get, and I hope that then allows GW to apply this rule army wide and without restrictions.

I'd be much happier that way and the codex would have more DEPTH. Even if it maybe would be weaker. I don't care. I want my army to be fun.

Making Deathwatch "Vanilla Marines but with souped up Doctrines" isnt adding depth. And if you think for a second that making a Codex that already struggles weaker is a good thing for the long term, I genuinely dont know what to say.

Its not about balance, its just they do things without really thinking about it as a whole. Then slap on something that might solve one problem, but doesnt have a comprehensive look at everything it affects

I think Krak rounds are about on par with Hellfire. Not nearly as good, but the range buff is important.

Vengence roundsjust need a bit more to be worth taking. Give it a STR buff, even at the trade of an AP might be worth it.

Dragonfire just needs a total rework. That was true before, but doubly so with the terrain revamp.

If Dragonfire was a complete benefit of cover negation, it'd go a long way towards making it a viable pick for 9th.

Speaking of cover negation, I'm giving serious thought to moving Nowhere to Hide into the arsenal. Per the rules appendix in the BRB, rules that specifically remove the benefit of cover, not just the benefit to their saving throws, explicitly negate all cover penalties. Being able to strategically turn off Dense, Heavy and Light cover all at once seems like it could damn well swing a critical moment.

I think Nowhere to Hide may easily be the best Warlord trait available at the moment.

Just in case anyone was holding their breath for Veterans to be functional in Crusade, the PL changes dropped this morning and absolutely fethed that hope to death.

Sterling191 wrote:
Just in case anyone was holding their breath for Veterans to be functional in Crusade, the PL changes dropped this morning and absolutely fethed that hope to death.

They got cheaper, didn't they? Not that it really matters since their PL is based on being a unit of Frag Cannons.

 LunarSol wrote:

They got cheaper, didn't they? Not that it really matters since their PL is based on being a unit of Frag Cannons.

Went down by 1, from 9 to 8.

Happy about the new faq changes, feels less Gamey now.

Still not commiting to anything until we get our codex hopefully near October.

Just gonna build and paint.

What FAQ stuff specifically? I didnt see anything that disproportionately affected Deathwatch.

As an aside, the PL and Wound characteristic changes for Terminators are *very* interesting, and (in crusade at least) provide a welcome and fluffy alternative to Eradicators.

Maybe this has been covered, I was reading over the Deathwatch FAQ for 13/07/2020 and noticed that they put up the interessors, argressors and Inceptor to 3 wounds and 3 attacks. is that correct? or are they still just the 2? I can't see and mention of this anywhere else so I feel like i'm reading this incorrectly.

*Page 73 – Intercessors, Aggressor, profileChange Wounds characteristic to 3. Change Attacks characteristic to 3

Agamembar wrote:
Maybe this has been covered, I was reading over the Deathwatch FAQ for 13/07/2020 and noticed that they put up the interessors, argressors and Inceptor to 3 wounds and 3 attacks. is that correct? or are they still just the 2? I can't see and mention of this anywhere else so I feel like i'm reading this incorrectly.

*Page 73 – Intercessors, Aggressor, profileChange Wounds characteristic to 3. Change Attacks characteristic to 3

It's worded a little bit unusually because it's changing the profile of the Aggressor and Inceptor models on the Intercessor datasheet (which is the Fortis Kill Team datasheet). The Gravis models are three wounds apiece. The Intercessor is still only two wounds.

If the datasheet printed on the plastic kit assembly instructions is any indication of how unit profiles are being updated for the 9th ed Marine codex, than Terminators are going to 3Ws. And Power swords are +1S.
Could be interesting for DW units.

VanVets going to 2W, pretty strongly implying regular Vets going to 2W. And the changes to melee weapons on top of that.

That's...gonna be a thing.

Sterling191 wrote:
VanVets going to 2W, pretty strongly implying regular Vets going to 2W. And the changes to melee weapons on top of that.

That's...gonna be a thing.

It's certainly looking like all non-Primaris Marines are getting +1W, or at least the Veterans.
It would be neat if they left Tac Marines at 1W, but gave the Sgt 2W just like Eldar Exarchs.

Although for DW, 2W Vets will be an interesting choice. Probably the default over Primaris teams.
Just imagine 2W, Storm shield Storm bolter Vets. Nasty.

 Galef wrote:

Although for DW, 2W Vets will be an interesting choice. Probably the default over Primaris teams.
Just imagine 2W, Storm shield Storm bolter Vets. Nasty.

Honestly, in a 2W marine equation, everything needs to be re-evaluated. Stalker Intercessor teams are going to be worth their weight in gold. Wounding 2s, AP3, Flat 2 damage, that's terrifying to Primaris right there.

The Storm Bolter Vet costs makes a LOT more sense in the context of a 2W statline. It's a sidegrade to the ABR intercessor (more shots close in but worse off at range and cant advance and fire), but not a liability while taking fire any more.

Sterling191 wrote:

 Galef wrote:

Although for DW, 2W Vets will be an interesting choice. Probably the default over Primaris teams.
Just imagine 2W, Storm shield Storm bolter Vets. Nasty.

Honestly, in a 2W marine equation, everything needs to be re-evaluated. Stalker Intercessor teams are going to be worth their weight in gold. Wounding 2s, AP3, Flat 2 damage, that's terrifying to Primaris right there.

The Storm Bolter Vet costs makes a LOT more sense in the context of a 2W statline. It's a sidegrade to the ABR intercessor (more shots close in but worse off at range and cant advance and fire), but not a liability while taking fire any more.

I agree if you're comparing Marines to other Marines. But there's other armies out there occasionally.

And you can always add a few special weapons to Vets for the extra damage.
All I'm saying is that 2W vets become the defacto all-rounder and push Primaris teams into very niche roles. Roles that Vets can still compete in with the right loadout.

Although the Assault bolt rifle dropping to the same cost as the Stalker makes more sense now.

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