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 Leth wrote:
So I finally got my codex and I think people are sleeping on the Phobos warlord trait allowing for 3 units to re-deploy.

I wish the Phobos captains weapon wasn’t “meh” or he had the options t swap and I would take him, however Phobos librarian and two infiltrator units seems like a solid investment, especially since we will be able to reposition after finding out if we go first or second.

the redeploy from this trait is before we know who starts, it is kinda gamble but still nice

Ahhh you are right, boo.

Still could see some use to prevent enemy units from getting the middle of the board and then pulling back to safety, but might not be worth it.

 Leth wrote:
Ahhh you are right, boo.

Still could see some use to prevent enemy units from getting the middle of the board and then pulling back to safety, but might not be worth it.

I think it isn't worth it. If it were a stratagem like the Ultramarine one, then it would be situationally useful since the opportunity cost command points is much less than devoting a Warlord trait to the effort.

With the new Codex structure we can take up to three different WLTs now. It’s not *that* large an opportunity cost. Most of the basic ones are pretty terrible.

Losing the post-roll off function hurts though.

Sterling191 wrote:
With the new Codex structure we can take up to three different WLTs now. It’s not *that* large an opportunity cost. Most of the basic ones are pretty terrible.

Losing the post-roll off function hurts though.

I suppose that's fair, but that's a CP cost on top of a Warlord trait right now. Maybe worth it very situationally, but even with just from the Phobos list there are more impactful options, IMHO.

Impactful possibly, but for 1 cp it can make it much easier to win a game well in excess of its cost.

Movement and board control are what win games now, not killing and smash hero hammer.

 Leth wrote:
Impactful possibly, but for 1 cp it can make it much easier to win a game well in excess of its cost.

Movement and board control are what win games now, not killing and smash hero hammer.

Fair enough. Any suggestions on how to make the best use of it and for which units? Are the results based entirely on the mental games you're playing with your opponent here? I haven't had a chance to play a game with the new codex yet.

Neither have I sadly, no games of 9th yet but I have watched a bunch of battle reports and practice deployed a few times.

My initial thoughts were either a Phobos captan(depending on our relics) or librarian and two infiltrator units.

Idea being that if your opponent has infiltrators/out of deployment zone deployment? Then you can put your guys in the middle to zone them out. They re-deploy after deployment has finished.

Not being after first turn is determined really limits its use. a lot of the movement abilities you want to block is post first turn being decided.

One of the big uses I can see for it is re-deploying your infiltrators based on where your opponent deploys for area denial, line breaker, etc. So much varies based on the deployment zone type and the secondaries that you take.

One thing I did find is that using one unit of infiltrators and one unit of Servitors I can reserve block the entire short side of the board and 23 inches or so into the long side. Really amazing for reserve and area denial. Next I need to see how it all fits in regards to the different objective placements and seeing how much it takes to block the entire half of the board with different deployments while also being in range of objectives. If I can get the measurements down in practice it will save a LOT of time setting up during the actual games.

Welp, one way or another we'll have our answers in about a week:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/10/25/sunday-preview-brothers-in-arms/

Sterling191 wrote:
Welp, one way or another we'll have our answers in about a week:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/10/25/sunday-preview-brothers-in-arms/

I like the dice a lot, but the Combat Patrol is a big question mark for me. Not that those kits aren't useful - I would have had a mighty big use for this type of box back when I was running those auto boltrifle Intergressor units. Today, these seem awkward given what we've seen from Index Deathwatch and Primaris vis a vis Kill Team design and Special Issue Ammunition. It's a savings, but only once given how much of that savings is eaten by characters you won't want repeats of. Will have to wait to see the Supplement to determine if new collectors will find the other units worth considering.

It's probably worth picking up just for the Apothecary right now. Also I'll be curious to see how they do the shoulder pads. I suppose 2 of the existing frames?

 LunarSol wrote:
It's probably worth picking up just for the Apothecary right now.

Eh, it's easy enough to convert up the Helix Adept parts from the Infiltrator kit to make a full blown Apoth. Im mostly amused that the entire box cannot utilize SIA, nor can you even begin to make a kill team out of any of the contents.

 LunarSol wrote:
Also I'll be curious to see how they do the shoulder pads. I suppose 2 of the existing frames?

I dont know about that. Each currently comes with 10 non-Gravis pads, which would leave 8 unallocated (plus the extra Gravis/Terminator pad). That's uncharacteristically generous by GW standards.

Sterling191 wrote:

I dont know about that. Each currently comes with 10 non-Gravis pads, which would leave 8 unallocated (plus the extra Gravis/Terminator pad). That's uncharacteristically generous by GW standards.

When the faction first launched the Terminator kit came with 3 sprues of the things. Personally, I'm hoping it comes with a new Primaris upgrade frame that has a third large pad, but I think they'd be selling them with this release if that was the case.

 LunarSol wrote:

When the faction first launched the Terminator kit came with 3 sprues of the things.

While true, that was before the era of $55 for 5 Aspect Warriors.

 LunarSol wrote:

Personally, I'm hoping it comes with a new Primaris upgrade frame that has a third large pad, but I think they'd be selling them with this release if that was the case.

You and everyone else looking at converting up the new Gravis line, which part of me thinks is precisely why they wont do it (so you have to shell out for more).

 LunarSol wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

I dont know about that. Each currently comes with 10 non-Gravis pads, which would leave 8 unallocated (plus the extra Gravis/Terminator pad). That's uncharacteristically generous by GW standards.

When the faction first launched the Terminator kit came with 3 sprues of the things. Personally, I'm hoping it comes with a new Primaris upgrade frame that has a third large pad, but I think they'd be selling them with this release if that was the case.

There was the Imperial Fists battle force box that included a Primaris upgrade sprue (the one with the misprint on the power fist) that I don't think was available separately for quite some time. I also don't think they did much to promote it in that box since I remember most of the discussion was about how it was a surprise.

Sterling191 wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

Personally, I'm hoping it comes with a new Primaris upgrade frame that has a third large pad, but I think they'd be selling them with this release if that was the case.

You and everyone else looking at converting up the new Gravis line, which part of me thinks is precisely why they wont do it (so you have to shell out for more).

Upgrade frames... this is the area I have my eye on the most, and am totally prepped to be disappointed by the most (potentially more than SIA). Throughout 8th, each of the 1st founding chapters had their own primaris upgrade frames, and these were used to coincide with giving primaris additional wargear options (all the intercessor sergeant options originated from the frames). Given that DW are now in the main dex, and are getting the standard issue supplement treatment, my very wishlisty hope is that we also get the upgrade frame treatment for each of our new teams/unique weapons:

Gravis/Terminator shared shoulder pads kit - heavy intercessors are a match made in heaven for the infernus HB, we could also do with a part for a certain fist/melta combi weapon on our terminators.
Fortis/Proteus shared shoulder pads kit - intercessor sergeants have a tradition of getting all the melee weapon goodness, heavy hammers/xeno blades spring to mind.
Spectrus shoulder pads kit - Reivers with shotguns. Rool of cool demands this happens. Would be good to see a proper phobos scale shoulder pad too I guess.

The total lack of any hint of anything to do with this in the new combat patrol box though makes me think my wishlist will never be more than wishful thinking though.

Insularum wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

Personally, I'm hoping it comes with a new Primaris upgrade frame that has a third large pad, but I think they'd be selling them with this release if that was the case.

You and everyone else looking at converting up the new Gravis line, which part of me thinks is precisely why they wont do it (so you have to shell out for more).

Upgrade frames... this is the area I have my eye on the most, and am totally prepped to be disappointed by the most (potentially more than SIA). Throughout 8th, each of the 1st founding chapters had their own primaris upgrade frames, and these were used to coincide with giving primaris additional wargear options (all the intercessor sergeant options originated from the frames). Given that DW are now in the main dex, and are getting the standard issue supplement treatment, my very wishlisty hope is that we also get the upgrade frame treatment for each of our new teams/unique weapons:

Gravis/Terminator shared shoulder pads kit - heavy intercessors are a match made in heaven for the infernus HB, we could also do with a part for a certain fist/melta combi weapon on our terminators.
Fortis/Proteus shared shoulder pads kit - intercessor sergeants have a tradition of getting all the melee weapon goodness, heavy hammers/xeno blades spring to mind.
Spectrus shoulder pads kit - Reivers with shotguns. Rool of cool demands this happens. Would be good to see a proper phobos scale shoulder pad too I guess.

The total lack of any hint of anything to do with this in the new combat patrol box though makes me think my wishlist will never be more than wishful thinking though.

Phobos shotguns might well be enough to keep me on Deathwatch by itself. Adding Infernus HB options, and/or changing the rules for frag cannons / shotguns in general, would also be pretty great.

Unfortunately I don't see any of this happening. I'm waiting until the supplement drops, but without significant changes from the index the likelihood is that I'll be dropping DW simply because they no longer exist (in a recognisable/fluff way). Probably change to an army with some actual character. But I'll wait for the supplement. Give GW a chance to surprise me.

I know we're still in the pre-codex WTF phase, but Goonhammer dropped a new Hammer of Math this morning about the updated power weapon profiles:

https://www.goonhammer.com/hammer-of-math-power-weapons/

I personally hadnt run the numbers, but my gut was leaning towards LCs from the get go. Nice to know I wasnt completely off base. A sleeper surprise that I hadnt clocked was the Relic Blade change. Going to S7 and flat 2 damage, while not incurring an accuracy malus makes it super reliable, both in basic units but also on characters (the latter screams for something like Imperiums Sword to push it to that sweet sweet S8 break point).

I really do think there's play for 5-man Vet squads with massed LCs, as well as standalone VanVet squads zooming around the table carving things up.

That Vet squad idea - you mean massed dual LC, or DW Bolter + LC?

The Black Shield with dual LC seems so insane and I love it.

Ancible wrote:
That Vet squad idea - you mean massed dual LC, or DW Bolter + LC?

Bolter plus LC. 115 points for the squad.

Ancible wrote:

The Black Shield with dual LC seems so insane and I love it.

The huge problem with Black Shields right now is that they require a minimum squad size of 6. They can no longer replace a Vet in a 5-man team, nor can they go into Proteus kill teams. It's fething idiotic.

Sterling191 wrote:

Ancible wrote:
That Vet squad idea - you mean massed dual LC, or DW Bolter + LC?

Bolter plus LC. 115 points for the squad.

Ancible wrote:

The Black Shield with dual LC seems so insane and I love it.

The huge problem with Black Shields right now is that they require a minimum squad size of 6. They can no longer replace a Vet in a 5-man team, nor can they go into Proteus kill teams. It's fething idiotic.

While I agree that is a problem, I'm thinking it isn't all that big of one given the Doctrine bonus for DW is apparently combat squad (I'm only half serious).

The whole Index is a complete mess but one way or the other we'll get clarity in about a week.

As for that 115 point Vet loadout - I love it.

At this point the answer to all my problems seems to be Combat Squad it.

Are the Vanguard Vets with dual a Inferno Pistol and the upgraded Power sword still possible? Because the new melee rules look like they would be beast mode with the DW Vanguard vets....

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Are the Vanguard Vets with dual a Inferno Pistol and the upgraded Power sword still possible? Because the new melee rules look like they would be beast mode with the DW Vanguard vets....

Two pistols and a power sword?

I didn't even know this was a thing. And there's no model for it that I know of, so the "no model no rule" will kick in and my guess is that no this isn't possible.

I have never heard of being able to have 3 weapons on the model.

Because it's an illegal loadout.

I'm sure there have been examples in 8th where messing around with wargear replacing ended up with some model (probably a sergeant) ending up with 3 pieces of gear in two hands... but nothing for deathwatch I can recall.

edit: and some may have been faq'd, and none were intentional I'd bet

Niiru wrote:
I'm sure there have been examples in 8th where messing around with wargear replacing ended up with some model (probably a sergeant) ending up with 3 pieces of gear in two hands... but nothing for deathwatch I can recall.

edit: and some may have been faq'd, and none were intentional I'd bet

To my knowledge, the only avenue for this in 8th for Deathwatch was the Powerfist with an aux meltagun (exclusive to Terminators thanks to the Salamander laddie from KT:Cassius). That wargear loadout has been removed for 9th (at least in the Index so far, we'll see what the big book says on the matter shortly).

The Rules preview has been posted




Automatically Appended Next Post:
If we were hoping for changes to the Kill Team rules, I don't think that is likely to occur since they pretty much took verbatim from the Index. I think that means many of these Kill Teams are only useful because of Combat Squad.

The Doctrine bonus being full control over the Doctrine rotation is kind of interesting and I honestly need much more time to personally wrap my head around the power value here. My initial impression is that I like it because it comes off as interesting and potentially tactical, but experience has shown that some fun things like that on paper aren't always as valuable in an actual match.

A whole new discipline is something I dared hope for, and I like that it exists. The ability to reduce the potential impact of massed melee with the Neural Void skill is neat, but the secondary part seems a little difficult to gain benefit out of in a way that your opponent can't work around pretty easily. Maybe I'm misjudging the opportunity cost.

The Strats are the same little flavourful things we are used to from 8th, but I dislike this change to the Aeldari one. I liked the Intercepting Volley Stratagem from the last Codex more.

Yes, the preview is meh (as they always are).

The relic is not bad. FNP 4+ is potent.

But the overall impression is that the index is not something different and "in between" but rather a preview of certain parts of the actual codex.

I hope to be wrong, especially when it comes to SIA. EDIT: apparently I am wrong, pic attached from WH40k Fb page I guess