Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Leth wrote:
I mean, having the choice opens up a lot of options for how you build your army. A lot of heavy weapons are now in consideration as well considering that we can better optimize when it applies. I can see heavy infernus or frag cannons having a place if they apply first or second turn.

Not to mention it opens up stuff like turn 2 tempo assault strategies.

Anything that doesn't specifically reward loading up on identically-equipped, uniform ranks of primaris riflemen I suspect will be labeled garbage by Sterling.

My usual list features next to no Heavy weapons, so being able to start in Tactical, switch to Assault turn 2,and then choose between tactical and assault turn 3 is extremely impactful.

And yeah. Absolutely hilarious to label most superdoctrines as "hot garbage" when they are literally a thing 90% of the factions in the game still don't have when you play against them.

Sisters of Battle wasn't the right faction to model with Karen haircuts.

the_scotsman wrote:

Anything that doesn't specifically reward loading up on identically-equipped, uniform ranks of primaris riflemen I suspect will be labeled garbage by Sterling.

It's amusing that that's precisely the kind of build this stupidity favors. But go on, do tell me how I play my Deathwatch. This will be fun. Especially when I'm on record in this thread and elsewhere as a ride or die Veteran player. Peddle your anti-Primaris fetish someplace else.

Saw this floating around.

These are actually pretty good and I can see circumstances to use all of them.

Nowhere to hide took a slight nerf (cant negate dense cover), and with the new Dragonfire it's a bit redundant for SIA toting units, but it's a solid force multiplier for other units.

Vigilance is likewise a slightly nerfed old school Tome, but on a Captain it allows them to make a unit super-reliable against a target that just has to die. - EDIT: initially this seems a little underwhelming, but in combination with the new KT Specialisms it allows a character to power up any Kill Team to their full wound reroll every turn. Super good in that context.

Optimized Priority shores up a massive weakness of forces that go heavy on big Kill Teams, and I see that one being a near auto take.

Likewise Ties allows you to pretty reliably own an objective against anything other than a big honking horde army (full KTs counting as 20 models? Yes please).

I'm going to miss the old +1D for Castellan, but I get wanting to limit that from being able to double dip. A freebie piece of SIW isn't a bad trade off.

Paragon is both superbly fluffy, and also *really* good. Letting us cherry pick WLTs from any other marine army is awesome and likely allows for serious list specialization. - EDIT: not quite as powerful as I initially thought as it only allows us to crib from the prime Codex and not supplements, but that's still a *lot* of options to pick from.

I have more, enjoy (wait)

Paragon of the chapter is going to be a blast. Brilliant Strategist in combo with Mission Tactics has some real appeal.

Kill Team Specialisms?

OH MY.

25-35 points for a always on reroll wounds against a specific FoC? I'm gonna need a minute here.

Looks to be like old mission tactics, but you pay for it instead. I can dig it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You know, I don't care how powerful this codex is. Fluff wise, they got me.

 bullyboy wrote:

You know, I don't care how powerful this codex is. Fluff wise, they got me.

I'm gonna agree with this. The ability to build each unit to do a specific job out of basic lads is what got me into Deathwatch, and they're nailing it. Would love to see the full KT and SIA rules (for the latter specifically how it's doled out to non-Proteus units), but this is definitely enough to get me hyped.

Yeah, the new specialisms could be brutal.

I am thinking of inceptors with bolters and aggressors, always rerolling wounds vs. a FoC


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have also seen the psychic doctrine, but the original post on Fb was taken down before I could take a screenshot

Noticing some points weirdness on a few things in the codex, but otherwise it seems to line up squarely with the Index.

Stalker Boltguns are 5 for Vets, but 2 for Bikers.

Storm Bolters are back down to 2 for Vets.

Frags are up to 15.

Fists are at 8 and hammers 12 for Vets (unsure if this is different from the Index).

Apparently you can only have one KT of each Specialization. Curious how its going to interact with Combat Squads.

 LunarSol wrote:
Apparently you can only have one KT of each Specialization. Curious how its going to interact with Combat Squads.

It's quite possibly confirmation bias, but I think the last few lines of the left column in the Specialism image speaks to that.

Yeah, I can see that.

Frags going up to 15 kills them even more, they were useless at 10...

Unless they've been buffed, which we obvs don't yet know.

Weird a melta is still 5.

Niiru wrote:
Frags going up to 15 kills them even more, they were useless at 10...

Unless they've been buffed, which we obvs don't yet know.

Weird a melta is still 5.

Frag is same which makes that 5pt difference from Index really weird (they were passable at 10pts, but not 15pts)

Niiru wrote:

Weird a melta is still 5.

All the non-combi special weapons are 5, which makes some semblance of sense in the algorithm driven 9th edition points environment (even if it overcosts the standalone flamer).

 bullyboy wrote:

Frag is same which makes that 5pt difference from Index really weird (they were passable at 10pts, but not 15pts)

In fairness we havent seen the Frag profile for the codex yet. I doubt anything has changed to justify the points increase, but it's data we're missing all the same.

 bullyboy wrote:

Niiru wrote:
Frags going up to 15 kills them even more, they were useless at 10...

Unless they've been buffed, which we obvs don't yet know.

Weird a melta is still 5.

Frag is same which makes that 5pt difference from Index really weird (they were passable at 10pts, but not 15pts)

How do you know this? Have they shown weapon profiles?

The cost differences are weird to the point where I would assume the Index values are part of an errata to correct them.

Niiru wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

Niiru wrote:
Frags going up to 15 kills them even more, they were useless at 10...

Unless they've been buffed, which we obvs don't yet know.

Weird a melta is still 5.

Frag is same which makes that 5pt difference from Index really weird (they were passable at 10pts, but not 15pts)

How do you know this? Have they shown weapon profiles?

yep, saw a leaked image (one of many) and has it the same as FAQ. Looks like SIA will be only on same weapons too with a strat to be able to use for other bolt weapons (but changes them to hvy 1).

Hopefully someone managed to screenshot a few more of these leaked images. Particularly interested in the psychic tree, and the SIA strat... Making it a strat isn't terrible (depending on cost) but making them heavy 1 is pretty bad.

Problem i see with the new kill team specialisations is that it seems they're picked during army listing, so you could pay points for an anti-elite one and then face armies with zero elites.

Though this then makes sense as to why the troops and hq ones cost more, as most opponents will have those.

Niiru wrote:

Though this then makes sense as to why the troops and hq ones cost more, as most opponents will have those.

If it follows the same order as the progression in the chart, the +35 ones should be Heavy Support and Elites. Troops, Fast Attack, HQs and Aquila would then be +25.

what gets me is that it still appears that a spectrus kill team still can't use concealed positions if it contains a reiver model......which seems really dumb. Hopefully there is something that changes that in an FAQ otherwise you'll never see a Reiver in a spectrus kill team.

 bullyboy wrote:
what gets me is that it still appears that a spectrus kill team still can't use concealed positions if it contains a reiver model......which seems really dumb. Hopefully there is something that changes that in an FAQ otherwise you'll never see a Reiver in a spectrus kill team.

I mean you could still combat squad them, and have the reiver in a backfield squad that can then prevent enemy obsec taking home objectives... Maybe. Probably better than taking an actual full reiver squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I've not ever tried this myself, but if the images were taken down from the leak page... Wouldn't they still be in your temp browser cache folder? So... Couldn't the people that saw them but didn't manage to screenshot still recover the temp files?

In theory this is right, but as I say I've never had the need to try it.

Here you go,

Kind of surprised I'm sourcing all this stuff, I was hoping someone else had more lol

Cryogenicman wrote:
Here you go

Again, I think pretty reasonable across the board (with two huuuuuuge standouts).

Resonance is purpose built for a blender unit, while making them relatively scary to charge.

Fortified is a point and click Disgustingly Resilient. Auto. Take.

Void we've already discussed. Niche, but can allow for some tactical shenanigans.

Cleanse I dont expect to see much, but against horde armies it's gonna do the business if you get close enough.

Mantle is amaaaaazing for Action based objective units. Slap that on a pod of Servitors or Company Vets farming you VPs and they're effectively untouchable from a distance.

Severance is gonna be hilarious for sniping out support auras.

If I had to pick for a non-specialist list, Mantle and Fortified are probably the front runners, but all of them have their utility.

Sterling191 wrote:

Cryogenicman wrote:
Here you go

Again, I think pretty reasonable across the board (with two huuuuuuge standouts).

Resonance is purpose built for a blender unit, while making them relatively scary to charge.

Fortified is a point and click Disgustingly Resilient. Auto. Take.

Void we've already discussed. Niche, but can allow for some tactical shenanigans.

Cleanse I dont expect to see much, but against horde armies it's gonna do the business if you get close enough.

Mantle is amaaaaazing for Action based objective units. Slap that on a pod of Servitors or Company Vets farming you VPs and they're effectively untouchable from a distance.

Severance is gonna be hilarious for sniping out support auras.

If I had to pick for a non-specialist list, Mantle and Fortified are probably the front runners, but all of them have their utility.

Agree on the xenopurge discipline: two standouts and others more niche (but definitely fluffy).

Would now be cool to see the stratagems, which can be the real game-changer. But I guess it is now a matter of hours if not minutes

Cripple Strongholds and Cull Order are fantastic secondaries (the former more than the latter IMO, but the latter is still quite good).

An automatic 15vp if you can selectively deplete your enemy, and a 6vp per turn action that can only be stopped once started by killing the unit doing said action.

Absolutely tasty stuff right there.

Dominus Aegis on a captain close to an Indomitus kill team grants them a 5+ invuln, then by all means give them a 5+++ from the psychic discipline. Makes them super tanky.

 bullyboy wrote:
Dominus Aegis on a captain close to an Indomitus kill team grants them a 5+ invuln, then by all means give them a 5+++ from the psychic discipline. Makes them super tanky.

Also synergizes well with a Libby rocking the 5++ aura. You'd need to burn a relic to get both disciplines on one psyker (Tome of Malcador), but its doable.

Still looks like Blackshields are excluded from Proteus teams unfortunately. Semi-hoping for an FAQ on that front but dont really expect one.