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 Marius Xerxes wrote:
With DW not being able to have Razorbacks with Twin Heavy Flamers, I've been looking at using Crusader Squads (Ministorum) and picking up Immolators.

If you do this, don't forget to roll your d6 and see if you get an act of faith each turn. Crusader squads from Adeptus Ministorum can use Acts of Faith, which can allow them to gain an extra movement or fighting phase-- quite useful.

Am I mistaken when I calculate that a single Terminator with Cyclone and his stock Fist is 104 points?

You are correct, that's one expensive model.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
You are correct, that's one expensive model.

I have two Terminators that I built with that loadout last year, and I know I used plastic glue so I won't be able to take the fists off and replace them with swords. The Terminators are pretty much the only models I didn't magnetize because I didn't plan on changing their loadouts

Thank you though. I'll see if I can find some cheapo Terminators that I can convert, I have plenty of the upgrade sprues.

 Melissia wrote:
If you do this, don't forget to roll your d6 and see if you get an act of faith each turn. Crusader squads from Adeptus Ministorum can use Acts of Faith, which can allow them to gain an extra movement or fighting phase-- quite useful.

Yep. I mentioned that in my post.

We can now take most / all primaris.

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Downloads/K3ns3JDOGE2asjf/Primaris-week-4/IORF435R4_ENG_Primaris_Marines_Release_04_July_29th.pdf

When did the Primaris Marines get so cheap?

So I tried running a more vanilla Space Marine style list (no mixed Kill Teams, just pure squads) and honestly it performed better for me than trying to do mixed Kill Teams.

Of course, I did get luckier dice rolls at some pretty key parts of the game so I'm not 100% if it was just the dice liking me tonight or if it really is a better list-writing style, but what do the other Deathwatch players think?

List was:
1 Watch Master
5 Man vets with frag cannons, shotguns, a chainsword and a combi-melta
5 Man vets with infernus heavy bolter, power sword + bolter, power maul + combi-melta, power axe+storm shield, stalker heavy bolter
5 man terminator squad with 3 TH/SS, a CML, A heavy flamer+PF w/ melta, and an assault cannon+chain fist
Twin Lascannon Razorback with HK missile and storm bolter
Corvus Blackstar with twin assault cannons, twin blackstar rocket launchers, and infernum halo launcher
5 man strike squad of Grey Knights with 5 pairs of falchions and 5 storm bolters
GK librarian with GoI and Purge Soul

vs Thousand Sons

Alpha strike with the Grey Knights + terminator squad deepstriking in saw both Exalted Sorcerers dead before my opponent had a turn, but my force couldn't withstand the counterattack and was withered down over the next 4 turns, with his Thousand Sons terminators being notably untouched during the entire match, and a unit of Tzaangors killing my Librarian while it tried to hammer a Hellforged Deredeo woefully unsuccessfully.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
When did the Primaris Marines get so cheap?

codex space marines?

They jumped from Dark Imperium to Index: Imperium1 and got a bit of a discount in the vanilla codex.
Guess that doesn't matter much to non-codex armies.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
They jumped from Dark Imperium to Index: Imperium1 and got a bit of a discount in the vanilla codex.
Guess that doesn't matter much to non-codex armies.

actually per GW you can use the codex Marine prices for shared stuff, so you can use the new primaris points in codex Space Marine for space wolf Primaris' at least until you get your own codex

For anyone interested I built an army calculator tool in Excel, it's lacking a few things and it may be a bit too short for bigger armies, but happy to share it with anyone.

I know it lacks Land Raider and Black Corvus costs bc I only play 1k and don't have those.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
They jumped from Dark Imperium to Index: Imperium1 and got a bit of a discount in the vanilla codex.
Guess that doesn't matter much to non-codex armies.

actually per GW you can use the codex Marine prices for shared stuff, so you can use the new primaris points in codex Space Marine for space wolf Primaris' at least until you get your own codex

Guessing that doesn't apply.to things like cheaper power fists? :(

RogueApiary wrote:
Guessing that doesn't apply.to things like cheaper power fists? :(

Hmm...the power fists are a shared Data sheet in the Index, unlike Storm shields that are explicitly more expensive for DW. Would like to hear others' thoughts.

N00BST4R wrote:

RogueApiary wrote:
Guessing that doesn't apply.to things like cheaper power fists? :(

Hmm...the power fists are a shared Data sheet in the Index, unlike Storm shields that are explicitly more expensive for DW. Would like to hear others' thoughts.

yeah sadly we don't get the 5 point storm shields because it's listed as the price for Deathwatch. Just about everything else unless it's an exclusive weapon to Deathwatch is shared.

stewe128 wrote:

N00BST4R wrote:

RogueApiary wrote:
Guessing that doesn't apply.to things like cheaper power fists? :(

Hmm...the power fists are a shared Data sheet in the Index, unlike Storm shields that are explicitly more expensive for DW. Would like to hear others' thoughts.

yeah sadly we don't get the 5 point storm shields because it's listed as the price for Deathwatch. Just about everything else unless it's an exclusive weapon to Deathwatch is shared.

I'm not happy about the Stormshields, but can live with it. However, DW benefits from the cheaper Power Fists though from the SM Codex since it's shared?

Yes the sm codex takes precedence over the index for all sm units and weapons. So you use the codex version for everything if there is a codex version. If there isn't, you use the index version.

So my understanding would be that you use the sm codex for any sm units taken by other armies.

Okay - that was my interpretation too since DW shares the SM weapon profile datasheets unless explicitly expressed otherwise.

I guess the follow up question is do you think the DW codex will be self contained? Really hoping I won't need to buy/reference two books. How was it set up in 7th?

stewe128 wrote:

N00BST4R wrote:

RogueApiary wrote:
Guessing that doesn't apply.to things like cheaper power fists? :(

Hmm...the power fists are a shared Data sheet in the Index, unlike Storm shields that are explicitly more expensive for DW. Would like to hear others' thoughts.

yeah sadly we don't get the 5 point storm shields because it's listed as the price for Deathwatch. Just about everything else unless it's an exclusive weapon to Deathwatch is shared.

Character tax.
Thunderwolf Cavalry wears it as well.
The best way of getting Storm Shields seems to be Space Wolves units - Wolf Guard and Wulfen in particular have easy access to them.
I hate to say it but I am really leaning towards a mixed force of Space Mutts and Deathwatch rather than continuing to struggle with Purist Armies.

Forgeworld in Deathwatch. It was FAQ'd that we could take them. The question is what do we take? Think of the firepower we could get while Blackstars rush up. It would be tough to decide what to shoot at. What tanks, dreadnoughts, or anything else should we take?

What do you guys think of mixed Scion/DW? Maintains the elite theme while giving access to a lot of anti-infantry power from the taurox prime and cheap plasma with ridiculous mobility. At 2k points you could fit a corvus, watchmaster, 3man bike squad, 2 killteams, and like 3x 4man plasma ccs and 4x 5 man plasma troops and 3 dakka primes. Probably can fit in an lc or ac razorback too if you drop a taurox prime or dont go ham on the killteams' guns.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W069dPLTXg0

Just read the plague marine entry for the new chaos codex. Plague Marines have more options now then any space marine unit in the game now, takes up the entire page with war gear. Death Guard players are in for a real treat when the codex comes out. Try not to freak out when you read the flail of corruption, and the fact you can take 2 in each squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Heh whoops wrong thread.

RogueApiary wrote:
What do you guys think of mixed Scion/DW? Maintains the elite theme while giving access to a lot of anti-infantry power from the taurox prime and cheap plasma with ridiculous mobility. At 2k points you could fit a corvus, watchmaster, 3man bike squad, 2 killteams, and like 3x 4man plasma ccs and 4x 5 man plasma troops and 3 dakka primes. Probably can fit in an lc or ac razorback too if you drop a taurox prime or dont go ham on the killteams' guns.

I think a detachment of Scions is a fairly efficient "go to" for Deathwatch.

Since DW have their Special Issue Ammo built into their point cost and therefore don't get a refund on it when upgrading to any special, heavy or combi weapons, I tend to just add the free chainsword and call it a day. After all, at 19 base per model, they still die like any other 1W 3+ Marine. No point in over spending on them. The Kill Team Veterans, Terminators and Bikes all combined do more then enough anti-fantry imo.

So when looking at the Scions and the Taurox Primes, I don't go for the dakka version but rather the Missile and Autocannon version. The longer range lets it engage targets farther out without having to move and taking the -1 to hit. Primes also aren't all that tough so moving within 24" to get all that dakka in range puts it well within range of getting knocked down a few wound levels and reducing is effectiveness fairly quickly. Since Primes don't have access to any character that lets them re-roll anything, you can't even compensate for it a little bit.

As for the Scions themselves, 5 man squads with 2x specials are inexpensive and straight forward in purpose. Add in the Tempestor Prime for the re-rolls and dropping in with over charged Plasma fills a nice gap in the DW efficiency line. Plus a Scion Command Squad for each Prime you may take and their 4 specials.

About the only thing I am doing is keeping everything in separate detachments. Looking at the trend being set by the new Codex's, there are going to be things missed out on if you mix all this together in a Battalion and up. So future proofing now and keeping them separate is probably a good idea.

Trying to get the right loadout on Terminators is a right pain, they get very expensive very quickly. I would love a dual cyclone unit just for the look...may have to reserve that for uncompetitive games.

On another note what are people doing about stalker boltgun being standard with the DW kit? Just using them as "counts as" standard Bolters? I just see no real use for a heavy 2 bolter.

Just get like 5 ~ 6 razorback with TL assault cannon with watch master and hose your enemies with dakka and win. I killed like 2 15 necron warrior squad turn 1 lol and killed like a squad of 10 immortals and some destroyers the next turn. If you do some dice hammer, with DW watch master being in the 6" bubble granting re-rolls, 5~6 razorback with TL assault cannon pumps out roughly 60~72 shots per turn and average of 5~10 misses (with rerolls), it will guarantee destroy a unit or two per turn.

Also came here to report Land Raider helios sync well with for shooty deathwatch list. The helios launcher wrecked opponents backfield campers.

Also get LEVIATHAN dreadnought, you need it, you WANT it. This beast is....beast. It will kill anything barring actual titans. Arming it with dual storm array cannons will wreck just about everything. like if you tell it to shoot at something, the whole group of whatever will get blown away; works like charm against hordes, vehicles, flyers (stormraven), teleporting troops...etc.

And have anyone tried dual bolt pistols veterans? So like everyone armed with dual pistols shooting then charging, then hopefully survive combat and shoot again.

 fr3ddy wrote:
Just get like 5 ~ 6 razorback with TL assault cannon with watch master and hose your enemies with dakka and win. I killed like 2 15 necron warrior squad turn 1 lol and killed like a squad of 10 immortals and some destroyers the next turn. If you do some dice hammer, with DW watch master being in the 6" bubble granting re-rolls, 5~6 razorback with TL assault cannon pumps out roughly 60~72 shots per turn and average of 5~10 misses (with rerolls), it will guarantee destroy a unit or two per turn.

Also came here to report Land Raider helios sync well with for shooty deathwatch list. The helios launcher wrecked opponents backfield campers.

Also get LEVIATHAN dreadnought, you need it, you WANT it. This beast is....beast. It will kill anything barring actual titans. Arming it with dual storm array cannons will wreck just about everything. like if you tell it to shoot at something, the whole group of whatever will get blown away; works like charm against hordes, vehicles, flyers (stormraven), teleporting troops...etc.

And have anyone tried dual bolt pistols veterans? So like everyone armed with dual pistols shooting then charging, then hopefully survive combat and shoot again.

That sounds amazing, but I'm a bit hesitant to shell out for 4-5 additional razorbacks + 6 FW turrets for a setup that could be nerfed into irrelevance at the drop of a hat. I'm currently planning on getting two AC razorbacks.

Been drooling over that Leviathan for a minute though, just waiting on friends to finally decide on what they want so we can pool an FW order for the free shipping. What do you think of the Chaplain Dread? The model looks amazing and the rules didn't seem too bad.

I had thought about doing that same thing with the dual pistols, waiting on a bitz order to arrive so I can finish fully magnetizing a Vanguard squad.

The main problem I think would be anything that can be effectively hurt by a dual BP setup is not going to be worth exposing 100+ points of Vanguard Vets to the inevitable fallback + retaliation on their next turn.

For a 5 man squad, I'm getting 1.8 with Hellfire and an additional 1.2 from 11 CC attacks. So if they hit a 5 man devastator squad it could be worth it.

3.6 with Hellfire and 3.1 from the close combat against GEQ, so it should reliably assassinate a Commissar or officer with the right/lucky positioning. There might be some T5+ stuff where the Hellfire rounds can really shine at putting some wounds in though. Maybe some backline Tyranid/Necron units?

Agree with the hesitancy on loading up on assault cannon Razorback turrets, by the time the Codex proper comes out GW may well have removed it as an option.

Is anything Primaris worth taking in a Deathwatch army? I can maybe see a place for Helblasters or Aggressors but that is about it.

So, should I model a two stormshield veteran while its still legal to do so?

Well, Space Mahreen codex is out, TL assault cannon is still OP, and Deathwatch are basically suped up Sphess Mahreen with cool gear.

Unless GW decide deathwatch should not have rhinos and razorback, then yeah....I mean, flamer razorback and las/plas razorback is not avail to dethwotch, but....i have not seen anyone take em ever.

if dethwotch can take some primaris, i would take the aggressor for flame spam for rear protection or that tank thing, which has more dakka than a land raider.

I might look into tarantula turrets for sheer shot output and obj sec. Its 45 points for a TL assault cannon turret, take 10 and you spew out 120 shots per turn along. And best part is these turrets are individual models after deployment. Par these turrets up with watch master for some hair pulling and eye ball gauging action from opponent watching his army blown up @ record speed.