Missed Opportunity with the Kroot

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**MechaEmperor7000**

So among all the hullabaloo with every other faction, I realized that they missed an excellent chance to make the kroot their own sub-faction within the Tau Empire. Namely the Shaper is an Elite Choice rather than a HQ, so you still can't field an all-kroot force. A shame too, since I looked over their units and, while not stellar, are not that bad for their points either (you basically have to use horde tactics if you don't wanna use count-as Tau units). The Krootox in particular caught my eye. T5 and decently fast movement with a Rapidfire, 48" Autocannon on it's back. Meanwhile the Kroot Hound has a guardsmen profile with 12"(!) of movement and AP-1 melee attacks for a neat 4 point package.

The only issue I see is that Kroot in general have pisspoor leadership, which can be an issue if they're forced to take morale checks. However going by the wording of the thing, it looks like an Ethereal can probably buff their leadership (Kroot are technically Tau Empire Infantry).

In fact now that I think about it, I think that the Ethereal might make for a good Kroot HQ. Possibly converted up to be less Tau and more of a mutant shaper or something.

Anyways, thoughts on this?

**GodDamUser**

May well happen when it comes time for a Tau Codex

**Thousand-Son-Sorcerer**

This will probably happen there are already most of what you need for kroot to be thier own thing if they add a HQ then they will be set.

**MechaEmperor7000**

Kroot still lack true heavy hitters and anti-armor units. Kroot Hounds are effective but they're more based on the "throw enough dice at the problem and it will eventually go a way" type deal. The Knarloc and Greater Knarloc, if I remember, filled that role, but they've been out of production so long that I doubt FW still remembers they exist, let alone make rules for them. Still though, the basic framework is there.

**Galas**

I have neever liked Kroot. I'll gladly accept Tarellian and Demiurg that a full Kroot faction.

But I'm not gonna cry if they expand the Kroot range for people that like them. The problem is... what exactly is the niche or faction "feeling" of the Kroots? Hordes of hard hitting but relatively fragile models with Ambush tactics and tactics based in high movement? So... Dark Eldar?

**Commissar Benny**

I've always really liked the Kroot. Its a shame you see them so rarely on the tabletop. It would be great if they were their own standalone faction. They have a really neat aesthetic & knarlocs are just awesome.

**MechaEmperor7000**

Galas wrote:
I have neever liked Kroot. I'll gladly accept Tarellian and Demiurg that a full Kroot faction.

But I'm not gonna cry if they expand the Kroot range for people that like them. The problem is... what exactly is the niche or faction "feeling" of the Kroots? Hordes of hard hitting but relatively fragile models with Ambush tactics and tactics based in high movement? So... Dark Eldar?

In the old chapter approved Kroot Armylist, they were sort of a blend of Orks + Dark Eldar; fragile but hard hitting and could take a variety of delicious dakka guns with the odd mutation thrown in. With the Knarlocs thrown in they also had a hint of Tyranids, since they didn't have vehicles and used monstrous mutants of their species as the living battering rams.

They also, in the lore, had a reputation of working for whoever paid well enough. This could potentially make them the "inquisition" for Xenos; being allowed to be taken in non-imperial armies as allies without having to bring in another detachment.

**ZebioLizard2**

Didn't they used to have some major leadership rules due to how they were "paid". If they broke and ran they had a much harder time coming back to coherency but they had a much stronger LD beforehand.

**Kroem**

That's a real shame, the Kroot are the coolest thing about the Tau Empire and they get the least attention! I was hoping there would be a way to field them interdependently in 8th :-(

Love the idea of them being an option to be taken in a number of forces, that would really fit well with their mercenary background.
You could do that with other races like the Glag and the Tarrellian Dog Soldiers as well if GW were feeling really nice.

**MechaEmperor7000**

Part of the reason marine releases makes me salty is because GW is sitting on a great many potential units for a Pirate or Mercenary force. Like Eldar Corsairs outside of FW supplements, Ork Freebooters, renegade (but not traitor) marines, Rogue Traders and ofc Kroot. And these could be made to be allies for a lot of other races that don't have access to stuff like Harlequins or Inquisition. But considering they can't even be bothered to update some imperial armies (SoBs), this is something I've resigned to never see in the game.

**Oaka**

Unfortunately Kroot were a conversion army, and rules are only made for supported models now. Forgeworld left them out of their index, so it's looking unlikely they'll make a comeback. I've been converting them to be footslogging Dark Eldar for years now, as I'm one who really likes the model and aesthetics. There was a brief window where I was able to use them as mercenaries to an Alaitoc force (when they had those dreaded disruption tables) and that is when I feel they had their strongest identity as a unique force of infiltrators and ambushers.

**ZebioLizard2**

Oaka wrote:
Unfortunately Kroot were a conversion army, and rules are only made for supported models now. Forgeworld left them out of their index, so it's looking unlikely they'll make a comeback. I've been converting them to be footslogging Dark Eldar for years now, as I'm one who really likes the model and aesthetics. There was a brief window where I was able to use them as mercenaries to an Alaitoc force (when they had those dreaded disruption tables) and that is when I feel they had their strongest identity as a unique force of infiltrators and ambushers.

Kroot Shapers are now in the main Tau force, along with Krootox. Of what's left are the big Gnarlocs if I remember right.

**Coldhatred**

I agree, ever since I read the Chapter Approved Kroot Army list I've always wanted to have them be their own thing, or at least possible as their own thing within the Tau Codices. I doubt it will ever happen though, as MechaEmperor700 points out, GW still hasn't updated SoB.

**MechaEmperor7000**

Oaka wrote:
Unfortunately Kroot were a conversion army, and rules are only made for supported models now. Forgeworld left them out of their index, so it's looking unlikely they'll make a comeback. I've been converting them to be footslogging Dark Eldar for years now, as I'm one who really likes the model and aesthetics. There was a brief window where I was able to use them as mercenaries to an Alaitoc force (when they had those dreaded disruption tables) and that is when I feel they had their strongest identity as a unique force of infiltrators and ambushers.

I may have to steal this idea. An outrider detachment with Beast packs and Talos functioning as Krootox could be a good approximation of a Kroot force. Or maybe even just generic Pirates from various races.

**ZebioLizard2**

People just going to ignore that they added the Shaper and Krootox to the actual index..?

The only issue right now is that the Shaper is for some strange reason Elite. Which now shares a slot with Krootox, but they did ensure that Hounds are Fast Attack and Carnivores are still troops. The Krootox could also do with their gun becoming Assault rather then Rapid Fire so they can continue pushing into melee while still gunning things.

Hopefully in the future they are planning for a seperate Kroot Codex that would change this issue and add some stuff to them, like their old ability to eat enemies to gain power or something.

**MechaEmperor7000**

Well the Krootox and Shaper were always in the codex. It's just that they were never really viable. Shapers because they were glorified sergeants for the squad (they suffered a similar fate to the Broodlord the Nids had) while Krootoxes only had T3 for a long time (the reasoning being that it's the rider that's being targetted; the krootox itself runs off when the rider dies). Another thing was that both along with the kroot hounds were rolled into one unit with the carnivores since 4th edition I think.

T3 on a model with multiple wounds in 7th edition, especially one with a pisspoor save and expensive, was a death sentence. Which is why i'm fairly surprised at their buffed stats.

**ZebioLizard2**

I'm not going to lie, I didn't realize they had added them. I just remember when they both were FW/CA only.

Though I do hope for a Kroot Codex eventually.

**MechaEmperor7000**

Krootoxes and Shapers were viable in the 3rd edition codex. While I never got to use them during this time (I only got my tau models after their new 4th ed codex hit) I heard about how the Krootox had T6 and a decent gun (it was a walking autocannon) while the Shaper actually provided buffs to the unit. The Krootox got it's Toughness docked because it was always attached to the Carnivores, which had a Toughness of 3. This meant that the T6 sometimes didn't come into play due to there being more carnivores in the squad than there were krootoxes. The official excuse was the one listed above (the one about the enemies shooting at the riders). The Shaper was just made a squad sergeant because, for whatever reason, GW didn't like the idea of a Tau army not led by a battlesuit commander.

Also I don't really want another codex, but really just Kroot to be a sub-faction like how the four chaos gods are technically subfactions within the greater Chaos Codexes. Kroot shouldn't be a well rounded army, it should be a hard to play one and require some dedication.

**benlac**

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
So among all the hullabaloo with every other faction, I realized that they missed an excellent chance to make the kroot their own sub-faction within the Tau Empire. Namely the Shaper is an Elite Choice rather than a HQ, so you still can't field an all-kroot force. A shame too, since I looked over their units and, while not stellar, are not that bad for their points either (you basically have to use horde tactics if you don't wanna use count-as Tau units). The Krootox in particular caught my eye. T5 and decently fast movement with a Rapidfire, 48" Autocannon on it's back. Meanwhile the Kroot Hound has a guardsmen profile with 12"(!) of movement and AP-1 melee attacks for a neat 4 point package.

The only issue I see is that Kroot in general have pisspoor leadership, which can be an issue if they're forced to take morale checks. However going by the wording of the thing, it looks like an Ethereal can probably buff their leadership (Kroot are technically Tau Empire Infantry).

In fact now that I think about it, I think that the Ethereal might make for a good Kroot HQ. Possibly converted up to be less Tau and more of a mutant shaper or something.

Anyways, thoughts on this?

I'd be so into a Kroot army if they had a couple more unit options. The Ork Squiggoth from forge world might be convertible into a Kroot army?

**nateprati**

Kroot should and probably will get recognition as a faction that allies with tau similar to tempestus scions or whatever they are called. But they do need more options for heavy hitters and hq.

I don't play Kroot but I would love it if they became a small faction. We need as many more xenos as we can get specially the less sophisticated kind (tau kind of got future weapons down) and enough people would play pure Kroot. Same kind of people play full tempestus, legion of the damned, sisters and all the wierd factions of IG. These armies make 40k exciting to play.

As rick Harrison would say "you never know what's going to walk through that door"

**Shas'O'Ceris**

I would like some use for my kroot. If they had a species wide special rule like improve a S/T/A/Ld or 6+ fnp if this unit completely destroyed an opponent unit in melee and did not move in the following movement phase. Target opponent must have a higher attribute than this unit to improve that attribute.

Shapers of course make it better, and their mutating by eating more will be strongly present in game. They would have a challenging tactic that requires balancing melee and range.

I'd love knarloc to return, preferably affordable.

**cuda1179**

I used to run an all Kroot army using Angkor Prok (limited edition rules in WD and online) as an HQ, a TON of Carnivore squads, some Krootox, several kroothound units, and two Knarlocks.

This army played a lot like no-vehicle orks, but with more emphasis on shooting and less on assault. I sure wish they had brought back they're ability to gain an extra melee attack with their rifles.

Generally speaking, having 180 models infiltrating was a nightmare for armies that were not combat oriented and non-vehicle heavy. Heaven forbid if this was a forest heavy board. Guard, Eldar (pre cheese), Tau, and even Dark Eldar folded from just sheer firepower. Marines were trickier. orks and Tyranids were a bit of a coin flip on whether I could shoot enough down before they reached combat.

My two most enjoyable games were with a Dark Angels player, both losses. One game started with my kroot blowing up 7 of his 9 landspeeders on the first turn, then getting blasted by Devastator squads with heavy bolters for the next 5 turns. The other game was against an all terminator army. I lost about 10 guys for every one of his, but it was so fun.

**benlac**

dude that sounds awesome, but I am stuck on:

cuda1179 wrote:
I having 180 models

how in the hell did you paint all of those, I am struggling with 40 space marines lol

**Purifier**

benlac wrote:
dude that sounds awesome, but I am stuck on:

cuda1179 wrote:
I having 180 models

how in the hell did you paint all of those, I am struggling with 40 space marines lol

I remember lining up my 40 skitarii after having painted them. I was exhausted, and I cried blood. I just bought another 10 plus 10 electro priests for 8th... You just never learn.

That said, painting my 200 skaven wasn't a big deal. They're dirty and work well with a rough paint job.

**MechaEmperor7000**

They would be more rounded if FW didn't lose the molds to the Knarloc Riders and Great Knarlocs. Those were essentially the equivallent of T-wolves and Carnifexes for Kroot, even without the WD armylist.