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 Tyr13 wrote:
You can include him, he just doesnt give any bonuses to anyone else, and cant gain any bonuses from anyone else either.

His fearless bubble would still effect any Craftworld units even if they were being used as Ynnari, they don't lose the Asuryani keyword. What is your reasoning for saying he can be taken?

With Ynnari, you want to MSU and stay within 7" of each other so that you trigger Strength from Death as much as possible and punish the opponent for killing you.

So, anything on a jetbike, venom, raider, starweavers, flyers, infiltrators, and deepstrikers should do well in a Ynnari list.

fresus wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
DE and Harlequin transports are both MUCH more durable than they used to be, but you don't really care because you get a guaranteed soulburst when it dies as long as the vehicle doesn't explode.

That's also how I read it. When a transport is destroyed, you disembark before removing the model, so you can indeed soulburst after disembarking. But when it explodes, it's removed before you disembark, so no soulburst. That actually explains the rather weird ruling on 7th edition soulbursting.
That's assuming a unit is "completely destroyed" when the last model is removed from the table, and not when the last model reaches 0 wounds. I think it makes sense, especially with the word "completely", but I could see people argue about it.

Soulbursting out of destroyed transports is indeed pretty good, but not as much as in 7th. Most things you put in transports will want to be close to their target, so you need to have your transport die right in the opponent's face. But fast skimmers actually became slower (they could move + flat out for a total of 30", and now it's usually 22" or 16" + D6"), and Raiders lost their deep strike rule.

I don't have the rules in front of me, but this seems weird. Surely a unit is destroyed when the last model in the unit is destroyed. It's kind of awkward to interpret it as, first, the transport model is destroyed, then the transported units disembark, then you remove the model, and only then is the transport unit destroyed.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Can you take an Avatar of Khaine in a Ynnari detatchment?

At first I thought you could because all units share the Aeldari faction keyword, but the Ynnari page says that in order to gain the Ynnari keyword on units they have to be in a Ynnari army, and you can't have an avatar in a Ynnari army. I think this also means you can't include it in the same army even if it's in a different detachment.

Yeah, I think you can't take him. An "army" is clearly the entire collection of stuff that you're bringing to the battle. There's no clear definition of what it means to be a "<keyword> army", but surely the most reasonable interpretation of it is that it's an army where all the units have the keyword. And so if you have an Ynnari army, which is required in order to give things like Striking Scorpions the Ynnari keyword, then you can't bring units in any detachment that don't have the Ynnari keyword.

Though you could bring the Avatar in a detachment that includes any or all of the three Ynnari HQs; it would just be an Aeldari detachment and an Aeldari army.

Ynnari says you can not take them in the Ynnari army.

You can play the Yncarne/Ynvarine/Viscarne together but with the Avatar of Khaine, not as Ynnari but Aeldari.

So the issue with the Avatar (and other non-Ynnari units) in a Ynnari army seems to by the poorly defined term "army".

I think there are 4 different Aeldari armies, each with their own "X army list" page in the index.

The faction keyword restriction on detachments allows you to take a combination of units from the 4 different Aeldari armies in the same detachment.

I don't think the Ynnari army list is meant to be unique among the 4 in not being able to mix with the others. It is written as it is to avoid having to duplicate most of the datasheets from the other 3 Aeldari armies with the only difference being an extra keyword and special rule.

So the Ynnari work just the same as the other 3. I think the Chaos Legions (eg Thousand Sons) work in a similar way.

Generally, no, Legions and Chapters don't talk about having a "<faction> army" as a requirement for taking the vanilla units as <faction> units. They just give a list of units which can gain their particular keyword in place of "<faction>".

dont think it's been mentioned yet but your Ynnari units can now share transports IE wraithguard in raiders are things again.

 supreme overlord wrote:
dont think it's been mentioned yet but your Ynnari units can now share transports IE wraithguard in raiders are things again.

No, unfortunately they can not. The only Ynnari units that can go into transports are ones with Ynnead's will and the only two models with it are Visarch and Yvraine.

 supreme overlord wrote:
dont think it's been mentioned yet but your Ynnari units can now share transports IE wraithguard in raiders are things again.

Only a couple models have the Ynnead's Will rule (Yvraine, Visarch)

So i am a bit new to Ynarri -- i have an existing DE force and I can't help but notice I don't see that we're able to take a raider as a dedicated transport? Am I reading that wrong? I do see the ravager but no raider -- only starweavers and wave serpents.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
So the issue with the Avatar (and other non-Ynnari units) in a Ynnari army seems to by the poorly defined term "army".

I think there are 4 different Aeldari armies, each with their own "X army list" page in the index.

The faction keyword restriction on detachments allows you to take a combination of units from the 4 different Aeldari armies in the same detachment.

I don't think the Ynnari army list is meant to be unique among the 4 in not being able to mix with the others. It is written as it is to avoid having to duplicate most of the datasheets from the other 3 Aeldari armies with the only difference being an extra keyword and special rule.

So the Ynnari work just the same as the other 3. I think the Chaos Legions (eg Thousand Sons) work in a similar way.

Pg 214, read "Choose Armies" to me its clear that an army is "What you bring on the table" not "faction names".

Aeldari isnt 4 "factions" but more like 15 lol. if you got o pg 240 you can read more about that, it even says "Imperium" is a faction that is SM equivalent to Aeldari.

optrgrow wrote:
So i am a bit new to Ynarri -- i have an existing DE force and I can't help but notice I don't see that we're able to take a raider as a dedicated transport? Am I reading that wrong? I do see the ravager but no raider -- only starweavers and wave serpents.

Raider says "Transports, Drukhari" the same as Starweavers for Harlequins or Wave Serpents for Eldar.

So if you go Ynnari your whole army has to be Ynnari and you can't mix in some Harlequins that keep Rising Crescendo or DE with PfP?

Correct you lose those abilities.

Seems opposite of the fluff, and possibly not intentional, but I think that's the best way to read it currently.

... so out of all armies, Ynnari is the only one that doesnt get allies? Seems kind of unlikely.

 Tyr13 wrote:
... so out of all armies, Ynnari is the only one that doesnt get allies? Seems kind of unlikely.

It's like saying Imperium doesn't have any allies…

Orks, Necrons, and T'au really don't though.

So anyone have a 2k all commers general list for Ynnari?

Id be interested in starting them but don't own any elder/dark elder at all so would want to know good first purchases

str00dles1 wrote:
So anyone have a 2k all commers general list for Ynnari?

Id be interested in starting them but don't own any elder/dark elder at all so would want to know good first purchases

Ynnari covers 3 factions with additional special characters. As a result there is no general list for Ynnari. I suggest looking through the whole eldar line (except coven) and picking out the units you like the look off. From there you can start building a list around them.

str00dles1 wrote:
So anyone have a 2k all commers general list for Ynnari?

Id be interested in starting them but don't own any elder/dark elder at all so would want to know good first purchases

I'm going to try this 1K list this week-end for a local event:
- master + 5 troupes, fusion/embrace on everyone, starweaver
- 2 skyweavers
- solitaire
- hemlock
- 10 kabalites, blaster, cannon, raider with lance
I think the same list x2 (minus solitaire) could also work at 2K.
But I don't plan on running them as Ynnari.

Fire dragons in Wave Serpent
Dark Reapers
Lots of Bikes
Some Psykers
Hemlock
Beast Packs units of 1

There is your starting list for all Competitive Ynnari lists.

I personally like Solitaire for melee choice, I like a Farseer and Autarch on bikes over the Ynnari HQ's, keeping these 2 units close to 3-4 bike units

So dark elder don't have much of a place? Its just to mash up Craftworld and Harleys?

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Lots of Bikes

They really don't have much to offer over Guardians.

DE, Incubi, beast packs, and Scourges are all good, just saying what 1st picks are, those 1st picks are only like 1k points or so.

All bikes are good, DE, Harlequins and Eldar, and each of them fills a different roll.
DE Reavers with Drugs and a blaster
Harlequins Skyweavers are melee vs of Windriders, a bit more costly but S4 -2 D2 with a -1 to hit against them,
Incubi can finish up a squad and move/pile in or even combat again.
Beast like Ravorwing Flocks or Khymerae's are extremely cheap, fast and if you place them in front of bike, use them as 1'st chargers to hit over watch (if they die you get a SFD action) these are very useful.


Im not saying DE isnt good its just that DE are "Jack of all trades" army, they mix and max AT and AI in each unit.

Examples:
Reavers, 1 High Str weapon per 3 bikes. 2 bikes AI
Warriors: 1 special or range weapon High Str weapon per 5/10 guy, other 4/9 AI
Fliers: 1-2 AI and 1-2 AT weapons
Also DE is poison or S8 no between thats worth taking (shredder spam is a thing but not as good as shuriken)

Due to this reason, Eldar are a better pick for Ynnari, when you can have units like Fire Dragons and Dark Reapers, and with units that can spam S6 (this is better AI than Poison b.c you have dedicated AT you dont need S6 for that, S6 needs 2's or 3's to wound and Shuriken can rend, this makes poison pointless).

Edit: Compare Dark Reavers to Scourge, 1 can sit in cover and shoot all game with 2 modes of fire and a good save already, they also can have a Warlock with them, then you look at Scourges, they can either high in cover with 4 DL's or DS with blasters, either way the Dark Reapers are almost always better, BUT you can still play Scourges effectively for sure! Its just why Scourges are not a "1st pick"

I'm not convinced by scourges, they seem pretty expensive for the fire power they bring. Ravagers seem so much better.

As for the bikes, I'm not a huge fan. Reavers lack the punch they used to have in melee, and are much more expensive so can't be used as a throwaway unit as easily as before.
Skyweavers with rising crescendo can get T1 charges pretty reliably, and murder Primaris marine. Apart from that, they're not that great. S4 with only 3 attacks mean they won't be dealing a ton of damage. Most people I've played with so far were surprised by the T1 charge, but I expect them to adapt and bubble wrap more, which will make it harder for the Skyweavers to pull their weight.
Shuricannon skyrunners are a bit better, especially when taken en-masse. S6 spam with some AP seems to be pretty decent in this edition too. But wave serpents look like a better platform to do it, because they can transport more specialized units (fire dragon, wraithguards) at the same time.

I think you shouldn't write out Yvrainne Amishprn86. In fact, I think she is a basic component of every Ynnari list.
One free Soulburst per turn is awesome, and if the FAQ allows her to use it on any Ynnari unit (as the wording implies) it will be a must-have for vehicles or Wraithknights.

@DanielFM

Im not, its an amazing model and a beast for sure!

I just prefer to use other units is all, i still play with the Yncarne time to time

@fesus

I was just saying what in DE/Harlequins would work with Ynnari well is all. Eldar for sure has better units/tools for Ynnari.

It was just some suggestion as someone pointed out they wanted more DE models, Scourges fit Ynnari well .

@DarknessEternal
um.... Range, Movement, S6 vs S4 and toughness lol,

 Amishprn86 wrote:

@DarknessEternal
um.... Range, Movement, S6 vs S4 and toughness lol,

All of which are pretty irrelevant for their costs.

Is it worth Ynnari if you don't plan on using the Triumvirate? I mean Soulburst still seems REALLY good.

Wayniac wrote:
Is it worth Ynnari if you don't plan on using the Triumvirate? I mean Soulburst still seems REALLY good.

I think Yvraine is extremely good and worth playing in almost any list. Her words of the phoenix can be used in so many ways from guaranteeing a charge, making sure your anti-tank kills its target, letting something get murdered in close combat.

Try her out.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

@DarknessEternal
um.... Range, Movement, S6 vs S4 and toughness lol,

All of which are pretty irrelevant for their costs.

They are worth it 100%, also forgot to say they are 2 wounds each.

Guardians are irrelevant, a unit of 10 guardians is a little less than a unit of 3 Windriders... Lets just say you got them in range (b.c a transport that costs 170pts got them there), even if you shoot the 20 shots on a T4 unit, the 14 hits is much more but due to the S4 you literally are doing the same number of wounds.

But you now you move literally less than 1/2 the distance, if your shooting against T5+ then you do less wounds, you are only T3 with a 5+, any unit of bolters will kill you.

Guardians have there place in Eldar for sure, but Min/Maxing for Ynnari bikes are better.