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Interesting... now I've got to try this out.

i would say two squads plus St Cel. one squad won't have the Imagifier around on turn two but if you do throw them into a combat it'll tie them up possibly long enough for the the Imagifier to catch up for turn three.

BTW Katherine, how're you equipping your seraphim superiors?

For me, Chosen. They're not good, mind. 'Zerkers do melee better, and havocs do special weapon spam better, and even if you want to do some of each, you can just put five zerks & five havocs in the same rhino or dreadclaw.

But while they're not at all optimal, they are a lot more playable than they were, mostly due to points decrease (especially for power weapons) & changes to transport rules.

Everything in my codex except Hive Tyrants or Mucolids

Genestealers, Pyrovores, Carnifexes, we had so many units that never saw play that are useful now.

 Melissia wrote:
BTW Katherine, how're you equipping your seraphim superiors?

She doesn't really have options. It's 2x Bolt Pistol, Bolt Pistol + Plasma Pistol, Power Sword + Plasma Pistol, or Power Sword + Bolt Pistol.

The Plasma Pistol is worth more for her than the Power Sword, so if you can only afford one, then take the Plasma Pistol. It's a straight up upgrade to her Bolt Pistol, the only disadvantage is the points you spent that you didn't spend on something else.

The melee weapons are a bit of another story, though. For a S3, WS3, A2 Seraphim Superior, she averages against Marine Targets in a single round of attacks:
0.1089W with a Bolt Pistol
0.2156W with a Chainsword
0.3630W with a Power Sword

There's not a real reason to keep the Pistol, as I see it. Even with Divine Guidance, it comes up about equal to or worse than the Chainsword against things she's expected to face. The Power Sword is also a straight up upgrade, but is it worth the points?

She's going to make better use of a Melee upgrade than pretty much anyone else eligible for one I'm fielding, so if there's still spare points then I'm issuing her the pointy-stick first. But that's after the allocation of special and heavy weapons, and only if there's points left over.

I haven;t had a chance to test anything yet. I'm going to be playing again tomorrow, and will almost certainly be using Sisters then since I was playing Imperial Guard on Saturday. My Seraphim Sister Superior will, in all probability, be wielding a Plasma Pistol and Power Sword.

Wow, where do I begin with my Dark Angels? I'd say pretty much anything in terminator armor is not only good, but fantastic! The precision deep striking and improvements to storm bolters just made Deathwing squads viable. Throw in Belial for some sweet reroll action and profit! Azrael is another underused character from 7th who is now really good. 6" bubble of 4++ and rerolls to hit? Yes please! Plus he gives a free Command Point. Heck, even Asmodai isn't totally useless anymore. It's a good day to be a Son of the Lion, I can tell you!

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Shining Spears. Overpriced and ineffectual before, but now that Aerobatic Grace is an Invulnerable save instead of a cover save, the laser lance can be used alongside double the shuriken catapult shots, and they've gotten two Wounds and two Damage off the laser lances they're much better. Much more expensive, too, but their durability and damage output have both skyrocketed.

They were actually fine before and I've spoken with many other Eldar players regarding their merits. Some players tried to use them as a spearhead and they simply didn't have the volume of attacks for that.

They have gone up in cost a lot this edition (as have most biker units) and despite their significant increase in ability I think it remains to be seen if bike units in general are worth it.

Enigma of the Absolute wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Shining Spears. Overpriced and ineffectual before, but now that Aerobatic Grace is an Invulnerable save instead of a cover save, the laser lance can be used alongside double the shuriken catapult shots, and they've gotten two Wounds and two Damage off the laser lances they're much better. Much more expensive, too, but their durability and damage output have both skyrocketed.

They were actually fine before and I've spoken with many other Eldar players regarding their merits. Some players tried to use them as a spearhead and they simply didn't have the volume of attacks for that.

They have gone up in cost a lot this edition (as have most biker units) and despite their significant increase in ability I think it remains to be seen if bike units in general are worth it.

Shining Spears were absolutely NOT fine last edition.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Wow, where do I begin with my Dark Angels? I'd say pretty much anything in terminator armor is not only good, but fantastic! The precision deep striking and improvements to storm bolters just made Deathwing squads viable. Throw in Belial for some sweet reroll action and profit! Azrael is another underused character from 7th who is now really good. 6" bubble of 4++ and rerolls to hit? Yes please! Plus he gives a free Command Point. Heck, even Asmodai isn't totally useless anymore. It's a good day to be a Son of the Lion, I can tell you!

yeah I'd say for Marine players the "most improved gun" award goes to the now not so humble stormbolter. it used to be I laughed at the idea of taking a stormbolter on a squad sergent, now with the way stormbolters work it's almost a ".. if you can afford it it's a pretty good choice"

 jeff white wrote:
Imperial acolytes. Three wounds each eight points per model.

agreed! Had a Chaplain charge one and 3 Fight phases later he still had 1 wound! plus 3 attacks with that Chainsword to boot!

 Purifier wrote:
Electro-Priests with staves.

I snuck them up the middle in a game and charged a lesser unit of marines that I had wittled down to 2 models in shooting.

My 9 electropriests (lost one during their march) made quick work of them and moved into 3 units standing too close to the original unit. Since they had just wiped a unit in close combat, they are now 3++ and 5+++. While they weren't really impressive in combat (not bad, just not impressive with only 2 attacks each) they were close to impossible to kill. They just kept hacking small dents in things while tarpitting.

I was skeptical but ... yowza. Both electro-priest variants are good now, shockingly (heh).

The Fulgurites (staff) guys have a (time limited) buff in addition to their massive Index improvement, in that most people still think they are garbage and ignore them, giving you the angle to do what Purifier did and sneak them into to snipe a unit kill with their pimp canes. Don't expect them to be ignored after a few times of that

Dark Eldar Wyches are now legitimately useful, being able to drown things in number of attacks with a guaranteed buff from Combat Drugs.

Howling Banshees are looking to be excellent counter-charge units now that Craftworlds have transports that you can assault out of. Always hit first unless you are a Slannesh daemon and it's your turn/you spend 2 Command Points, can get into combat very reliably, Exarch imposes a -1 To Hit penalty.

 TheNewBlood wrote:
Dark Eldar Wyches are now legitimately useful, being able to drown things in number of attacks with a guaranteed buff from Combat Drugs.

Howling Banshees are looking to be excellent counter-charge units now that Craftworlds have transports that you can assault out of. Always hit first unless you are a Slannesh daemon and it's your turn/you spend 2 Command Points, can get into combat very reliably, Exarch imposes a -1 To Hit penalty.

What are you spending 2cp on there?

From playing games of 8th as Eldar

- Most infantry (Overcosted T3 infantry that die fast)
- DA - 17 pts, what a joke. If they were 11-13 pts i would bring them as core infantry.
- Storm Guardians - Like standard guardians but even more pointless.
- Warp Spiders - 12 inch range + gets eaten alive not being able to move out of combat range after shooting
- Banshees - S3 T3 die like flies. Have run them in 3 games they just don't have the punch you need in combat even with Jain Zar backing them up.
- Falcon tanks (Overcosted, 47 more points then a wave serpent, wave serpent has shield and 1 more wound. Falcon has a pulse laser instead of a brightlance, 6 less transport spaces as well.)
- Vauls - Just not worth it ever. Better to bring war walkers or a vyper.

From the tau list i noticed the Broadsides are off the charts expensive, wouldn't say they are bad but they aren't worth the points.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Kommandos got cheaper and get free burnas. Can also 'deep strike' (the only ork unit that can now without wierdboyz) and reroll charges.

You've forgotten Storm Boyz.

Storm boyz can no longer deep strike. :*(

 mrhappyface wrote:

 TheNewBlood wrote:
Dark Eldar Wyches are now legitimately useful, being able to drown things in number of attacks with a guaranteed buff from Combat Drugs.

Howling Banshees are looking to be excellent counter-charge units now that Craftworlds have transports that you can assault out of. Always hit first unless you are a Slannesh daemon and it's your turn/you spend 2 Command Points, can get into combat very reliably, Exarch imposes a -1 To Hit penalty.

What are you spending 2cp on there?

I think it's to take advantage of the stratagem that allows one of your units to attack during your opponents charge attack resolutions. effectively you can have a unit strike out of usual sequence for it's standing and have it (Potentially) kill it's charger before the thing that charged attacks if your opponent uses a different unit to attack first.

I thought as much, but that only works if the unit that charged the banshees isn't activated first (assuming the charging unit is Slaaneshi daemon).

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Kommandos got cheaper and get free burnas. Can also 'deep strike' (the only ork unit that can now without wierdboyz) and reroll charges.

You've forgotten Storm Boyz.

Storm boyz can no longer deep strike. :*(

WHAAAAT

Miradorm wrote:
To me Rough Riders seem much more interesting now then they were previously. I don't have my book in front of me so may be a bit wrong but deploying after everyone else and coming in 7 inches from any table edge as long as more than 9 inches from an enemy seems useful.

Rough Riders defiantly got better, beyond the ability to come in off any board edge (9 inch away from an enemy mind you), they also got one extra wound and can use their lances on any turn they charge, not just the first one.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Shining Spears were absolutely NOT fine last edition.

Pointless arguing this now, I suppose. But you're wrong. Did you ever actually take them? Of course you could have just taken scatterbikes instead but that's hardly the point.