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It used to be that you'd kit out an assault squad with two flamers for maximum anti-infantry damage just before you charge.. However, in 8th I'm thinking they may not be worth it.

To start, the assault squad must be placed more than 9" away from enemy models, which is outside the flamer range, and since you deploy them from "high above" at the end of the movement phase the assault squad doesn't get to move. So the flamers are wasted here.

If you drop them in to do some shooting before they assault, or want to delay their charge for a turn for some reason, same thing happens, they can't use the flamers. Additionally, if your opponent decides to charge the assault unit in their turn, unless they move to within 8" you're not going to get the flamers for overwatch. Even then, they're probably going to just task some of the bolters/lasguns/whatevers to gunning down the melee unit you're inexplicably using to shoot with.

They do get to use them if you wipe out a unit and can't consolidate into a new one, however if your assault unit is left hanging out in the open like that they're probably dead after the enemy shooting phase.

Is there anything I'm missing, or should those points just be saved? (To be used on, say, melta guns, or just a plasma pistol)

EDIT: I guess since they can FLY, they can Fall Back from combat and still shoot, however that's assuming they last for 2 rounds of combat (your initial charge + enemy fight phase) which may not happen.

I think they are more useful in some lists than others. Lists that give rerolls to charges, or ability to move in the Psychic or Shooting phases and still shoot/charge, etc.

I think they are better off starting on the board or dropping into or behind cover. They have a decent move and can ignore terrain so they can ambush some hordes. Save your good deep strikes for Vanguard Vets.

I agree it depends on the army. For instance GSC can ambush and get closer than 9. Expensive mixed weapon units that deepstrike can be protected by flamer overwatch. Tau suits bring alot of flamers and can still load up on lots of other dakka.

In general, I think the days of DSing flamers is over. There are still some specific times it might be useful.

They do act as charge deterrence. If something wants to try to get you without being burned, they need to try a long charge. I think this is more relevant for DS shooting units. Unfortunately, they often have to give up other weapon options that would actually work on the drop to take the flamers. But you are going to fail more then half of your DS charges, so having a backup plan isn’t horrible for CC units.

If you can FLY, you can fall back out of CC and still shoot. So you land, and fail your charge. Get your overwatch. Take your licks in CC. Fall back. Burn. This probably works better for larger squads or tougher things. (Just noticed the Land Speeders lost DS, was thinking that would be a fun trick for a 2xHF speeder. Sad) But if your role is not to drop in and kill something, but to act as a screen or exert a zone of control, flamers make decent speedbumps.

Assault Marine’s and others starting on the table should still get a lot of use out of them. But with the price/rules adjustment on plasma pistols, those are going to be my primary load these days. The loss of the chainsword when taking a flamer was also keenly felt. Without the bonus attack for charging you need the extra swings to get the hits in. Or I need to start fielding bigger squads. But for a number of editions now I’ve basically been using them as a flamer delivery system, and I don’t think that’s what they need to do these days.

Work way better with a plasma pistol as is already stated. Deep strike them into cover where they can shoot plasma at something - then if they get ignored they can probably charge any unit they please.

For deepstriking probably not. But since they can advance and fire flamers, starting on the table they have the potential of hitting things 21-26" away. I think small squads with 2 Flamers and a Combi-flamer could be quite useful for this purpose. Though a squad of 3 bikes is probably a bit better for not many more points as they have a guaranteed 28" threat range.

Not unless the unit has a rule that allows you to drop in less than 9" from the enemy models... Otherwise they're probably better spent on guns that can do damage the turn you arrive.

Combi-Flamers are at least a little more respectable, since you can fire the Bolter half when you arrive with no penalty, and get in multiple shots.

Breng77 wrote:
For deepstriking probably not. But since they can advance and fire flamers, starting on the table they have the potential of hitting things 21-26" away. I think small squads with 2 Flamers and a Combi-flamer could be quite useful for this purpose. Though a squad of 3 bikes is probably a bit better for not many more points as they have a guaranteed 28" threat range.

There is also the fact that flamers don't ignore cover anymore...so they aren't even good at killing lite infantry anymore to justify their suicidal range.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Breng77 wrote:
For deepstriking probably not. But since they can advance and fire flamers, starting on the table they have the potential of hitting things 21-26" away. I think small squads with 2 Flamers and a Combi-flamer could be quite useful for this purpose. Though a squad of 3 bikes is probably a bit better for not many more points as they have a guaranteed 28" threat range.

There is also the fact that flamers don't ignore cover anymore...so they aren't even good at killing lite infantry anymore to justify their suicidal range.

My experience begs to differ on the not killing lite infantry, as most lite infantry is either going to have a hard time getting cover, and even if they do will have at best a 4+ save. Averaging 10-11 auto hits (3 flamers) against T3 infantry is killing 4 models. Which is not much different than before really. I will say that for marines they are not as desirable because of their good BS. Armies like Orks are all too happy for auto hits. Also Heavy flamers are amazing.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm not deep striking for an alpha strike. I'm deep striking in cover or behind a building in order to strike the next turn. Infernus pistols for the win.