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A unit of Tyranid Warriors, who have three wounds a piece, takes five hits from a Powerfist which deals d3 wounds per hit. How do you allocate the wounds to the Warriors?

You roll the random damage after wounds are allocated and saves rolled. Wounds are allocated and saved one by one. Roll damage if and only if he fails, and the model that tried to save takes the damage.

8pagesofrules.meme

The process for how to allocate wounds and inflict damage are very clearly spelled out in the shooting section. Page 7. You individually allocate then resolve each wound. This means, for example, if the first wound did 3 damage, it would kill the warrior outright and you'd have to allocate the 2nd wound to another model.

Further I'd like to know peoples interpretation of mixed damage weapons firing at multi wound models. For example; a unit has 4 bolter shots and 3 las cannons against a 3 wound per model unit. According to my interpretation I could - to maximize the number of casualties - roll for them one by one. So, I'd do a las cannon first, and lets say it does 2 wounds. I'd then do the bolter shots until they take the last wound off the model, and then do a las cannon shot again.

This (if my interpretation is correct) seems slow. So better would be to roll las cannons and bolters at the same time and then the shooter can decide which rolls to save, in the same manner as above. Would this be ok rules wise?

arnehelst wrote:
Further I'd like to know peoples interpretation of mixed damage weapons firing at multi wound models. For example; a unit has 4 bolter shots and 3 las cannons against a 3 wound per model unit. According to my interpretation I could - to maximize the number of casualties - roll for them one by one. So, I'd do a las cannon first, and lets say it does 2 wounds. I'd then do the bolter shots until they take the last wound off the model, and then do a las cannon shot again.

This (if my interpretation is correct) seems slow. So better would be to roll las cannons and bolters at the same time and then the shooter can decide which rolls to save, in the same manner as above. Would this be ok rules wise?

No, because the owner of the target unit gets to allocate the wounds, not you.

Now this can lead to shenanigans on wound allocation if your playing TFG, as they could allocate two bolters then a las cannon, two bolters / las cannon and then the last lascannon to minimise casualties. Rolling one weapon at a time would be horrendously slow. A 12 man FW squad at half range with a Fireblade rolls 36 dice! If use assume 5 mins for each man that would mean almost an hour just for the shooting of one unit.

So much for a 'fast' edition of 40K

Cheers

Andrew

Yes, sounds fine.

I think this is why the Fast rolling sidebar restates the caveat:

"Remember, if the target unit contains a model that has already lost any wounds..."

in other words, remember fast rolling may not be optimal in such situations.

7 dice shouldn't be that slow, unless you're one of those people who insist on shaking each die for 5 whole seconds before throwing it

36 dice! If use assume 5 mins for each man

45 whole seconds?

arnehelst wrote:
Further I'd like to know peoples interpretation of mixed damage weapons firing at multi wound models. For example; a unit has 4 bolter shots and 3 las cannons against a 3 wound per model unit. According to my interpretation I could - to maximize the number of casualties - roll for them one by one. So, I'd do a las cannon first, and lets say it does 2 wounds. I'd then do the bolter shots until they take the last wound off the model, and then do a las cannon shot again.

This (if my interpretation is correct) seems slow. So better would be to roll las cannons and bolters at the same time and then the shooter can decide which rolls to save, in the same manner as above. Would this be ok rules wise?

What you propose is totally correct if you think 'fast dice rolling' is optional. I personally think that the way its written 'fast dice rolling' is not optional. A lot of people think my interpretation on fast dice rolling is wrong (and I get that). Hopefully GW will make a FAQ ruling on this one way or another to clear up whether fast dice rolling is something you have to do when the correct parameters occur (that you have multiple weapons with the exact same characteristics) or whether it is something you can always choose not to do (and therefore slow the game down to a crawl if you want).

@yakface:

How can you read the following as not optional?

However, it is possible to speed up your battles by rolling the dice for similar attacks together.

"It is possible" is practically a definition of "optional", if it was not optional words like mandatory, one must, etc.

"However" is used to contradict what was previously stated, the rules are written assuming for one roll at a time.
However...

Pedroig wrote:
@yakface:

How can you read the following as not optional?

However, it is possible to speed up your battles by rolling the dice for similar attacks together.

"It is possible" is practically a definition of "optional", if it was not optional words like mandatory, one must, etc.

"However" is used to contradict what was previously stated, the rules are written assuming for one roll at a time.
However...

How is it possible? IMHO, the rules answer how it is possible, as such (emphasis mine): 'In order to make several attacks at once, all of the attacks must have the same BS or the same WS. They also must have the same Strength, Armour Penetration and Damage characteristics, and they must be directed at the same unit. If this is the case, make all of the hit rolls at the same time, then all of the wound rolls.'

If you look at only parts of the rule it can appear 'optional' but when you read how the rule really works it says if you have attacks that meet the criteria, then you make all of the hit rolls at the same time and then all of the wound rolls.

If it were truly optional, then the 'you can' would need to be here: 'If this is the case, [you can] make all of the hit rolls at the same time.'

Obviously I would never hold someone's feet to the fire and demand that's the way they should play, but I do believe that although the rules when you first read them suggest that fast rolling is totally optional, once you break down the actual fast rolling procedures, I feel as though it says you are supposed to fast roll if you meet the specified criteria to do so.

Sequencing my friend. You are applying the mandatory parts of the optional rule to making the optional rule mandatory.

Sort of like choosing powers or rolling for canticles, if you choose a canticle that turn, you may not take a canticle that has already been used. If you roll for a canticle, then you take whatever the result is. You don't apply either rule to the other.

IF you choose to use FAST DICE THEN you must meet the criteria and follow the rules of FAST DICE. The first IF qualifies the THEN.

They did make it harder by putting so many rules into sidebars, which is stupid imho. But words mean things, it is possible, however, those both appear in the first paragraph of the sidebar, they are the qualifiers to the sidebar and all the rules contained therein.

RAW, all rolls are made one at a time. Sidebar, if you don't want to make all rolls one at a time, you must follow the following for ANY rolls not made one at a time.

"In order to..." is a qualifier statement, it is an IF test,, defined by "if this is the case", they leave out then, because it is implied, THEN "make all of the hit rolls..." ELSE you MUST roll one result at a time. (the default rule)

So IF you choose to roll FAST DICE, THEN you check to make sure you meet all qualifiers, IF you do THEN you make all rolls which qualify at once, ELSE you must roll the results one at a time.

"The rules for resolving attacks [that appear on page 181] have been written assuming you will make them one at a time."

There is no way that the fast dice rule is anything but optional, RAW.

Thus it is entirely possible to:

1. Resolve an attack with a D3 weapon
2. If the target dies, resolve another D3 weapon
3. If the target lives. resolve enough single-damage weapons to finish it off, then resolve the second D3 weapon

The attacked player allocates the wounds, but they are constrained to allocate the single-damage hits to the wounded model.

RAW, this is an excellent tactic. However, it seems extremely WAAC/TFG playstyle.

Clearly we need a revision to stop this kind of behavior, which will bog down play if it becomes widespread. It's quite literally intentional slow play, as you are resolving things slowly for advantage.

There's a few limitations to the Fast Dice Rolling rule:

In order to make several attacks at once, all of the attacks must have the same Ballistic Skill (if it’s a shooting attack) or the same Weapon Skill (if it’s a close combat attack). They must also have the same Strength, Armour Penetration and Damage characteristics, and they must be directed at the same unit. If this is the case, make all of the hit rolls at the same time, then all of the wound rolls.

So unless you have that one in a million chance where two different weapons have the exact same stats, you'll only be able to use Fast Dice Rolling for a single type of weapon at a time.

Your opponent can then allocate the wounds one at a time, making the saving throws and suffering damage each time as appropriate.

Clear enough. Wound allocation, saving throws and damage are done one at a time.

 Ghaz wrote:
There's a few limitations to the Fast Dice Rolling rule:

In order to make several attacks at once, all of the attacks must have the same Ballistic Skill (if it’s a shooting attack) or the same Weapon Skill (if it’s a close combat attack). They must also have the same Strength, Armour Penetration and Damage characteristics, and they must be directed at the same unit. If this is the case, make all of the hit rolls at the same time, then all of the wound rolls.

So unless you have that one in a million chance where two different weapons have the exact same stats, you'll only be able to use Fast Dice Rolling for a single type of weapon at a time.

This is easily circumvented by rolling different coloured dice to represent different weapons and/ or different profiles. just remember to assign and inform your opponent before rolling. also, if representing different weapons to wound, it helps to distinguish before rolling what wound pool you want applied first so there's no arguments on selecting for best effect. wounds roll as saves are failed.

Actually it's all up to the shooter. As the rules state "attacks can be made one at a time, OR you can roll for multiple attacks together.

So yes you can fire 1 lascannon, resolve it, then a bolter, resolve, it and so on.