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Let's focus on tyranids as the entire army or as the main force of the army with allies.

I think one of our biggest issues is how to deal with flyers. Now that you can field an entire army of flyers, I can't really see how we can deal with that.

Another challenge is large screening units, we do have some options to deal with those, but I'd like to hear what you guys think, do we stand a chance of reaching the top 3 positions in the bigger tournaments?

There is an entire tactica thread for discussing this. Arguably 2.

Eh this is kinda focused.


Chance of getting top 3 in a major tournament? Well, as great as Nids CC is vs some armies, if we don't find a way to deal with flyers, probably zero.... Stormraven spam will be hard to play around.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Eh this is kinda focused so I think it stands on its own.

Chance of getting top 3 in a major tournament? Well, as great as Nids CC is vs some armies, if we don't find a way to deal with flyers, probably zero.... Stormraven spam will be hard to play around.

Okey, so how would we go about making a tyranids list with AM and GSC allies that would take down those stormravens?

 killerpenguin wrote:
Let's focus on tyranids as the entire army or as the main force of the army with allies.

I think one of our biggest issues is how to deal with flyers. Now that you can field an entire army of flyers, I can't really see how we can deal with that.

Another challenge is large screening units, we do have some options to deal with those, but I'd like to hear what you guys think, do we stand a chance of reaching the top 3 positions in the bigger tournaments?

Thinking about this list:

SPEARHEAD DETACHMENT

HQ: Malanthrope

TROOPS:
20 gaunts (10 with devourers)
+
DEDICATED TRANSPORT-
Tyrannocyte + barbed stranglers

TROOPS:
20 gaunts (10 with devourers)
+
DEDICATED TRANSPORT-
Tyrannocyte + barbed stranglers

FAST ATTACK: 3 myotic spores

HS: 3 biovores
HS: 3 biovores
HS: 3 biovores
HS: 3 biovores
HS: 3 biovores
HS: 3 biovores

SPEARHEAD DETACHMENT

HQ: Malanthrope

HS: 3 biovores
HS: 3 biovores
HS: Mawloc
HS: Mawloc
HS: Mawloc

This armylist got options. The amount of biovore mines will make every elite army sweat and big infantry gunlines could face a lot of 48 inch shooting before the mawloc's and tyrannocytes + guants drop in.
Myotic spores can deploy outside 12 inch from the enemy after deployment to make sure the enemies army cannot drop to close if I don't want to. Against stormravens it's a big deal if you go first or not. If my army goes first it got a good chance of winning because I could take one stormraven out and the other stormravens cannot linger in their deployment zone because of all the spore mines floating around. That means my mawloc's can 'burrow again and the mortal wounds start to add up. Devourer gaunts + tyrannocytes could also steal a few stormravens wounds and are great anti-infantry against other list. 18 inch devourers could kill a bunch of guard infantry and after that the biovore mines drop in forcing other guard infantry models to stay outside rapid fire range.

My amount of biovores maybe a bit over the top and other players might not like it but it actually forces other (elite) gunlines to move. Tau gunline could be thinking; "damn I cannot take this biovores shooting for 3 turns!!"

shogun wrote:

 killerpenguin wrote:
Let's focus on tyranids as the entire army or as the main force of the army with allies.

I think one of our biggest issues is how to deal with flyers. Now that you can field an entire army of flyers, I can't really see how we can deal with that.

Another challenge is large screening units, we do have some options to deal with those, but I'd like to hear what you guys think, do we stand a chance of reaching the top 3 positions in the bigger tournaments?

Thinking about this list:

SPEARHEAD DETACHMENT

HQ: Malanthrope

TROOPS:
20 gaunts (10 with devourers)
+
DEDICATED TRANSPORT-
Tyrannocyte + barbed stranglers

TROOPS:
20 gaunts (10 with devourers)
+
DEDICATED TRANSPORT-
Tyrannocyte + barbed stranglers

FAST ATTACK: 3 myotic spores

HS: 3 biovores
HS: 3 biovores
HS: 3 biovores
HS: 3 biovores
HS: 3 biovores
HS: 3 biovores

SPEARHEAD DETACHMENT

HQ: Malanthrope

HS: 3 biovores
HS: 3 biovores
HS: Mawloc
HS: Mawloc
HS: Mawloc

This armylist got options. The amount of biovore mines will make every elite army sweat and big infantry gunlines could face a lot of 48 inch shooting before the mawloc's and tyrannocytes + guants drop in.
Myotic spores can deploy outside 12 inch from the enemy after deployment to make sure the enemies army cannot drop to close if I don't want to. Against stormravens it's a big deal if you go first or not. If my army goes first it got a good chance of winning because I could take one stormraven out and the other stormravens cannot linger in their deployment zone because of all the spore mines floating around. That means my mawloc's can 'burrow again and the mortal wounds start to add up. Devourer gaunts + tyrannocytes could also steal a few stormravens wounds and are great anti-infantry against other list. 18 inch devourers could kill a bunch of guard infantry and after that the biovore mines drop in forcing other guard infantry models to stay outside rapid fire range.

My amount of biovores maybe a bit over the top and other players might not like it but it actually forces other (elite) gunlines to move. Tau gunline could be thinking; "damn I cannot take this biovores shooting for 3 turns!!"

Interesting. But Dang! that is a Lot of Biovores I think just being able to force the ravens into Hover opens up several options...

If you we're gonna buy that army it would cost 948$ just for the biovores.

Well, Biovores are an easy conversion. They are basically just described as living artillery. You can attach a Rupture Cannon to something resembling a living platform for it and it's a Biovore, and likely looks even better than the terrible official model they have.

On the other hand though, I'm yet to be convinced by their competitive impact. It's mortal wounds yes, but its not very many of them especially for the price. The combined weight of that list takes 2 turns to kill a single Stormraven. Best believe that they won't be so gentle in return lol

nm

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
If you are going to play like that just quit 40k now

You could say the same about stormraven spam?

Spam lists will work themselves out. It only takes them hitting their counter list a few times or playing dynamic scoring missions.

Reserve strikes.
I watched this in a tournament on the weekend - allied with Genestealer cult, one of the Nid guys took on Ghostkeel/Drone cheese in the third round, he ambushed the cult around so the Tau player simply ran out of places to jump to that he wasn't going to be attacked and used the Nids' movility to re-enforce them.
The Nid player got reduced to three models but the Tau player got board wiped.

SHUPPET wrote: On the other hand though, I'm yet to be convinced by their competitive impact. It's mortal wounds yes, but its not very many of them especially for the price. The combined weight of that list takes 2 turns to kill a single Stormraven. Best believe that they won't be so gentle in return lol

It's got its weaknesses but as long as my floating mines are capable of assaulting it's a good deal. If the enemies army got a lot of cheap lasguns/bolters it's going to be harder to deal with, because he can afford to remove the mines cheap.

Against the stormravens: 24 biovores shooting = 8 hits/8 wounds ( and 16 spore mines floating around) + two mawlocs = 4 mortal wounds (against a single stormraven but maybe the third mawloc could also damage it) + 2 tyrannocyte and 40 guants shooting = 1 dead stormraven. But it's all about who's got the first turn.

killerpenguin wrote:If you we're gonna buy that army it would cost 948$ just for the biovores.

I'am not going to buy the original GW model, believe me!

Jaq Draco lives wrote:If you are going to play like that just quit 40k now

We are talking about tournament armylist and the competitive possibilities for tyranids. This list got a lot of weaknesses against other specific armylists and how is this any different then an armored company with nothing but tanks moving forward and shoot the crap out of the enemy? My list stil got 3 mawloc's and 2x tyrannocytes for bringing the fight to them.

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
If you are going to play like that just quit 40k now

You must hate me right now...

I like what I see.
How are you making/representing the mines?

shogun wrote:

SHUPPET wrote: On the other hand though, I'm yet to be convinced by their competitive impact. It's mortal wounds yes, but its not very many of them especially for the price. The combined weight of that list takes 2 turns to kill a single Stormraven. Best believe that they won't be so gentle in return lol

It's got its weaknesses but as long as my floating mines are capable of assaulting it's a good deal. If the enemies army got a lot of cheap lasguns/bolters it's going to be harder to deal with, because he can afford to remove the mines cheap.

Against the stormravens: 24 biovores shooting = 8 hits/8 wounds ( and 16 spore mines floating around) + two mawlocs = 4 mortal wounds (against a single stormraven but maybe the third mawloc could also damage it) + 2 tyrannocyte and 40 guants shooting = 1 dead stormraven. But it's all about who's got the first turn.

I like your train of thought, two Mawlocs might not be consistent tho because of the 6" range restriction on deploying Mawlocs within each other. Also, on their return turn, two remaining Stormravens burn out of range of the Gants, and each kill a Biovore squad, the Mawlocs have to reburrow and you don't even have enough shooting left to even take one of them below half health before they take another turn and do it again. And thats not even account for the 4th stormraven and 2x Stormhawks. Not saying your list is bad, but it definitely has the same hole that assaulty lists have.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SideshowLucifer wrote:
Spam lists will work themselves out. It only takes them hitting their counter list a few times or playing dynamic scoring missions.

this is nonsense, Tyranid players know first hand that full flyer lists are a legitimate competitive threat that you will consistently see, even if it has counters. I too don't like playing a list with hard counters I prefer TAC, but most Nid players last edition were running max Flyrants, and best believe Stormraven will be a list you see a lot of if nothing changes.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
I like what I see.
How are you making/representing the mines?

Got that covered. I just might need a few more....






Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SHUPPET wrote:

shogun wrote:

SHUPPET wrote: On the other hand though, I'm yet to be convinced by their competitive impact. It's mortal wounds yes, but its not very many of them especially for the price. The combined weight of that list takes 2 turns to kill a single Stormraven. Best believe that they won't be so gentle in return lol

It's got its weaknesses but as long as my floating mines are capable of assaulting it's a good deal. If the enemies army got a lot of cheap lasguns/bolters it's going to be harder to deal with, because he can afford to remove the mines cheap.

Against the stormravens: 24 biovores shooting = 8 hits/8 wounds ( and 16 spore mines floating around) + two mawlocs = 4 mortal wounds (against a single stormraven but maybe the third mawloc could also damage it) + 2 tyrannocyte and 40 guants shooting = 1 dead stormraven. But it's all about who's got the first turn.

I like your train of thought, two Mawlocs might not be consistent tho because of the 6" range restriction on deploying Mawlocs within each other. Also, on their return turn, two remaining Stormravens burn out of range of the Gants, and each kill a Biovore squad, the Mawlocs have to reburrow and you don't even have enough shooting left to even take one of them below half health before they take another turn and do it again. And thats not even account for the 4th stormraven and 2x Stormhawks. Not saying your list is bad, but it definitely has the same hole that assaulty lists have.

I did a few tests and the stormravens are just to damn flexible. If the cannot fly the can still move 20 inch and be comfortable outside range and keep shooting. Forcing them to hover is really hard to pull of, in a beneficial way, at least. I like the option of having tyrannocytes that could assault the flyers and force them to hover but the also make a juicy target for the stormhawks. Best case scenario I could kill 2 stormravens and got enough stuff to take the mission without getting killed in the end.

If tournaments allow 3+ detachments I have to go for the aegis defence line. I could also consider GSC magus for cheap 'smite' and the ability to let a stormraven shoot another stormraven. Also not being able to overwatch could help out my spore mines.

The problem I got is the fact that units can use overwatch against my floating spore mines (each).

SHUPPET wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SideshowLucifer wrote:
Spam lists will work themselves out. It only takes them hitting their counter list a few times or playing dynamic scoring missions.

this is nonsense, Tyranid players know first hand that full flyer lists are a legitimate competitive threat that you will consistently see, even if it has counters. I too don't like playing a list with hard counters I prefer TAC, but most Nid players last edition were running max Flyrants, and best believe Stormraven will be a list you see a lot of if nothing changes.

Some stuff is just very good to spam in a tournament setting. This is one and it will not be the last one.

The all flier list is a problem for my list, but I can, and have beaten it before (though lost more than I won). The only non-Nid thing I use in my entire list is a Void Shield Generator and I don't really spam any particular unit.

Against the all flier list, keep your melee only stuff in reserves as long as possible to just grab the objectives and use your ranged to take out as many fliers as you can. as long as you can knock down 2 or 3, you should win on objective play as long as the game doesn't go a ridiculous length.

Also bin thinking about this list:

2000P

Battalion detachment:

HQ: Flying hive tyrant +deathspitters + adr glands + toxin sacs
HQ: Flying hive tyrant +deathspitters + adr glands + toxin sacs

TROOPS: 3 rippers
TROOPS: 3 rippers
TROOPS: 3 rippers

ELITE: 6 tyrant guard
ELITE: 4 tyrant guard

TRANSPORT: 1x tyrannocyte (deathspitters)

Supreme command detachment

HQ: malanthrope
HQ: Flying hive tyrant +deathspitters + adr glands + toxin sacs
HQ: Flying hive tyrant +deathspitters + adr glands + toxin sacs
HQ: Flying hive tyrant +deathspitters + adr glands + toxin sacs
HQ: Flying hive tyrant +deathspitters + adr glands + toxin sacs

Deploy Hive tyrants + malanthrope within 3 inch of the 4 tyrant guards. All incoming shooting goes towards the tyrant guards first. Next turn deep strike the tyrannocyte with 6 tyrant guards mid field and fly with all hive tyrants within 3 inch and cast catalyst on the tyrant guards. Next turn the hive tyrants can go to town.

Also possible to deploy 6 tyrant guard and drop 4 tyrant guard mid field. 6 tyrant guard with -1 to hit and 2+ in cover can take a lot of stormraven shooting.

shogun wrote:

Spoiler:

Also bin thinking about this list:

2000P

Battalion detachment:

HQ: Flying hive tyrant +deathspitters + adr glands + toxin sacs
HQ: Flying hive tyrant +deathspitters + adr glands + toxin sacs

TROOPS: 3 rippers
TROOPS: 3 rippers
TROOPS: 3 rippers

ELITE: 6 tyrant guard
ELITE: 4 tyrant guard

TRANSPORT: 1x tyrannocyte (deathspitters)

Supreme command detachment

HQ: malanthrope
HQ: Flying hive tyrant +deathspitters + adr glands + toxin sacs
HQ: Flying hive tyrant +deathspitters + adr glands + toxin sacs
HQ: Flying hive tyrant +deathspitters + adr glands + toxin sacs
HQ: Flying hive tyrant +deathspitters + adr glands + toxin sacs

Deploy Hive tyrants + malanthrope within 3 inch of the 4 tyrant guards. All incoming shooting goes towards the tyrant guards first. Next turn deep strike the tyrannocyte with 6 tyrant guards mid field and fly with all hive tyrants within 3 inch and cast catalyst on the tyrant guards. Next turn the hive tyrants can go to town.

Also possible to deploy 6 tyrant guard and drop 4 tyrant guard mid field. 6 tyrant guard with -1 to hit and 2+ in cover can take a lot of stormraven shooting.

I just don't think that list is going to work the way you think it does. There's no synergy after turn one besides target saturation which is really the only thing I see going for it. No CC weapons on the tyrants? So you're max strength 6 and just hoping to rely on 6 smites a turn for heavy stuff? Blobs are going to slow you down but hey you get to retreat and shoot so thats one thing...


I just posted in the real tyranid thread as well but what are your thoughts on powers. In a list like that what are you choosing and hoping to do with your powers? Just catalyst and smite? You're wasting a min of 3 powers every turn by matched play rules. Everything in this thread just seems a repeat of the teen pages of the other thread so I'm hoping something interesting will crop up over here.

Requiet wrote:

I just don't think that list is going to work the way you think it does. There's no synergy after turn one besides target saturation which is really the only thing I see going for it. No CC weapons on the tyrants? So you're max strength 6 and just hoping to rely on 6 smites a turn for heavy stuff? Blobs are going to slow you down but hey you get to retreat and shoot so thats one thing...

I think that 72 deathspitter shots + 6 smites + assaulting hive tyrants with toxin sacs, could be enough to bring down the heavy stuff. I think that deathspitters + normal S6 attacks are better then close combat tyrants. I could give a tyrant some talons but then it will have a big bulls eye on his head. This list is all about getting the full hive tyrant's force unscratched to the enemies front line.

Requiet wrote:
I just posted in the real tyranid thread as well but what are your thoughts on powers. In a list like that what are you choosing and hoping to do with your powers? Just catalyst and smite? You're wasting a min of 3 powers every turn by matched play rules. Everything in this thread just seems a repeat of the teen pages of the other thread so I'm hoping something interesting will crop up over here.

I look at it at different way. With 6 hive tyrants I can count on having 'catalyst' even when a few hive tyrants die. Horror and onslaught are just bonus-powers. I was thinking about dropping a single hive tyrant and add 3 GSC magus. This way I could have 2 more 'smite' and cast 2 extra powers that disturbs the enemies army. This way I could get that knight or baneblade to shoot his own units. But 200+ points for a little disturbing psychic power is a big price tag.

shogun wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
If you are going to play like that just quit 40k now

You must hate me right now...

Cool models! How did you build the Biovores, if I may ask? I don't own any and would like to build them.

 Astmeister wrote:

shogun wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
If you are going to play like that just quit 40k now

You must hate me right now...

Cool models! How did you build the Biovores, if I may ask? I don't own any and would like to build them.

I don't build them. I'am a successful mold maker..

shogun wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:

shogun wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
If you are going to play like that just quit 40k now

You must hate me right now...

Cool models! How did you build the Biovores, if I may ask? I don't own any and would like to build them.

I don't build them. I'am a successful mold maker..

3D Printer?

Ignore this...double post.

I have no idea how this works. Do you design the models in a computer program and buy the mold online?
Or did you use an original Biovore to make a form? And then you put in liquid Resin?

I think it is too adavanced for me, anyways. ;-)

 Astmeister wrote:
I have no idea how this works. Do you design the models in a computer program and buy the mold online?
Or did you use an original Biovore to make a form? And then you put in liquid Resin?

I think it is too adavanced for me, anyways. ;-)

No, it's not that complicated.

I glued the original biovore parts on the bottom of a plastic jar and poured some silicon on it and let it dry. Removed the jar and the biovore parts and I can just fill the mold with resin. After one and a half hour its dry and I remove the new parts.

Nice! I think I have to try this as well. Did you use any online or whatever tutorials for this? Or just trial and error?

We are totally spamming this thread with off-topic stuff, sorry.

I like the three magus over the one tyrant idea. Those powers are bonkers

Could the old "sea of blades" strategy work well in 8e? Let's assume that the enemy has little to no flyers.

Something along the lines of a crap ton of hormies, swarmlord l, venomthropes for cover?