Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, I've now played eight or nine games in 8th, and in my observation, I think that cheesing lists for double-Brigades is generally not going to be a problem, because I've run three single-Brigade lists, and never once have I reached the end of the game and thought, 'Man, I could really use nine more Command Points.'

In short, there's just not enough ways to use them at the moment, so having more than 12-13 is just gratuitous - The game is so bloody that it'll almost always be decided by turn three unless you've got two tanky armies with low damage output going against each other, and each of the three options you can spend your CPs on are only important for some army types.

(For clarity: I play Orks and Imperium (No Guard or AdMech, but a little bit of everything else), I have thus far played with pure Space Wolves, Orks, Pure Sisters, and generic 'Imperium'.

Going down the list:
Re-rolls are only helpful if your army has low-volume, high-damage shots, and for things that don't already have access to Re-rolls. Getting a re-roll for an Ork army is generally not great for most circumstances, you don't need it for charges because you already re-roll those charges. It's great for my Sisters and Marines, but less necessary for my Orks with a few key exceptions. They'll definitely be used, but while my Imperium armies are usually using 3-4 rerolls per turn, my Orks are using 1-2.

Autopassing Leadership has almost never mattered for me. My Orks are usually able to ignore Leadership thanks to hordes of boys, MSU, or a nearby Warboss, and my Imperium are high enough leadership and small enough squads that by the time they're taking Leadership, the whole unit is probably already dead. I can see this being useful for a couple armies, but it's not going to be used often for a lot of armies.

Intercepting assault can be really, really useful, but only in specific circumstances. If you army has no good melee choices, then it's pointless. If your opponents army has no good melee choices, then it's pointless. When both of you have good melee choices and are getting involved in boardwide assaults, then it becomes really interesting and useful!


Generally, though, it seems like '12' is the magic number where you might run out, but you'll probably be near the end of the game and not need them anymore by the time that you do. You can technically spend 15 in a single turn if you use the maximum possible amount allowed, (Re-rolling advance, Psychic, shooting, charging, fighting, Leadership, deny-the-witch, a save in your opponent's shooting, and another fight, interrupting combat order, and autopassing two morale checks,) but the actual practical number seems to amount to about four or five - You probably won't be interrupting combat order on turn 1, you won't need to autopass morale on both player turns if you have to do that at all, you won't be re-rolling morale and autopassing morale on the same turn unless you need to take a TON of tests, and you probably won't need re-rolls in half the phases, much less all of them.)


So... What seems to be the magic number where you play? What's your bottle-neck - The number of CPs, the opportunities to use them well, or how quickly you can spend them?

Ive had 7 8 or 9 in my lists. In one game I managed to use up all 8. There is about 2 or 3 on average used in a game turn and like you said, turn 1 you seem to use less. By turn 4 there are very few models left to use the CP.

So Detachment spamming doesn't seem to be a problem.

1-Seize the Init
7-7 Turns of Movement
7-7 Turns of Physic
7-7 Turns of Shooting
7-7 Turns of Charging
14-7 Turns of Combat
14-7 Turns of Morale

By my count, you'll never need more than 57 CP, using only base strategems.

Well, if you're sacrificing quality of build to get more command points you're probably playing a sub-optimal list. However, gaming out max command points with essentially the same build is just good general 40K practice. If you can squeak out an extra re-roll or two by gaming the detachments then you should, it's as easy as that, although that whole notion is, to me anyway, secondary to putting the right army on the table.

 JNAProductions wrote:
1-Seize the Init
7-7 Turns of Movement
7-7 Turns of Physic
7-7 Turns of Shooting
7-7 Turns of Charging
14-7 Turns of Combat
14-7 Turns of Morale

By my count, you'll never need more than 57 CP, using only base strategems.

Your math seems off.
As far as I can see it:
1 - Seize the Init
7 - 7 Turns of movement
14 - 14 Phases of Psychics (Manifesting and Denying the Witch)
14 - 14 Phases of Shooting (Attacking and Saving throws)
14 - 14 Phases of Charging (Charging and Overwatch)
14 - 7 uses of Counter-Offensive
14 - 14 Phases of Combat (Both player's turns)
14 - 14 Phases of Leadership
28 - 14 uses of Insane Bravery

For a total of 120 possible Command Points, given maximum usage.

My math was indeed wrong. I completely forgot using CP on your OPPONENT'S turn.

Derp.

Waaaghpower wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
1-Seize the Init
7-7 Turns of Movement
7-7 Turns of Physic
7-7 Turns of Shooting
7-7 Turns of Charging
14-7 Turns of Combat
14-7 Turns of Morale

By my count, you'll never need more than 57 CP, using only base strategems.

Your math seems off.
As far as I can see it:
1 - Seize the Init
7 - 7 Turns of movement
14 - 14 Phases of Psychics (Manifesting and Denying the Witch)
14 - 14 Phases of Shooting (Attacking and Saving throws)
14 - 14 Phases of Charging (Charging and Overwatch)
14 - 7 uses of Counter-Offensive
14 - 14 Phases of Combat (Both player's turns)
14 - 14 Phases of Leadership
28 - 14 uses of Insane Bravery

For a total of 120 possible Command Points, given maximum usage.

Also, one of the two game end rolls, the roll off for determining deployment zone, and the roll to determine the type of deployment zones, although it's questionable if the deployment ones fall in the same "phase" as seize.

Why is it 14 points for charging phase?

you cannot charge on your opponents turn?

There is no such thing as "too many"! All in excess! ALL IN EXCESS! THINGS WILL GET LOUD NOW!

I forget about cp........


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All the time.......


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I run lists with 6, but still forget to use it.........

 admironheart wrote:
Why is it 14 points for charging phase?

you cannot charge on your opponents turn?

You could reroll an overwatch shot.

 JNAProductions wrote:
1-Seize the Init
7-7 Turns of Movement
7-7 Turns of Physic
7-7 Turns of Shooting
7-7 Turns of Charging
14-7 Turns of Combat
14-7 Turns of Morale

By my count, you'll never need more than 57 CP, using only base strategems.

But you can also reroll saves during their shooting or deny the witch during their psychic. (Though you really won't use that many.)

 fwlr wrote:
I forget about cp........


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All the time.......


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I run lists with 6, but still forget to use it.........

I never forget my cp, mainly because I have incredibly comically bad dice rolls and finally being able to mitigate it some is a godsend. So far in 8e, I have spent a CP on my first roll of the game in all but 2 games. (Usually my infamous vindicaire missing his first 2+ to hit shot on my first shooting phase, or Mephiston periling himself throwing up a shield.)

Compand points are specific to your army composition.

Use's for command points that will matter and how they will be used most will be:

2+ saves or 3 or 4+ invuln saves for characters or expensive units. 1-5CP

GSC have cult ambush and roll a d6 on how they get into the table, and can be very important to turn 1 charges. Similar mechanics exist for the calidus. I know thier is atleast once more such ability. In the same vehicle as this many healing skills have you roll dice. (1-3)

If you have deep strike units of any kind that hit the table 9" away you'll want command points to get a 52-44% chance to connect (depending on how aggressively you reroll). 1-3CP (only 3 turns of deep striking available)

In the shooting/attack phase the only CP super worth using it's wound rolls of 2-4+ or for D6 attacks or damage weapons as those are the most 'cost effective' CP uses. 1-5CP x2

If your playing a melee heavy army vs another melee heavy army your probably gonna burn through ALOT of CP using counter attack. 2-10CP

If you have big units you'll use command point on the morale thing. 2-10CP.



Other have mentioned other use, but i think alot of the CP is list dependent. You wont be hard pressed to use command point reroll's on a concript save or a concript melee attack in most cases. You also won't be using CP for thier morale.

In this way i think you could build your army around being augmented heavily by command points.

At any point where you're putting tax units in your list just to fill out slots you have too many CPs.

I find myself wondering if I have fallen into the Command Points trap every time I use one for the re-roll and it comes up with the same damn number.

OP, I find my Orks using CP moreso than my Loyalist Marine army, I use the re-rolls for the d3 on Lootaz, and the interrupt Charge order one frequently.

But I only had 4 games so far.