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I also have an opinion on Fexes with different loadouts:

The Crushing Claw Fex is certainly not good, but is better against T7+ than the ST Version.

Crushing Claws vs T7 3+ Save

4*1/3*2/3*5/6*3 = 0.74 wounds = 2.22 damage

2x Scything Talons vs T7 3+ Save

4* 7/12*1/3*5/6*3 = 0.65 wounds = 1.94 damage

And the Crushing Claws version is just 1 pt more. So it is definitely worth it against T7+. Also the Thresher scythe is really usefull with Crushing claws, because you will have two very different weapons against heavy tanks and light infantry.
Of course the Stonecrusher Fex is much better in melee against vehicles, but it has no shooting at all.

I would personally really try to run 2-3x Carnifex with Crushing Claws and HVC and a Fex with HVC. Of course they are quite bad, but they are one of the few things against heavy vehicles. And 4 HVC can do something against most tanks in the game on 36 inch as well. Also the HVC are much better against infantry than LasCans. So why not?

I am not running crushing claws on fexes.

The only place to have crushing claws in the army is on tyrant guards. Where they are S10 and hit on 4+.

Did we have a points breakdown on devourers vs deathspitters?

 Astmeister wrote:

Toxicrene
The tentacled beast is now a Heavy Support choice. It has plenty of attacks, some very short ranged anti-infantry shooting and unfortunately low AP.

It has always been heavy support.

 Astmeister wrote:

I actually think that the Toxicrene is one of the worst units in the entire Tyranid arsenal. It is meant to be used as mass infantery killer. . This means that the thing can kill about 3-4 Guard Infantry in melee, which is quite frankly underwhelming for a huge monster which should be good at killing infantry. Against heavy infantry or vehicles it just fails misserably

I don't think it is really intended to specialize against hoard infantry as much as just be a general purpose melee unit with tools to do a bit of everything while remaining fairly inexpensive (it is the cheapest T7 12W monster in faction). The only thing it has that really skews towards hoards is the Hypertoxic Miasma, since it gets more rolls with more models in range. The rest of its kit seem geared towards hunting middle toughness/multi-wound models, relying on the volume of attacks and universal ability to reroll failed to wound rolls to force wounds through so the D3 damage characteristic can insure kills.

For what it is worth, I haven't had an opportunity to run my Toxicrine yet. I have seen them used at our shop to good effect however, as one of our regulars fields one as part of his 'nidzilla list on a regular basis.

 Strat_N8 wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:

Toxicrene
The tentacled beast is now a Heavy Support choice. It has plenty of attacks, some very short ranged anti-infantry shooting and unfortunately low AP.

It has always been heavy support.

 Astmeister wrote:

I actually think that the Toxicrene is one of the worst units in the entire Tyranid arsenal. It is meant to be used as mass infantery killer. . This means that the thing can kill about 3-4 Guard Infantry in melee, which is quite frankly underwhelming for a huge monster which should be good at killing infantry. Against heavy infantry or vehicles it just fails misserably

I don't think it is really intended to specialize against hoard infantry as much as just be a general purpose melee unit with tools to do a bit of everything while remaining fairly inexpensive (it is the cheapest T7 12W monster in faction). The only thing it has that really skews towards hoards is the Hypertoxic Miasma, since it gets more rolls with more models in range. The rest of its kit seem geared towards hunting middle toughness/multi-wound models, relying on the volume of attacks and universal ability to reroll failed to wound rolls to force wounds through so the D3 damage characteristic can insure kills.

For what it is worth, I haven't had an opportunity to run my Toxicrine yet. I have seen them used at our shop to good effect however, as one of our regulars fields one as part of his 'nidzilla list on a regular basis.

That us interesting. I don't really see it being necessary in any way, but why not give it a try. I am biased, since i do not like the model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh btw:
1 Fex with HVC + crushing claws is actually 2 times better against T8+ tanks than the dakkafex with 2x Deathspitters.

Did a test game with my biovore army:

Broodlord
Malanthrope
2x 20 guants with 10x devourer upgrade each
2x tyrannocytes

8x3 biovores
3 Mawlocs (not in the picture/deep strike reserve)

3 mieotic spore mines

Broodlord + malanthrope in the middle of the biovore pack and termagaunts + tyrannocyte as a screen. Mawlocs in reserve

https://flic.kr/p/WEdFiY

Played against Magnus + 3x daemon prince + B'lakor + 50 brimstone/blue horrors + 3 exalted flamers + changeling + tzeentch hell drake

The great thing about this list is the fact that it forces the enemy to come to you. The enemy does not have a lot op anti-infantry shooting so my spore mines cannot be wiped of the board easily. Magnus (warp time) + hell drake could only assault my gaunt screen. Next turn the gaunts in cc with hell drake fall back and I shoot down the hell drake (in combination with deathspitter) + deploy 12 spore mines! You want to cast smite? My spore mine is the closest so you have got to pick him. Daemon Prince character I cannot choose to shoot? I shoot the unit in front of you and deploy 12+ mines.

I was very protective with my biovores against the Daemon princes but with 4 wounds each the can actually take a punch. 7 attacks, 6 hit, 4 wounds, 1-saved thats 3 wounds with 2 damage so 1 dead biovore and another one wounded. Then the fall back and the other biovores shoot him to pieces. If the don't, then the floating mines take care of it next turn.

2 Mawloc's did 5 mortal wound on Magnus, burrowed, and start killing horrors in the backfield.

Also like the tyrannocyte's for being able to fly in and out of close combat. The can keep stuff busy and fall back at the right time and let the biovores finish the job.

Next time I do a test game against some GSC Genestealers...!

good for you he played only 3 exalted, most top lists i saw plays at least 6 or more, in that case ur gaunt screen wont last long

shogun wrote:

Did a test game with my biovore army:

[snip]

Just as a thought, but what about perhaps replacing the Tyrannocytes with Sporocysts? Admittedly they cannot deliver Termagants or assault fliers, but they do pump out extra spore mines (or Mucolid Spores if desired) and count as synapse creatures while in synapse which would allow you to spread out a bit more for objective grabbing.

 Strat_N8 wrote:

shogun wrote:

Did a test game with my biovore army:

[snip]

Just as a thought, but what about perhaps replacing the Tyrannocytes with Sporocysts? Admittedly they cannot deliver Termagants or assault fliers, but they do pump out extra spore mines (or Mucolid Spores if desired) and count as synapse creatures while in synapse which would allow you to spread out a bit more for objective grabbing.

It's to static and the spore mines are only produced if the weapon misses a target within 9 inch. If there is an enemy target within 9 inch, it's got bigger problems. If I want more synapse I rather pick another malanthrope. Tyrannocytes give you options and only the guants I deep strike outside synapse range could be facing extra morale casualties. But I would only do that if their devourers did a number on the enemy first. Tyrannocytes also pack a nice amount of wounds and are capable of assaulting a strong close combat unit and keep it busy for on or two turns. The can also assault a unit first, lock it in close combat, and then the mines can assault without facing overwatch.

Against hordes I could deep strike the gaunts at the flank and shoot down a big amount of bodies. Then I shoot the biovores at the next infantry unit and block the path with mines so that the other infantry units cannot reach the guants and cannot move closer for rapid fire or pistol-shots etc.

 Strat_N8 wrote:

shogun wrote:

Did a test game with my biovore army:

[snip]

Just as a thought, but what about perhaps replacing the Tyrannocytes with Sporocysts? Admittedly they cannot deliver Termagants or assault fliers, but they do pump out extra spore mines (or Mucolid Spores if desired) and count as synapse creatures while in synapse which would allow you to spread out a bit more for objective grabbing.

I could see using one those in a game. I had the pleasure of playing my first game against the Sisters of Battle (OMG) last night and could have used one of those to bridge the gap in my synapse between my warriors and genestealers. Not to mention throwing down some mobile artillery anywhere on the board is going to be a headache for anyone in my opinion.


As for my first game, I did lose pretty hard by the 4th turn, but it was a great game. We used the Open War Deck (loved it) and the mission was The Comet with the twist being Acid Rain. (this is optimal situation for the Tyranids as far as I'm concerned. -1 to being shot at is awesome with Lictors and Venomthropes.) Geezuz that St. Celestine unit is beyond stupid good! Especially with those free Faith Rolls or whatever they were...

I want Sporocysts to be good, but I'm not sold on them. 5 Barbed Stranglers is really nice fire power, but their Spore Node is so short-range. If they could just spawn Mines, that'd be much better. They need something else to make them worth it - not sure what it is, and they are just too expensive for what you get.

From the bew faq today:

Page 242 – Understrength UnitsChange the second paragraph to read:

‘If you are using Power Ratings, you must still pay
the Power Rating cost as if you had a minimum-sized
unit, even though it contains fewer models. If you are
using points, you only pay the points for the models
you actually have in an understrength unit (and any
wargear they are equipped with).

An understrength unit still takes up the appropriate slot in a Detachment. If you are playing a matched play game, you can only include an understrength unit in an Auxiliary
Support Detachment.’

So if you want a lone venonthrope/zoanthrope that is -1 command point. Not sure if it is worth it.

 Niiai wrote:
From the bew faq today:

Page 242 – Understrength UnitsChange the second paragraph to read:

‘If you are using Power Ratings, you must still pay
the Power Rating cost as if you had a minimum-sized
unit, even though it contains fewer models. If you are
using points, you only pay the points for the models
you actually have in an understrength unit (and any
wargear they are equipped with).

An understrength unit still takes up the appropriate slot in a Detachment. If you are playing a matched play game, you can only include an understrength unit in an Auxiliary
Support Detachment.’

So if you want a lone venonthrope/zoanthrope that is -1 command point. Not sure if it is worth it.

It might not be worth it. But I only have 2 Venomthropes. So I have to do it, if I want to use them at all.

 rollawaythestone wrote:
I want Sporocysts to be good, but I'm not sold on them. 5 Barbed Stranglers is really nice fire power, but their Spore Node is so short-range. If they could just spawn Mines, that'd be much better. They need something else to make them worth it - not sure what it is, and they are just too expensive for what you get.

If the where capable of 'spawning' spore mines and/or mucolids, then the could have been nice. Let them deploy d3 spore mines within 9 inch or field 2xd3 spore mines and lose a wound.

Bring only Biovores and malenthropes, with perhaps a bubblewrap of gants. If you're playing anything with non-hover tanks you autowin by restricting their movement to the point of immobility, especially since you can move 0.001" to get -1 to hit on the biovores to spawn more mines.

Too many deployments, the enemy will start first and select a diagonal deployment. He can then position his models in a way that the 60" line that you can draw is insufficient to hold him back.

And anything with fly would always pass.

The more I've thought about it the more I'm convinced the Swarmlord is rubbish unless you are running something like a Dimachron. It would make a heck of a lot more sense if advancing catapulted characters forward as well.

And for 300 points I think he is pretty much awful. I hope they improve him in the forthcoming Tyranid book.

I'm going to purchase that Malanthrope and run that plus a broodlord. I haven't had any more games since last time but I was sitting painting thinking about it. You can do a heck of a lot with a spare 210 points. 6 Biovores for a start.

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Tyranids) ++

+ HQ +

Hive Tyrant: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Rending Claws, Power: Catalyst, Power: The Horror, Prehensile Pincer Tail, Two Deathspitters with Slimer Maggots, Wings

Hive Tyrant: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Rending Claws, Power: Onslaught, Power: The Horror, Prehensile Pincer Tail, Two Deathspitters with Slimer Maggots, Wings

Hive Tyrant: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Rending Claws, Power: Catalyst, Power: Onslaught, Prehensile Pincer Tail, Two Deathspitters with Slimer Maggots, Wings

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Tyranids) ++

+ HQ +

Malanthropes: Malanthrope

The Swarmlord: Power: Catalyst, Power: The Horror

+ Troops +

Genestealers
. 20x Genestealer: 20x Rending Claws, 20x Scything Talons

Hormagaunts: 30x Hormagaunt

Termagants
. 10x Termagant (Devourer): 10x Devourer
. 15x Termagant (Fleshborer)

+ Fast Attack +

Hive Crone: Drool Cannon, Scything Wings, Stinger Salvo, Tentaclids

+ Heavy Support +

Trygon: Bio-electric Pulse, 3x Massive Scything Talons, Toxinspike

+ Dedicated Transport +

Tyrannocyte: 5x Barbed Strangler

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Tyranids) ++

+ HQ +

Hive Tyrant: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Rending Claws, Power: Catalyst, Power: The Horror, Prehensile Pincer Tail, Two Deathspitters with Slimer Maggots, Wings

Hive Tyrant: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Rending Claws, Power: Onslaught, Power: The Horror, Prehensile Pincer Tail, Two Deathspitters with Slimer Maggots, Wings

Hive Tyrant: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Rending Claws, Power: Catalyst, Power: Onslaught, Prehensile Pincer Tail, Two Deathspitters with Slimer Maggots, Wings

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Tyranids) ++

+ HQ +

Malanthropes: Malanthrope

The Swarmlord: Power: Catalyst, Power: The Horror

+ Troops +

Genestealers
. 18x Genestealer: 18x Rending Claws, 18x Scything Talons

Hormagaunts: 30x Hormagaunt

Termagants: 20x Termagant (Fleshborer)

+ Heavy Support +

Exocrine: Bio-plasmic Cannon, Powerful Limbs

Trygon: Bio-electric Pulse, 3x Massive Scything Talons, Toxinspike

+ Dedicated Transport +

Tyrannocyte: 5x Barbed Strangler

which one better? exocrine or hive crone? I could consider to use a broodlord to replace malanthrope

What loadout would you guys suggest for a Hive Tyrant? Wings or walking, deathspitter och barbed strangler? Give me your ideas☺

wings 2 deathspitters and 2 rending claws

there are no deathspitters in the kit, where can I get them?

In the carnifex kit. :-)

thanks, although they are not available at stores now. A source told me GW are repacking a lot of kits for 8th, and thats why a lot of them aren't available now

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
The more I've thought about it the more I'm convinced the Swarmlord is rubbish unless you are running something like a Dimachron. It would make a heck of a lot more sense if advancing catapulted characters forward as well.

And for 300 points I think he is pretty much awful. I hope they improve him in the forthcoming Tyranid book.

Is Swarmie really that awful? Can't catapulty himself?

I thought as a Str8 beatstick he is pretty aweful and helps fill-out those higher-end damage thresholds.

I'm not actually convinced about a Dima tho, I'm thinking another Trygon & additional Stealers could do the same job, better

I'm torn on swarmie. On the one hand, he absolutely wrecks everything he touches. On the other hand, 300 points and he is surprisingly squishy, especially with the fire he draws. I'm finding myself take Old One Eye and a broodlord instead of him for only 2 points more, netting me buffs for two of my armies mainstays and two great melee characters

C4790M wrote:
I'm torn on swarmie. On the one hand, he absolutely wrecks everything he touches. On the other hand, 300 points and he is surprisingly squishy, especially with the fire he draws. I'm finding myself take Old One Eye and a broodlord instead of him for only 2 points more, netting me buffs for two of my armies mainstays and two great melee characters

Can the Swarmlord self buff, with Hive Commander?

Yes, it was specified by GW during the tyranid faction focus.

If you look at profiles to try to figure out why a certain character is a certain price, Swarmlord must be paying about 100 points for the hive commander ability.

Girlyman is 345 or so? He is heads and tails better than swarmlord. Might even beat him in a one on one match.

Unfortunately the Walking Hive Tyrant is still much worse than the Flyrant.
The latter is only some 30 pts more expensiive, is faster, can move over units and has no drawbacks. They could have said that just the Walkrant profits from the Tyrant Guard ability or given him a 2+ Save.

The way it is now, there is still no reason to take the Walkrant. Unless maybe you want to have a really cheap one or you just want to stay in the back an shoot.

I think the Swarmlord is amazing. Don't know why so many people consider him bad now. He is of course expensive, but you have to make sure that his Hive Commander ability is usefull, if you want to use him. The ability is clearly a game changer and a lot of people are very afraid of it.

 Astmeister wrote:
Unfortunately the Walking Hive Tyrant is still much worse than the Flyrant.
The latter is only some 30 pts more expensiive, is faster, can move over units and has no drawbacks. They could have said that just the Walkrant profits from the Tyrant Guard ability or given him a 2+ Save.

The way it is now, there is still no reason to take the Walkrant. Unless maybe you want to have a really cheap one or you just want to stay in the back an shoot.

I think the Swarmlord is amazing. Don't know why so many people consider him bad now. He is of course expensive, but you have to make sure that his Hive Commander ability is usefull, if you want to use him. The ability is clearly a game changer and a lot of people are very afraid of it.

Honestly i prefer the walkrants. I use a single tyrant in my list, and he is always the first target, due to the high cost/wound rate (18.4), and the fact that he is not affected by venomthropes (no forgeworld here). Wings would only increase the cost/wound rate, making him an even better target. He is a good chap without wings, with 2 powers and some shooting with reasonable durability.

Spoletta wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:
Unfortunately the Walking Hive Tyrant is still much worse than the Flyrant.
The latter is only some 30 pts more expensiive, is faster, can move over units and has no drawbacks. They could have said that just the Walkrant profits from the Tyrant Guard ability or given him a 2+ Save.

The way it is now, there is still no reason to take the Walkrant. Unless maybe you want to have a really cheap one or you just want to stay in the back an shoot.

I think the Swarmlord is amazing. Don't know why so many people consider him bad now. He is of course expensive, but you have to make sure that his Hive Commander ability is usefull, if you want to use him. The ability is clearly a game changer and a lot of people are very afraid of it.

Honestly i prefer the walkrants. I use a single tyrant in my list, and he is always the first target, due to the high cost/wound rate (18.4), and the fact that he is not affected by venomthropes (no forgeworld here). Wings would only increase the cost/wound rate, making him an even better target. He is a good chap without wings, with 2 powers and some shooting with reasonable durability.

You are my hero!
I also play a Walkrant with HVC + Scything Talons since 6th edition now.

What loadout do you have for him and do you advance and go into melee with it or does it stay in the backfield?