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 blackmage wrote:
just a question....if this kind of list is so strong, why no one made a win/top3 in latest major tournaments, like Boise cup gt or westcoast gt, just cause players still haven't all the models?

The Frontline guys have been strongly hinting that Razorwing spam and similar "isn't a good investment", similar to what they were saying before Scion command squad spam got removed. Since they were involved in playtesting I think people are (rightly) holding off on buying scores or even hundreds of models that are perhaps unlikely to continue with their current rules for long.

as spam goes, razorwing and brimstone spam is pretty awful to play against since it is just a mass of not particularly interesting models that takes an hour to move around and position just right

Hey Jy2 have you thought about bringing out the nids for another run in 8th?

I understand you are experimenting with a lot of popular potential tournament lists that are designed to be as competitive as possible, however I wonder if you have looked into some of the options that tyranids have to be competitive.

Allied with GSC, you could run a vanguard detachment with 2 patriarchs and 60 stealers.

Then another detachment with nids with say swarmlord, exocrine, gaunt spam etc. See Incontrols video here on it https://youtu.be/if_hW29BGvQ

I actually have a couple of problems with Goeffs list. Mainly the warriors, they dont seem to me at least to be particularly effective. I suppose time will tell.

Anyway just wanted to hear your thoughts on nids and thanks for the always awesome battle report

Olenos wrote:
Hey Jy2 have you thought about bringing out the nids for another run in 8th?

I understand you are experimenting with a lot of popular potential tournament lists that are designed to be as competitive as possible, however I wonder if you have looked into some of the options that tyranids have to be competitive.

Allied with GSC, you could run a vanguard detachment with 2 patriarchs and 60 stealers.

Then another detachment with nids with say swarmlord, exocrine, gaunt spam etc. See Incontrols video here on it https://youtu.be/if_hW29BGvQ

I actually have a couple of problems with Goeffs list. Mainly the warriors, they dont seem to me at least to be particularly effective. I suppose time will tell.

Anyway just wanted to hear your thoughts on nids and thanks for the always awesome battle report

I haven't explored into competitive Tyranids yet, but I will. As a matter of fact, I plan to run Tyranids in a battle this coming Tues, though it probably won't be a highly optimized list yet. Once I get my feet wet with them, you can be sure I will come up with a strong bug build.

I'll check out iNcontrol's video when I get the chance. Thanks.

 Hückleberry wrote:

 kestral wrote:
Le Sigh. Good to see 8th is really making 40K fun again. I don't have much desire to play any army I own or want to collect/paint against a million horrors or a bunch of planes for that matter. No tournaments this edition it seems - maybe next!

Thanks for the report though! The G-squig seems neat.

....although, I DO have two storm ravens....

Luckily I don't think this and the razorwing list will last much longer. GW will probably FAQ them into garbage after they sell enough of the models.

I've got no problems with that. Curb the extremes and the game becomes a little more balanced.

Though who knows what the codices will bring.

 whembly wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

How much chaff can the army really afford with 6 stormravens in the list? Perhaps 1 Stormraven may survive 1 turn longer? Maybe they even take out another blob of 30-brimstones and even a character. IMO that still may not be enough. You know why? Ok, best-case scenario, somehow you manage to kill all the Brimstones. I then put a character out there. Now your Raven has to waste the entirety of its firepower on that 1 character before it can target another character. If you had 2 Ravens left by the time you kill all the Brimstones and I had 12 characters (Heralds + Flamers), you can only kill 2 characters a turn whereas I can still Smite down 1 raven a turn. In 2 turns you'd kill 3 characters and in return, the Tzeentchlings will have downed both of those ravens.

I just don't think this matchup favors the Stormravens. No matter how you put it, it'll be an uphill battle for them unless the Stormraven general was a much more skilled player than the Tzeentch general (or barring extreme luck).

It's not just a bad matchup for spammed Stormravens... I think this Tzeentch army is a bad matchup for just about any extreme low number of unit army trying to get first turn simply because you can easily force your opponent to "waste the entirety of it's firepower on that 1 character before it can target another character."

Yeah, elite armies - armies with low-model counts - will have problems with a Tzeentch Brimstone list. On the contrary, the Brimstone list will have problems against armies with high-model counts (and that can generate a lot of dice also).




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 blackmage wrote:
just a question....if this kind of list is so strong, why no one made a win/top3 in latest major tournaments, like Boise cup gt or westcoast gt, just cause players still haven't all the models?

Lack of models may be the main deterrent.

The edition is still so new. Maybe people just haven't gotten this far just yet.

But mainly, I suspect the high-model count as the main issue.

 whembly wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
just a question....if this kind of list is so strong, why no one made a win/top3 in latest major tournaments, like Boise cup gt or westcoast gt, just cause players still haven't all the models?

Pretty much... I don't think most of us has THAT many brimmies.

Frankly I think there's some apprehension in buying all those brimmies before the TzCodex is released.

Agreed, though I don't know anything about the Tzeentch codex that will eventually come out....whenever.

 flaming tadpole wrote:
Ya all the ork flyers are pretty bad. Even in their most ideal match-up, which was this game, they still underperformed - nice paint job on them though

I would be very interested to see this army go up against a proper ork list. Horde pretty much negates smite spam and then it would just end up being an all out duke in combat. That would be a sight to see 100+ orks colliding with 200+ horrors. *heavy breathing*

One of these days, I hope to play against an Ork horde list as well, with or without my Brimming With Horror list. It'll be a fun matchup.

 luke1705 wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
just a question....if this kind of list is so strong, why no one made a win/top3 in latest major tournaments, like Boise cup gt or westcoast gt, just cause players still haven't all the models?

Pretty much... I don't think most of us has THAT many brimmies.

Frankly I think there's some apprehension in buying all those brimmies before the TzCodex is released.

A brims list will most likely win a GT in the near future (or certainly place highly). Keep an eye on the BAO

I'm interested in the results as well. Too bad I can't make it to the BAO this year though.

It'll be interesting to see what the top Daemon players run and how they do with them.

 Kingsley wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
just a question....if this kind of list is so strong, why no one made a win/top3 in latest major tournaments, like Boise cup gt or westcoast gt, just cause players still haven't all the models?

The Frontline guys have been strongly hinting that Razorwing spam and similar "isn't a good investment", similar to what they were saying before Scion command squad spam got removed. Since they were involved in playtesting I think people are (rightly) holding off on buying scores or even hundreds of models that are perhaps unlikely to continue with their current rules for long.

I remember when FLG had the vote to nerf Scatter Lasers on Windrider jetbikes. The public voted against it even though most felt it was OP. That's the funny thing about people. They tend to keep to RAW no matter how stupid it is sometimes.

If it was an intepretation issue, I can see people taking the less powerful intepretation. But the straight-up alteration to nerf a specific unit, there's probably going to be a lot of resistance. Of course this is assuming FLG even allows the public to vote.

 jy2 wrote:

I remember when FLG had the vote to nerf Scatter Lasers on Windrider jetbikes. The public voted against it even though most felt it was OP. That's the funny thing about people. They tend to keep to RAW no matter how stupid it is sometimes.

If it was an intepretation issue, I can see people taking the less powerful intepretation. But the straight-up alteration to nerf a specific unit, there's probably going to be a lot of resistance. Of course this is assuming FLG even allows the public to vote.

I think the hint is more towards GW FAQing to tone this style of army down. I can see them either increasing the points cost of brimstones or reducing their ability to spam smite (maybe adding a rule to them to say that if they use smite it only does 1MW instead of D3) but we will see.

I can't wait to see your take on Tyranids. They seem competitive again now.

Fezza213 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

I remember when FLG had the vote to nerf Scatter Lasers on Windrider jetbikes. The public voted against it even though most felt it was OP. That's the funny thing about people. They tend to keep to RAW no matter how stupid it is sometimes.

If it was an intepretation issue, I can see people taking the less powerful intepretation. But the straight-up alteration to nerf a specific unit, there's probably going to be a lot of resistance. Of course this is assuming FLG even allows the public to vote.

I think the hint is more towards GW FAQing to tone this style of army down. I can see them either increasing the points cost of brimstones or reducing their ability to spam smite (maybe adding a rule to them to say that if they use smite it only does 1MW instead of D3) but we will see.

I've got no problem with that. Brimstones can do with a price increase (probably to 3-pts) and making Smite do 1mw with them (like the Grey Knights) is reasonable.

 Primark G wrote:
I can't wait to see your take on Tyranids. They seem competitive again now.

Just played it yesterday and it was a good game.

I brought a more balanced, TAC Tyranid list against a Sisters mechanized army with the (translation - my) Shadowsword.

Report should be coming out later this week.

I can't wait to read it and see how you dealt with the super heavy.

 Primark G wrote:
I can't wait to read it and see how you dealt with the super heavy.

Just a little preview here.....

 jy2 wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
I can't wait to read it and see how you dealt with the super heavy.

Just a little preview here.....

Spoiler:

It survived.

But did you?

Can't wait to see that report

 luke1705 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
I can't wait to read it and see how you dealt with the super heavy.

Just a little preview here.....

Spoiler:

It survived.

But did you?

Can't wait to see that report

Let's just say that I don't have the offense to take out the heart right away. I need to remove all the other organs and tissues around it first if my opponent plays it properly.....

....of course by that time, I might not have enough offense to deal with it anyways.

Btw, flamers are deadly to charging bugs. Overwatch probably did as much damage to my bugs as his regular shooting (not counting Shadowsword shooting)....and he was running Immolator-flamer-spam and lots of nuns with flaming guns!

In any case, a very interesting and fun battle.

People who take super heavies for 1500 point games... yeah.

:(

We normally play at 2K here.

A bit OT but what's your take on the new SM codex?

I haven't seen the new codex, nor have I really listened to the rumours. The only thing I have heard are the Chapter Tactics. I think they give the Chapters the flavor that they needed. Of all the Chapter Tactics, I think Ultramarines and White Scars are the clear winners, though I think the other Chapter Tactics can be useful as well.

With regards to the new units, I am not familiar with them so don't have an opinion at this time.