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I love Warhammer TV but I was really disappointed when I saw their army there this weekend.

https://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/40k-Doubles-July-pack-V4.pdf

The event pack describes the event as:

"Here at Warhammer World we expect everyone to use fully painted and assembled models and to treat everyone they
encounter with civility and respect. This is just as true during your games - especially at a Doubles Weekend where the objective
is not to smash your opponent’s to a pulp every game but instead to enjoy a great game and spend time with quality, like minded
people."

Warhammer Community teams list:

Magnus
2 Nurgle Renegade Knights
The Changeling
Exalted Sorcerer
1 unit of Tzangors
3 units of Brimstone Horrors (with one Pink Horror or a couple of Blues in each unit)


They smashed everyone they played and came top on victory points. At these events your victory points are multiplied by your Favourite Game Votes so they actually scored 0 in the end.

These guys should epitomise the spirit of the event and they could not have got it more wrong. What a shame that they have their selection of the entire range and that was what they chose.


EDIT: That said it was an awesome event like they always are at Warhammer World.

I don't see what the big deal is.

Fun is described differently by different people; they took a list that seems thematicallyish solid - a ton of big models and some chaff.

I doubt that's the strongest army they could of made, or that anyone could have come up with.

Plus, this event wasn't about building an army from the weakest units in the index - even if it was, that's subjective. Plus people don't have endless amounts 0f every model.

Chill the fetch out. Someone is going to win every game, it's the nature of gaming - strong list or not. And "favorite game v0tes"? What are those? Irrelevant most likely, people who lost, especially against an army they didn't like playing against - which they didn't like, simply because they lost; salty people don't say gg or vote "good game", that's just gaming, and people can be emotional creatures.

Welcome to 8th edition, spamming units, especially strong single models and cheap-o chaff, is the new edition. Detachments further emphasize this people will always take the strongest/most efficient stuff they can; that's not new or unsportsmanlike, that's just playing the game.

If you're not, you're depriving the opponent of a fair battle, so you can justify your loss. This game has never been perfectly balanced make a play group of people who focus on fun and weak lists, or quit the gameplay portion of the hobby. Third option is to get a job at GW, work your way up the ranks, and rebalance the game entire.

But instead, you chose to whine, because you don't like the oppoenents list.

This is why "casual tournaments" without a guy lookin at every list and putting aside the most obvious ones is just useless.

Well, they fielded a nurgle unit with magnus.
Tzeentch and Nurgle hates each other's guts. That's not a very fluffy list, and you'd think GW's staff would know that.

Rules wise it doesn't matter though, because Renegade Knights can't take marks.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Well, they fielded a nurgle unit with magnus.
Tzeentch and Nurgle hates each other's guts. That's not a very fluffy list, and you'd think GW's staff would know that.

Rules wise it doesn't matter though, because Renegade Knights can't take marks.

The changer of ways deceived the nurgle units, or manipulated them into being in position for that fight.

Or, they're chaos units doing chaos things.

Boom, fluffy.

But since they can't take marks, it doesn't matter.

fe40k wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Well, they fielded a nurgle unit with magnus.
Tzeentch and Nurgle hates each other's guts. That's not a very fluffy list, and you'd think GW's staff would know that.

Rules wise it doesn't matter though, because Renegade Knights can't take marks.

The changer of ways deceived the nurgle units, or manipulated them into being in position for that fight.

Or, they're chaos units doing chaos things.

Boom, fluffy.

But since they can't take marks, it doesn't matter.

Since they can't take marks what was the reason for making them Nurgle? Why not just keep the Tzeentch theme?

EDIT: Looking at the points, it was probably one guy taking the two Nurgle Knights and the other taking a Tzeentchy army. Really the double Knight guy is the one not playing too sporting.

 mrhappyface wrote:

fe40k wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Well, they fielded a nurgle unit with magnus.
Tzeentch and Nurgle hates each other's guts. That's not a very fluffy list, and you'd think GW's staff would know that.

Rules wise it doesn't matter though, because Renegade Knights can't take marks.

The changer of ways deceived the nurgle units, or manipulated them into being in position for that fight.

Or, they're chaos units doing chaos things.

Boom, fluffy.

But since they can't take marks, it doesn't matter.

Since they can't take marks what was the reason for making them Nurgle? Why not just keep the Tzeentch theme?

Yeah, I thought that was weird as well. Maybe they didn't have a tzeentch knight, but its GW right, so you'd think they could just, like, paint one up.

 mrhappyface wrote:

fe40k wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Well, they fielded a nurgle unit with magnus.
Tzeentch and Nurgle hates each other's guts. That's not a very fluffy list, and you'd think GW's staff would know that.

Rules wise it doesn't matter though, because Renegade Knights can't take marks.

The changer of ways deceived the nurgle units, or manipulated them into being in position for that fight.

Or, they're chaos units doing chaos things.

Boom, fluffy.

But since they can't take marks, it doesn't matter.

Since they can't take marks what was the reason for making them Nurgle? Why not just keep the Tzeentch theme?

EDIT: Looking at the points, it was probably one guy taking the two Nurgle Knights and the other taking a Tzeentchy army. Really the double Knight guy is the one not playing too sporting.

Maybe they'd already been previously painted? It was a doubles tournament too, right? Maybe one of them just loves Nurgle.

I don't actually see the issue? I mean, I know people still hate playing against knights, but they aren't literally immune to small arms fire and destroyer weapons aren't a thing anymore.

As for the other list, it's a fluffy tzneetch list, that doesn't look particularly broken. I mean, the demon bit is a little cheesy, but not that bad by any stretch.

SilverAlien wrote:
I don't actually see the issue? I mean, I know people still hate playing against knights, but they aren't literally immune to small arms fire and destroyer weapons aren't a thing anymore.

As for the other list, it's a fluffy tzneetch list, that doesn't look particularly broken. I mean, the demon bit is a little cheesy, but not that bad by any stretch.

No, its not fluffy. Look up the relationship between the chaos gods, and you'll see the problem.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
I don't actually see the issue? I mean, I know people still hate playing against knights, but they aren't literally immune to small arms fire and destroyer weapons aren't a thing anymore.

As for the other list, it's a fluffy tzneetch list, that doesn't look particularly broken. I mean, the demon bit is a little cheesy, but not that bad by any stretch.

No, its not fluffy. Look up the relationship between the chaos gods, and you'll see the problem.

Because Nurgle and Tzeentch forces don't fight together in Abaddon's Crusade, right?

I'm sure the followers of the Chaos gods don't try to off each other with every breath

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
I don't actually see the issue? I mean, I know people still hate playing against knights, but they aren't literally immune to small arms fire and destroyer weapons aren't a thing anymore.

As for the other list, it's a fluffy tzneetch list, that doesn't look particularly broken. I mean, the demon bit is a little cheesy, but not that bad by any stretch.

No, its not fluffy. Look up the relationship between the chaos gods, and you'll see the problem.

I have both a Thousand Sons and Death Guard force.

In larger games my unifying factor is.... Fabius Bile.

I tend to play it off as the Thousand Sons acting as hired protection for Bile, much to the displeasure of the Death Guard who initially employed him.

A Keeper of Secrets and its army of daemonettes teamed up with Kha'banda and his army of bloodletters while attempting to corrupt Sanguinus on Sigmus Prime.

Audustum wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
I don't actually see the issue? I mean, I know people still hate playing against knights, but they aren't literally immune to small arms fire and destroyer weapons aren't a thing anymore.

As for the other list, it's a fluffy tzneetch list, that doesn't look particularly broken. I mean, the demon bit is a little cheesy, but not that bad by any stretch.

No, its not fluffy. Look up the relationship between the chaos gods, and you'll see the problem.

Because Nurgle and Tzeentch forces don't fight together in Abaddon's Crusade, right?

Not the same. The reason why that's notable is because they normally hate each other. You'd have to be a very special individual to get them to work together, which is why Abby is such a big deal.
Read the demon codex, and every other bit of lore concerning the chaos gods. Khorne hates Slaanesh, Tzeentch hates Nurgle, and its only in extremely rare and important occasions that they work together. Like the Black Crusades.

Yeah, Chaos Gods hate each other but they are totally capable of working together, normally under the banner of a powerfull Chaos Lord.
Is totally fluffy to have cultists of X god working with Cultits of X opposite god. Probably they'll murder each other outside battle, touhgth.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
its only in extremely rare and important occasions that they work together.

Are you sure?

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
its only in extremely rare and important occasions that they work together.

Are you sure?

Are bands of greater demons from all 4 gods working together a common occurence, because if not, then its a rarity.
Its also a minor, throw away event in the tyranid codex that's just there to show how awesome the nids are. Hardly a solid example of how the chaos works.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
its only in extremely rare and important occasions that they work together.

Are you sure?

Are bands of greater demons from all 4 gods working together a common occurence, because if not, then its a rarity.

Whether it's common or rare is irrelevant. There is a precedent, therefore it doesn't contradict the fluff.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
its only in extremely rare and important occasions that they work together.

Are you sure?

Are bands of greater demons from all 4 gods working together a common occurence, because if not, then its a rarity.

Whether it's common or rare is irrelevant. There is a precedent, therefore it doesn't contradict the fluff.

The fluff also has back flipping terminators, a demon primarch getting heart tatoos and Calgar punching out an Avatar of Khaine. I'd rather go by frequency and duration when establishing a precedence, not single, throw away events that are just forcibly inserted into the book because "eet wood be da koolest 'ting eva!"

Yeah, they are kinda gak for taking that list. Especially since they are supposed to embody the "fluffy" "fun" game style.

Hahaha, nice doubles NOT.

Sounds like most "casual" players, honestly; always insisting that they play the game for "fluff" or for "fun", talking about the "spirit of the game" and doing ludicrous gak like injecting morality into the game (you can't take certain lists or certain armies or it makes you a bad person), and then going on to crush people with their own hard lists in an event where most people won't be taking or expecting that kinda thing, defending their list as "thematic" and doing everything possible to justify it, even if it flies in the face of the fluff they claim to love. "Oh, well, Abaddon!" is apparently enough justification to throw decades worth of fluff in the trash and have the Chaos Gods constantly mingling together, completely forgetting that they're mortal enemies who will often ignore their opponents to turn on each other during battle if they're both present on the same battlefield...

I don't see anything "fluffy" or "thematic" about this list, it's literally a Tzeentch army, lead by Magnus, with a couple of Nurgle Knights just thrown in there. The Nurgle Knights ruin their "theme". Why can't they be Tzeentch Knights? Why are the Knights literally the only thing in the army with the mark of Nurgle? It's too fething obvious that there's a rules benefit for making them Nurgle over Tzeentch and that's why they did it. "Oh, well, maybe they didn't have Tzeentch Knights painted!" So...they work for Games Workshop but don't have time to paint their models, while stressing that everyone else should have their stuff properly painted and assembled? And if that's the case and they're using the Nurgle Knights essentially as proxies then why can't they give them the mark of Tzeentch so that at least rules-wise everything will match? No, I don't buy that idea that they're just using whatever models they had on hand and the Nurgle Knights are subbing in for something else.

Normally I don't really give a gak, you can play with whatever you want to so long as I get to do the same and there's no fething whining about what either side brought. But it looks to me like they went "Gotcha!", encouraging people to bring a certain style of list and a certain attitude to their event, and then played cutthroat against those people and utterly smashed everyone at the event because they weren't expecting it, which is exactly what they said the event wasn't about, and that's kinda what irks me about it. It's even worse when these people are representing Games Workshop and pull that crap. Looks like seal-clubbing to me.

Well, actually there's no rules benefit to nurgle knights, as renegade knights can't take a mark of chaos.
So what I think is that they probably just wanted to have knights, but couldn't be arsed to paint up a tzeentch knight and just took what was available, even if it clashes with the theme and the fluff.

I don't have the relevant index, I only bought the ones for what I play so I didn't know that. I just assumed there was a benefit because there used to be. Nurgle marks used to make things tougher and Tzeentch marks were mostly worthless, if I'm not mistaken.

Even so, bringing a pair of Knights and a big, powerful, monster character like Magnus is still kinda rough, and I imagine it's not what most people were expecting to see.

 Sidstyler wrote:
I don't have the relevant index, I only bought the ones for what I play so I didn't know that. I just assumed there was a benefit because there used to be. Nurgle marks used to make things tougher and Tzeentch marks were mostly worthless, if I'm not mistaken.

Even so, bringing a pair of Knights and a big, powerful, monster character like Magnus is still kinda rough, and I imagine it's not what most people were expecting to see.

So you were making assumptions about the player when you don't even know the core rules for the army?

Again.... why is two knights and magnus an issue? The rules for this edition were in part supposed to alleviate this problem. A knight isn't notably tougher than a couple leman russ tanks. Magnus can't throw out the psychic dakka like he used to.

Are these models really good for their points? No one really mentioned it, I don't understand what part is the issue.

SilverAlien wrote:
Again.... why is two knights and magnus an issue? The rules for this edition were in part supposed to alleviate this problem. A knight isn't notably tougher than a couple leman russ tanks. Magnus can't throw out the psychic dakka like he used to.

Are these models really good for their points? No one really mentioned it, I don't understand what part is the issue.

I think people just weren't ready to deal with it. They probably took a ton of assault cannons.

Assuming they were fun opponents, the thread here is that they are bad people for taking a wacky list that won games? that attitude doesn't seem very casual, although I find it's all too common among those who identify as such. If it's that serious you should have comp. the expectations here are far too nebulous to be suitable for any kind of organized play.

I keep seeing people talk about the list not being "fluffy", but why does it matter? The rules say "Your two forces are selected totally separately of each other." So does it matter that the Chaos Gods won't get along (in how it relates to this one tourney)?

I am a new player so maybe I am missing something.