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Played my first game last night and both my opponent and I really enjoyed it. I think at least 3 other people @ my flgs are picking it up so hopefully we can get a pool of pilots to play.

There was a decent amount of interest from the X-Wing crowd so maybe there'll be a couple of converts joining as well.

Definitely looking forward to see what/when they release(hopefully not necromunda style) more aircraft and other areas of engagement/"terrain" as well.

 Breotan wrote:
Remember those pilot cards GW was offering if you purchased one of their bundles? Are those just alternate cards of the ones that come in those Aircraft and Aces boxes? Or are they different?

The cards in the Aicraft and Aces boxes contain.... aircraft and aces, the same ones that are in the Rynn's World book (as in, there's nothing on the cards that isn't also in Rynn's World).

The cards that came with the bundles were crew upgrade cards, you can download them off the Warhammer Community downloads page and as far as I'm aware the rules on those cards don't exist anywhere else other than on these cards.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/downloads/

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
Remember those pilot cards GW was offering if you purchased one of their bundles? Are those just alternate cards of the ones that come in those Aircraft and Aces boxes? Or are they different?

The cards in the Aicraft and Aces boxes contain.... aircraft and aces, the same ones that are in the Rynn's World book (as in, there's nothing on the cards that isn't also in Rynn's World).

The cards that came with the bundles were crew upgrade cards, you can download them off the Warhammer Community downloads page and as far as I'm aware the rules on those cards don't exist anywhere else other than on these cards.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/downloads/

i have the A&A box for orks, the 3 ork cards on the download page is just named differently from what is in the A&A box.
lightning reaction is flyboss, ace gunna is da black barun and strategic bommer is toofkraker.

expecting the same thing for the imp deck.

 FrozenDwarf wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
Remember those pilot cards GW was offering if you purchased one of their bundles? Are those just alternate cards of the ones that come in those Aircraft and Aces boxes? Or are they different?

The cards in the Aicraft and Aces boxes contain.... aircraft and aces, the same ones that are in the Rynn's World book (as in, there's nothing on the cards that isn't also in Rynn's World).

The cards that came with the bundles were crew upgrade cards, you can download them off the Warhammer Community downloads page and as far as I'm aware the rules on those cards don't exist anywhere else other than on these cards.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/downloads/

i have the A&A box for orks, the 3 ork cards on the download page is just named differently from what is in the A&A box.
lightning reaction is flyboss, ace gunna is da black barun and strategic bommer is toofkraker.

expecting the same thing for the imp deck.

Interesting. The Imperial ones don't match the Imperial aces, but maybe they do match some cards in the A&A box?

I didn't buy the cards because I've already burned so much money on AI didn't feel like burning more on cards (seriously, I don't think I've ever paid more for what amounts to 18 models that aren't terribly large and the rules to use them ).

I had assumed the A&A cards only had stuff from the rulebooks because the only ones I'd seen matched rules in the Rynn's World, was that a wrong assumption?

AllSeeingSkink wrote:


I didn't buy the cards because I've already burned so much money on AI didn't feel like burning more on cards (seriously, I don't think I've ever paid more for what amounts to 18 models that aren't terribly large and the rules to use them ).

I had assumed the A&A cards only had stuff from the rulebooks because the only ones I'd seen matched rules in the Rynn's World, was that a wrong assumption?

compared to AT, Tanks and Wings of Glory, this skirmish game feels cheap

im expecting the card boxes to have everything included for this "wave". as soon as an expansion that includes new plane additions to an exisisting army is released, i expect the old deck box will be outdated.
i too normaly dont care mutch for cards, but it is faster too look at a card then flip true pages in a book.

I don't think wings of glory is that costly, if anything that game is cheaper than X wing in the long run cause it's more casual and less card/deck building focused (not to mention 2 planes per played is a fine game). AI however is expensive but not to the extend of AT. I built a marauder bomber today and it's gorgeous, could never afford the resin one when I was younger but this is the next best thing. And unlike AT my local GW actually stocked this in store, but only doing so for a limited time like they did with necromunda/blood bowl.

The cards are useful to me for ease of play, I've never been a fan of having to flip through books during games.

I'm not looking forward to more card packs, it depends. 25-30 bucks for cards is a bit much for me. If they do little ten dollar small card packs for specific ships like the lightning then i'll be fine with it. But i'm hoping these expensive packs I just bought will stay valid for a good while.

Maybe it's worse in Australia, but AI has cost me $436AUD RRP to get 2 squadrons of 10 planes (so, largish but not excessive) and associated rules, that's without buying cards or the extra table or the ground assets which would cost $666. That sort of money buys you a console and several games, or gets you much of the way to a mid ranged gaming PC. Looking at the US GW site, it would be $255 USD for what I bought or $391 including cards and whatnot.

That's an expensive game in my book, given at the end of the day you don't have a huge amount of stuff, AT might be worse but that's not saying much Looking at prices for Wings of Glory stuff, that sort of money would buy a lot of things.

I’ll be more excited when the AT and AI rules cross over.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Maybe it's worse in Australia, but AI has cost me $436AUD RRP to get 2 squadrons of 10 planes (so, largish but not excessive) and associated rules, that's without buying cards or the extra table or the ground assets which would cost $666. That sort of money buys you a console and several games, or gets you much of the way to a mid ranged gaming PC. Looking at the US GW site, it would be $255 USD for what I bought or $391 including cards and whatnot.

That's an expensive game in my book, given at the end of the day you don't have a huge amount of stuff, AT might be worse but that's not saying much Looking at prices for Wings of Glory stuff, that sort of money would buy a lot of things.

that is more a "you" issue i think.

all you need to play a 100p game is 1 single box of fighters. to play all cenarios at around 150p means 1 of each box. so 150-200 AUD for one complete "army" depending if you are imp or ork player. (heck, 1 single AT warlord costs the same as 1ex of each box of imp planes........)
however if you alone has to supply "everything" in order to get some freinds to play, then yes it is gets expensive.

Fajita Fan wrote:I’ll be more excited when the AT and AI rules cross over.

We were talking about this while playing. I've been toying around with the idea of running an AI/AT game simultaneously. the only weirdness would be damage inflicted by bombing runs.

 Fajita Fan wrote:
I’ll be more excited when the AT and AI rules cross over.

I'm personally not, I prefer games focused on doing one thing and doing it well (air combat). Instead of a game trying to involve everything (like 40k) and being a mess. I collect both AT and AI and the thought of the two combined brings more of a headache than any kind of idea of fun.

So I picked up AI on release but haven't gotten around to playing any games, and I'm seeing in Rynn's World that it lists a large game using a 8'x4' Field of Engagement. Have any of you tried playing a larger game and think that that size is necessary, or could I get away with 6'x4'?

I'm trying to plan out buying a nice cloth/mousepad mat to play on but I'm not sure if I should get two 4'x4' or one 6'x4'.

I know the game is using 2" hexes but 8'x4' seems like quite a lot of space given that it's almost the size of a small Apocalypse table.

Jack Flask wrote:
So I picked up AI on release but haven't gotten around to playing any games, and I'm seeing in Rynn's World that it lists a large game using a 8'x4' Field of Engagement. Have any of you tried playing a larger game and think that that size is necessary, or could I get away with 6'x4'?

I'm trying to plan out buying a nice cloth/mousepad mat to play on but I'm not sure if I should get two 4'x4' or one 6'x4'.

I know the game is using 2" hexes but 8'x4' seems like quite a lot of space given that it's almost the size of a small Apocalypse table.

I haven't played any big games yet, but the 2.5x2.5 included in the starter set is about the right size for intro games, and the Rynn's World 3x3 board is good for a smallish game. I feel like a medium sized game would go well on a 4x4 or 6x4.

8 wide seems a bit overkill, but maybe could have some fun bomber escort missions. The slowest plane currently in the game (Eavy Bommer) has move 4, so would take all 12 turns to cover an 8 foot board, the next slowest is the Marauder which would take about 10 turns.

 FrozenDwarf wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Maybe it's worse in Australia, but AI has cost me $436AUD RRP to get 2 squadrons of 10 planes (so, largish but not excessive) and associated rules, that's without buying cards or the extra table or the ground assets which would cost $666. That sort of money buys you a console and several games, or gets you much of the way to a mid ranged gaming PC. Looking at the US GW site, it would be $255 USD for what I bought or $391 including cards and whatnot.

That's an expensive game in my book, given at the end of the day you don't have a huge amount of stuff, AT might be worse but that's not saying much Looking at prices for Wings of Glory stuff, that sort of money would buy a lot of things.

that is more a "you" issue i think.

all you need to play a 100p game is 1 single box of fighters. to play all cenarios at around 150p means 1 of each box. so 150-200 AUD for one complete "army" depending if you are imp or ork player. (heck, 1 single AT warlord costs the same as 1ex of each box of imp planes........)
however if you alone has to supply "everything" in order to get some freinds to play, then yes it is gets expensive.

I would say it's partly a "me" issue and partly how the game is designed. Yes, getting 2 squadrons** naturally makes it more expensive.

BUT, while you might only "need" 100pts of fighters to play a game, that's not really how the game is intended to be played.

2 of the 6 missions we have require ground defences, 2 require bombers, and 3 require a transport aircraft (which at the moment is just shoehorned in as a Marauder Destroyer, we don't have any "proper" transports yet like the Arvus, Valkyrie, Thunderhawk, Orca, etc).

The game is clearly designed that you'd have a selection of aircraft to choose from to suit the mission, not just 100pts of fighters (even if you maybe only intend to play 100pt games). I fully expect to buy a few more boxes just for the Orks and Imperials over the next few months to fill out proper bombers/transports for the Orks and proper transports for the Imperials.

Sure, you can "get in" to the game with just 1 squadron of fighters and play a few games, if you're going to play around more than just a few introductory dog fights the game is designed for players to have a healthy collection of options to play different scenarios.

The way GW set up this release is to nickle and dime players. You could just get away with buying the starter set.... but the starter set doesn't include the full rules or a full sized mat, so you're likely going to need to buy Rynn's World and the bigger mat anyway (which almost doubles your initial investment without getting any more planes). Then if you buy more planes you need more tokens. Then the cards aren't included in the boxed set. Then the way they gave you half boxes in the boxed set means you don't quite get enough fighters in the starter set, but if you buy another box of fighters you end up with more than you're likely going to want to use unless you're playing a huge game (playing a game with 9 dakkajets seems way excessive to me except in the biggest of games).

I'm obviously just ranting, I bought it all anyway but if GW had of priced it a bit better and made it feel less like nickle and diming, I'm sure I'd find it easier to get other players in to the game, at this stage if I ask a friend to get in to it unless they just buy a box of fighters like you suggested they're probably going to be in for $200AUD-ish (box of fighters, box of bombers and the rules). That's a tough sell to get a mate in to the game (partly why I ended up just going for 2 squadrons, lol).


**(one could argue at this stage the intention is people would buy 2 squadrons, given the ground defences box is a mixed kit)

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Jack Flask wrote:
So I picked up AI on release but haven't gotten around to playing any games, and I'm seeing in Rynn's World that it lists a large game using a 8'x4' Field of Engagement. Have any of you tried playing a larger game and think that that size is necessary, or could I get away with 6'x4'?

I'm trying to plan out buying a nice cloth/mousepad mat to play on but I'm not sure if I should get two 4'x4' or one 6'x4'.

I know the game is using 2" hexes but 8'x4' seems like quite a lot of space given that it's almost the size of a small Apocalypse table.

I haven't played any big games yet, but the 2.5x2.5 included in the starter set is about the right size for intro games, and the Rynn's World 3x3 board is good for a smallish game. I feel like a medium sized game would go well on a 4x4 or 6x4.

8 wide seems a bit overkill, but maybe could have some fun bomber escort missions. The slowest plane currently in the game (Eavy Bommer) has move 4, so would take all 12 turns to cover an 8 foot board, the next slowest is the Marauder which would take about 10 turns.

 FrozenDwarf wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Maybe it's worse in Australia, but AI has cost me $436AUD RRP to get 2 squadrons of 10 planes (so, largish but not excessive) and associated rules, that's without buying cards or the extra table or the ground assets which would cost $666. That sort of money buys you a console and several games, or gets you much of the way to a mid ranged gaming PC. Looking at the US GW site, it would be $255 USD for what I bought or $391 including cards and whatnot.

That's an expensive game in my book, given at the end of the day you don't have a huge amount of stuff, AT might be worse but that's not saying much Looking at prices for Wings of Glory stuff, that sort of money would buy a lot of things.

that is more a "you" issue i think.

all you need to play a 100p game is 1 single box of fighters. to play all cenarios at around 150p means 1 of each box. so 150-200 AUD for one complete "army" depending if you are imp or ork player. (heck, 1 single AT warlord costs the same as 1ex of each box of imp planes........)
however if you alone has to supply "everything" in order to get some freinds to play, then yes it is gets expensive.

I would say it's partly a "me" issue and partly how the game is designed. Yes, getting 2 squadrons** naturally makes it more expensive.

BUT, while you might only "need" 100pts of fighters to play a game, that's not really how the game is intended to be played.

2 of the 6 missions we have require ground defences, 2 require bombers, and 3 require a transport aircraft (which at the moment is just shoehorned in as a Marauder Destroyer, we don't have any "proper" transports yet like the Arvus, Valkyrie, Thunderhawk, Orca, etc).

The game is clearly designed that you'd have a selection of aircraft to choose from to suit the mission, not just 100pts of fighters (even if you maybe only intend to play 100pt games). I fully expect to buy a few more boxes just for the Orks and Imperials over the next few months to fill out proper bombers/transports for the Orks and proper transports for the Imperials.

Sure, you can "get in" to the game with just 1 squadron of fighters and play a few games, if you're going to play around more than just a few introductory dog fights the game is designed for players to have a healthy collection of options to play different scenarios.

The way GW set up this release is to nickle and dime players. You could just get away with buying the starter set.... but the starter set doesn't include the full rules or a full sized mat, so you're likely going to need to buy Rynn's World and the bigger mat anyway (which almost doubles your initial investment without getting any more planes). Then if you buy more planes you need more tokens. Then the cards aren't included in the boxed set. Then the way they gave you half boxes in the boxed set means you don't quite get enough fighters in the starter set, but if you buy another box of fighters you end up with more than you're likely going to want to use unless you're playing a huge game (playing a game with 9 dakkajets seems way excessive to me except in the biggest of games).

I'm obviously just ranting, I bought it all anyway but if GW had of priced it a bit better and made it feel less like nickle and diming, I'm sure I'd find it easier to get other players in to the game, at this stage if I ask a friend to get in to it unless they just buy a box of fighters like you suggested they're probably going to be in for $200AUD-ish (box of fighters, box of bombers and the rules). That's a tough sell to get a mate in to the game (partly why I ended up just going for 2 squadrons, lol).


**(one could argue at this stage the intention is people would buy 2 squadrons, given the ground defences box is a mixed kit)

Agree, AI definitely seems to be about more than 100p dogfights. We just dont have the crafts for it yet

As for map sizes, im looking to get a 6x4 hexed mat (DeepcutStudios) as ill never have room or even wish to play on anything bigger! A 6x4 with 2" hexes seems enough for most "typical" games.

Anyone come up with some solutions for transporting aircraft?

The aircraft are large but flat, so modifying a standard carrying case seems like it'd waste a lot of space (depth). I'm thinking of carving some foam and putting it in to a case from a hardware store, not sure what works good for shaping it though.

no solution but an idea might be to get one of thouse universal hardcases with foam and use a hot knife to carve out slots in the foam. just slide the planes in the slot nose first.
then carve out a section in the remaining material for the pegs+bases.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Anyone come up with some solutions for transporting aircraft?

The aircraft are large but flat, so modifying a standard carrying case seems like it'd waste a lot of space (depth).

Put them in sideways.

Rules question, if you buy multiple of the same additional weapon, do they count as unique weapons, or increase the ammo count? If it's the former, you could fire all your (for example) rokkits at once, if not you'd have to fire them one set at a time.

One thing I noticed is that Fighta Bommers are actually really good bombers now, previously they were okay but not great, but now you can take 3x sets of bombs or 2x sets of big bombs, meaning you get to roll 12 (!) dice on a bombing run. That's enough, on average, to do 8 structure points of damage. Maybe a bit broken? The bombing mission it'd make most sense just to take 3 or 4 Fighta Bommers and combined with their high speed, they could easily take out all 3 ground targets by the end of turn 2. The bigger bombers might pack a slightly bigger punch, but it doesn't really matter if ground targets only have 4 structure points and the speed advantage of the Fighta Bommer means you don't really much time to stop them before they reach the targets.

It almost seems like the best option in general is just to outfit fighters with bombs rather than taking bombers, but the Fighta Bommer is even more extreme as it can throw 12 dice at a bombing run.

But even the regular Dakkajet, you can take 2 sets of wing bombs for only 20pts total to throw 8 dice and on average 4-ish structure points of damage. Take 5 of them in a 100pt bombing mission and you'd likely end up with a quick and easy 60 victory points.

Am I just totally missing something or did GW totally not playtest it?

FrozenDwarf wrote:no solution but an idea might be to get one of thouse universal hardcases with foam and use a hot knife to carve out slots in the foam. just slide the planes in the slot nose first.
then carve out a section in the remaining material for the pegs+bases.

What sort of universal cases are you thinking? I guess I'd be most worried about breaking the guns off the nose/tail of the marauders, and some of the smaller details off the orky aircraft, but with your idea if you could tune how much pressure it applies to the aircraft it may work.

lord_blackfang wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Anyone come up with some solutions for transporting aircraft?

The aircraft are large but flat, so modifying a standard carrying case seems like it'd waste a lot of space (depth).

Put them in sideways.

Sideways how? I think the wingspan and length is too much for most cases that come to mind to have them on their sides, unless you have a case in mind that has very deep foam? Are there any cases designed to hold cavalry upright? That might be the right depth.

in terms of rules, you might be right but you forget the plane requirments in scenario nr 2 and 4 in rynns campain book, they spesificly demand a bomber "class" plane and that means eavy bommer or grot bommer.


as for the mentioned hard case example:
https://www.amazon.com/Seahorse-SE-300F-Protective-Case-Foam/dp/B001A1VE8U

ofc im not saying go for that spesific one, but something in that style. you local hardware shop is shure to have something like it.

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
in terms of rules, you might be right but you forget the plane requirments in scenario nr 2 and 4 in rynns campain book, they spesificly demand a bomber "class" plane and that means eavy bommer or grot bommer.

That's somewhat true, but of the 2 missions that require a bomber, 1 doesn't actually involve bombing (revolves around keeping the bomber alive) and the other is the Garrison support mission (where it may be more beneficial to take a Grot Bommer that can't even attack ground targets, and still use fighters to attack the ground targets).

The actual bombing mission (mission 6) doesn't require bomber class aircraft.

Unless I'm missing something it just seems like they didn't playtest bombing to realise that it's exceptionally easy to bomb stuff to death to the point you don't need the extra bomb capacity of the bomber class aircraft. That fighters, particularly the Ork fighters, are exceptionally good at taking out ground targets. Even if not playing a specific bombing mission, ground defences seem like they're really easy to kill.

Bomb loads have increased a lot from the original game, where a fighta could previously have a bomb load that let them roll 2 dice a dakkajet now rolls 8 dice, and a fighta bommer has gone from 6 dice with a full bomb load to 12.

I think AI in its current form needs some tweaking still. A couple of those tweaks would be to tone down the bomb loads and make the Destroyer's guns ground attack only. Another one would simply to release some big boards (4x4, 6x4 and 8x4).

as for the mentioned hard case example:
https://www.amazon.com/Seahorse-SE-300F-Protective-Case-Foam/dp/B001A1VE8U

ofc im not saying go for that spesific one, but something in that style. you local hardware shop is shure to have something like it.

Ah okay, I get what you mean now, cheers. Our hardware stores aren't as good as the ones in Murica but I'll have a look.

Anyone know how a dremel goes with shaping foam? Maybe use a high speed steel or brush head on it?

on hard foam, sanding paper at high speed works well, but makes an unbeliable mess.

soft foam i think your only options are hotwire or a long snap off section blade.
personly i have never tryed it cuz when i buy cases sutch as the one i linked, they allways has pluck foam. (aka small pre cut squares you simply pull out to make the rooms you need)

Soulless wrote:

Jack Flask wrote:
So I picked up AI on release but haven't gotten around to playing any games, and I'm seeing in Rynn's World that it lists a large game using a 8'x4' Field of Engagement. Have any of you tried playing a larger game and think that that size is necessary, or could I get away with 6'x4'?

I'm trying to plan out buying a nice cloth/mousepad mat to play on but I'm not sure if I should get two 4'x4' or one 6'x4'.

I know the game is using 2" hexes but 8'x4' seems like quite a lot of space given that it's almost the size of a small Apocalypse table.

I haven't played any big games yet, but the 2.5x2.5 included in the starter set is about the right size for intro games, and the Rynn's World 3x3 board is good for a smallish game. I feel like a medium sized game would go well on a 4x4 or 6x4.

8 wide seems a bit overkill, but maybe could have some fun bomber escort missions. The slowest plane currently in the game (Eavy Bommer) has move 4, so would take all 12 turns to cover an 8 foot board, the next slowest is the Marauder which would take about 10 turns.

It never occurred to me until after reading your post that I could take the map length divided by 2 to get the number of squares...

That's awesome to hear though, thanks! I'll go with a 4'x6' then since I discovered it is insanely hard to find a folding table at anything above that size as well.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Anyone come up with some solutions for transporting aircraft?

Feldherr makes a foam insert for the Wings of Vengeance box that holds all the minis and their bases (disassembled). It's not going to help you once you add to your collection, though.

Looking in to transparent hex overlays to rest on top of other mouse mat tables.

Is there any place selling 2" hex transparent sheets suitably large for AI?

So far the best option I can find is just to buy acetate sheets from an art shop and draw them myself with a marker, which isn't terribly cheap and quite time consuming.

So far, what do people consider a good "standard" pointlimit for AI?

Soulless wrote:
So far, what do people consider a good "standard" pointlimit for AI?

I think it’s not so much a points limit as an aircraft limit, as keeping track of manoeuvres gets tedious with too many planes. I think 5 to 8 per side is a good number. Rather than targeting a set points limit we look at what aircraft would be good (e.g. maybe 2 bombers and 4 fighters) then balance the squadrons to match whatever points that turned out to be.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Soulless wrote:
So far, what do people consider a good "standard" pointlimit for AI?

I think it’s not so much a points limit as an aircraft limit, as keeping track of manoeuvres gets tedious with too many planes. I think 5 to 8 per side is a good number. Rather than targeting a set points limit we look at what aircraft would be good (e.g. maybe 2 bombers and 4 fighters) then balance the squadrons to match whatever points that turned out to be.

Sounds reasonable but still, being able to agree on a points limit and meet up for a game would be nice.
Then again, unless you also agree on what scenario and who will attack/defend, thats not really possible anyway. Im really looking forward to the Matched Play expansion becoming a reality, hope it does.


While on scenarios, can someone explain when keeping something in reserve would ever be a good option in this game? They dont get any flanking advantage and you cant be sure when they will arrive (or even IF, in the unlikely event the dice screw you over and gives your opponent extra VPs...).
And they are always optional. I just dont see any situation where it would be a good idea to not get all firepower on the table turn one, especially since their arrival is limited and uncertain?

So how is the faction balance? I had my first game the other day and felt like the Orks were massively outclassed in every area and only marginally cheaper than the vastly superior Navy.

of the 6 games I've played so far, it's been about 50/50. some games the dakkajets & fightas demolish the thunderbolts & marauders, others the destroyers smoke dakkas early then get chipped away the rest of the game.

I would say overall the game needs more factions to give the variety of opponents it needs.

I feel like the Imperials have a slight advantage in pure dogfights, but the Orks have a slight advantage in the bombing scenario, as the slightly lower price and high speed means they can take out ground targets really early to rack up quick VPs (no waiting several turns for a Marauder to get over the target) then continue the arm wrestle in the air to win out overall.

There is some luck down to what happens in the first turn, as that first turn often has most of the Imperial craft within a good firing range and if they get lucky rolls they can knock a few Dakkajets out of the sky immediately. Orks feel like they rely more on luck due to throwing more dice but needing a 5+ then another 5+ to do damage.