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Arvus and vulture are up for preorder on FW site, to be released the 14th.
25$ for two arvus and 47$ for two vultures, full resin kits.

Consider you can get 4 valkyries/vendettas for 45, i would say pricetag for both planes is steep but maybe its cuz its resin, i dunno.

Even for resin those prices are crazy, it's not worth double the cost of a plastic equivalent. I've got one of every AI release so far but with those prices my collection shall have to be incomplete. Shame as the Vulture does look good.

25 dollars for about 6 points worth of near useless models. All they do is help you outnumber.

 Easy E wrote:
25 dollars for about 6 points worth of near useless models. All they do is help you outnumber.

Or, y’know, win you the game.

Arvus has "Troop Transport" keyword. So at this point can we speculate that Epic is on the horizon?

Grabed the Vulture on preorder but I'll pass on the Arvus. Price is steep but the Vulture sounds awesome in game. Gotta have those punishers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Togusa wrote:
Arvus has "Troop Transport" keyword. So at this point can we speculate that Epic is on the horizon?

Troop transport is used to take objectives in AI. The Arvus seems particularly good at that. Pop in, drop troops/pick up troops, and jet off the board. Epic is possible but the troop transport ability is in AI.

 WhiteHaven wrote:
Grabed the Vulture on preorder but I'll pass on the Arvus. Price is steep but the Vulture sounds awesome in game. Gotta have those punishers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Togusa wrote:
Arvus has "Troop Transport" keyword. So at this point can we speculate that Epic is on the horizon?

Troop transport is used to take objectives in AI. The Arvus seems particularly good at that. Pop in, drop troops/pick up troops, and jet off the board. Epic is possible but the troop transport ability is in AI.

it is the only thing it can do, it has no basic weapons (dunno if you can give it missiles)..
Kinda like a backdoor snatch and grab objectives model.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
And here is the stat card for the vulture for thouse that are thinking about it

 FrozenDwarf wrote:

 WhiteHaven wrote:
Grabed the Vulture on preorder but I'll pass on the Arvus. Price is steep but the Vulture sounds awesome in game. Gotta have those punishers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Togusa wrote:
Arvus has "Troop Transport" keyword. So at this point can we speculate that Epic is on the horizon?

Troop transport is used to take objectives in AI. The Arvus seems particularly good at that. Pop in, drop troops/pick up troops, and jet off the board. Epic is possible but the troop transport ability is in AI.

it is the only thing it can do, it has no basic weapons (dunno if you can give it missiles)..
Kinda like a backdoor snatch and grab objectives model.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
And here is the stat card for the vulture for thouse that are thinking about it

It is the ability to do all the manoeuvres including 8 and the Jink rule that sold it for me. It can also take cradles of missiles, rockets, and bombs but I think you lose the punishers to do that. I wonder if there will be bits for those.

Yea, either punisher alone for 4 points or 2 alt weps for 2 points each.

So this just happened...

Skinners – Hurk Heavy Bomber And Transport Plane - £28.00

The Hurk is one of the heaviest of the Skinners aircraft encountered to date, commonly seen in two variants. The strategic heavy bomber variant has twin bomb bays for heavy ordinance deployment as well as being able to drop lighter bombs from the rear drop down ramp position, the wings can also mount bombs or rockets as required. The transport variant replaces the bomb bay with troop benches and sports heavy machine guns for self defence, alternatively the troop benches can be removed in order to make space for logistics operations.

Fixed armaments include two forward facing twin medium cannon on the fuselage, a rotating twin machine gun turret in the dorsal position and remotely operated rear facing twin machine guns on the tail, other armaments have also been observed.

This is a multipart resin and metal kit with modelling options.

Resin parts:

1 x Fuselage, 1 x Nose section, 2 x Wings (port and starboard), 1 x Vertical stabiliser fin, 1 x Horizontal stabiliser wing, 1 x Bomb bay module, 1 x Transport bay module, 4 x Engine intakes, 4 x Engine thrusters, 4 x Hull fixing dowels.

Metal parts:

I x Skinner Bombardier, 1 x Bomb bay ramp open, 1 x Closed ramp, 2 x Fuselage cannon, 1 x Dorsal turret, 6 x Machine gun barrels.

Model dimensions: Length 115mm, Wing span 140mm

Games Workshop Ork fighter (used without permission) shown for scale purposes only and is not included in this set.

https://vanguardminiatures.co.uk/shop/skinners-hurk-heavy-bomber-and-transport-plane/

Good alternative to the ork bomber, perhaps a bit too mutch C-130 in it, but im shure some like the crossover.

Vanguard has a ton of good stuff for AI.....

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
Good alternative to the ork bomber, perhaps a bit too mutch C-130 in it, but im shure some like the crossover.

The have an Ork Ace in a orked out Phantom lol. Love it

Vultures on their way! Cant wait to paint them

Anyone played any games with the new rules and models? I haven't, but it seems whoever is writing the AI rules values speed and manoeuvrability more than is appropriate. Structure points and firepower seem a lot more critical in the few games I've played, as all the planes are manoeuvrable enough to get a shot off most turns.

I'm also a bit annoyed they got rid of the "ground attack" rules from the first game where certain weapons could only be fired at ground targets, I don't think Vultures and Valkyries should be powerful dog fighters like the current rules seem to suggest.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Anyone played any games with the new rules and models? I haven't, but it seems whoever is writing the AI rules values speed and manoeuvrability more than is appropriate. Structure points and firepower seem a lot more critical in the few games I've played, as all the planes are manoeuvrable enough to get a shot off most turns.

I'm also a bit annoyed they got rid of the "ground attack" rules from the first game where certain weapons could only be fired at ground targets, I don't think Vultures and Valkyries should be powerful dog fighters like the current rules seem to suggest.

Waiting on my Vultures, I have the others primed and ready for paint and decals but I want to work on them together. 2 others in our group got the Tau so I hope to play soon. The Vultures and Vendettas/Valkyries do look very dangerous as dog fighters. Lore-wise that isn't the case but it would be lie if I said I wasn't looking forward to 6 lascannons or punishers in the air lol!

AllSeeingSkink wrote:


I'm also a bit annoyed they got rid of the "ground attack" rules from the first game where certain weapons could only be fired at ground targets, I don't think Vultures and Valkyries should be powerful dog fighters like the current rules seem to suggest.

Huh?

you refering to the strafing run change??

i dont see how valk platform are dogfighers, they are fighter class yes, but no dogfighters, they are gun platforms.

 FrozenDwarf wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:


I'm also a bit annoyed they got rid of the "ground attack" rules from the first game where certain weapons could only be fired at ground targets, I don't think Vultures and Valkyries should be powerful dog fighters like the current rules seem to suggest.

Huh?

you refering to the strafing run change??

In the old rules (the ones from Forge World a decade ago) had a special rule called "Ground Attack" the same way the current rules have "Aerial Attack" that meant the weapon could only be used to attack ground targets. So most weapons on Valkyries and Vultures were labelled as "ground attack" that meant you couldn't use them to shoot down other aircraft.

It meant the old rules had much better defined roles, with certain aircraft mainly only being useful for ground support and others being more dedicated fighters.

i dont see how valk platform are dogfighers, they are fighter class yes, but no dogfighters, they are gun platforms.

In terms of how they actually perform on the table there's no distinction between a gun platform and a fighter, the former will typically be good at the latter. They should be like helicopters, which struggle to engage with actual fighters, but on the table you can get a Valkyrie with 6 Lascannon shots for only 21pts, that's going to make it a more effective fighter than, say, a Lightning, which has less firepower and only 2 structure points for a similar points cost. The added speed and manoeuvrability of the Lightning is, IMO, not really worth losing a structure point and having a lot less firepower.


I have a few gripes with the new AI, but I think one of the big ones is aircraft roles don't really make sense. The Marauder Destroyer, Vulture and Valkyrie all make for effective fighter planes when they should be close ground support. Meanwhile, the fighter planes can carry so many bombs that they are in most circumstances better bombers than the actual bomber class aircraft.

Yea on that i agree, should be more class roles. Valky is not a fighter, it is a transport.....
I never got around to play FW AI.

Lightning, doh, i struggle to justify its inclusion based on the stats alone. Valk/Vend is better, thunderbolt is better, upcoming Avenger is better.
What is this thing supposed to be good at??

Its like, the only 2 fighters you need is thunderbolt and valk/vend, thouse 2 planes has sutch a big multirole capasity that it aint fun.....

Atleast with Tau, each plane has a use(alltough i personly dont find any use for the plasma weapons)

better defined role and some restrictions on what can shoot what. a penalty to hit would go along way to "fixing" it.

Avenger Strike fighters are going up for order this weekend coming I think. Gonna order a box lol.

maybe, lot of new stuff on that sat prev, could be 2 weeks time before the planes.

But since they are plastic it gives me high hopes that the remora drones allso will be.

Now that they are fleshing out the range, I am tempted to pick some of these new models up but use the old FW AI rules.

Curse you GW!

After opening the Vultures I have noticed the models don't have the missile cradles that are in the pictures and description for the listing on FW. Sent them an email about it.

 WhiteHaven wrote:
After opening the Vultures I have noticed the models don't have the missile cradles that are in the pictures and description for the listing on FW. Sent them an email about it.

now that's lame

Racerguy180 wrote:better defined role and some restrictions on what can shoot what. a penalty to hit would go along way to "fixing" it.

Yeah, I've thought a to hit modifier might be a good way of dealing with it all, they could divide aircraft into 3 levels in terms of their ability to dogfight, and have a table like this:



But it would require reworking the points values and maybe even structure points, and turrets would have to be exempt from the modifiers. I imagine aircraft like the Lightning being "Very High", then the +1 to hit modifier would offset their relatively low firepower. If we start getting aircraft that are both manoeuvrable and good firepower it may become hard to balance though.

But it would kind of represent the fact that a bomber may find itself with a fighter aircraft in its firing arc, but in reality because the fighter is agile and small, the bomber can't effectively bring its fixed guns to bear against it.

I really think GW need to work on the rules. The game just isn't that fun at the moment, I'm mainly buying stuff because I like the models and reminisce about how the game used to play back when Forge World released rules for it. The only positive is that the hexes do make the game faster to play compared to the old system of using cards, but the few small changes made to the rules from the FW version has really changed how the game plays, and not in a good way.

FrozenDwarf wrote:maybe, lot of new stuff on that sat prev, could be 2 weeks time before the planes.

But since they are plastic it gives me high hopes that the remora drones allso will be.

Easy E wrote:Now that they are fleshing out the range, I am tempted to pick some of these new models up but use the old FW AI rules.

Curse you GW!

They are really nice models. I like the old resin models also, they were very detailed for their smaller scale, but the plastic models are nice.

I'm hoping we start getting some more factions, Imperials now have 3 different fighter aircraft plus the Valkyries, Vultures, Arvus, Marauder and Marauder destroyer, would be good to see some effort go into the other factions. Can't complain too much though, at least we have the Tau now, which seem to have a slightly different play style.

WhiteHaven wrote:After opening the Vultures I have noticed the models don't have the missile cradles that are in the pictures and description for the listing on FW. Sent them an email about it.

That sucks. From the Skies of Fire, some of my Tiger Shark bits were broken and missing in the box, it's such a tiny part, but maybe I should still contact GW as they're still bloody expensive and I don't like spending hours of time on a kit that was broken before I even started.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Racerguy180 wrote:better defined role and some restrictions on what can shoot what. a penalty to hit would go along way to "fixing" it.

Yeah, I've thought a to hit modifier might be a good way of dealing with it all, they could divide aircraft into 3 levels in terms of their ability to dogfight, and have a table like this:



But it would require reworking the points values and maybe even structure points, and turrets would have to be exempt from the modifiers. I imagine aircraft like the Lightning being "Very High", then the +1 to hit modifier would offset their relatively low firepower. If we start getting aircraft that are both manoeuvrable and good firepower it may become hard to balance though.

But it would kind of represent the fact that a bomber may find itself with a fighter aircraft in its firing arc, but in reality because the fighter is agile and small, the bomber can't effectively bring its fixed guns to bear against it.

I really think GW need to work on the rules. The game just isn't that fun at the moment, I'm mainly buying stuff because I like the models and reminisce about how the game used to play back when Forge World released rules for it. The only positive is that the hexes do make the game faster to play compared to the old system of using cards, but the few small changes made to the rules from the FW version has really changed how the game plays, and not in a good way.

FrozenDwarf wrote:maybe, lot of new stuff on that sat prev, could be 2 weeks time before the planes.

But since they are plastic it gives me high hopes that the remora drones allso will be.

Easy E wrote:Now that they are fleshing out the range, I am tempted to pick some of these new models up but use the old FW AI rules.

Curse you GW!

They are really nice models. I like the old resin models also, they were very detailed for their smaller scale, but the plastic models are nice.

I'm hoping we start getting some more factions, Imperials now have 3 different fighter aircraft plus the Valkyries, Vultures, Arvus, Marauder and Marauder destroyer, would be good to see some effort go into the other factions. Can't complain too much though, at least we have the Tau now, which seem to have a slightly different play style.

WhiteHaven wrote:After opening the Vultures I have noticed the models don't have the missile cradles that are in the pictures and description for the listing on FW. Sent them an email about it.

That sucks. From the Skies of Fire, some of my Tiger Shark bits were broken and missing in the box, it's such a tiny part, but maybe I should still contact GW as they're still bloody expensive and I don't like spending hours of time on a kit that was broken before I even started.

GW has alway been awesome in the customer service dept for me, I would definitely contact them. They might just send you a whole new sprue or box of them! The resin Vultures are beautiful and have amazing detail as usual. Love the models but I would like the weapons as well lol.

Could allways send them a mail for rules feedback, if noone does it, they may think the game is fine and dandy.

Tau has taken up the multi choise role when it comes to faction identity. they have a wepon choise for all 3 ranges (rails for long range, ions for avrage all ranges with fokus on mid range, and burstcannons for the more effective ion but at a mutch higer cost.
A barracuda whit rails and drones are in the low 20p, same plane whit burstcannons tosses you over 30p and that is before pilot/equipment upgrades. a tiger shark with burstcannons and drones will hit you in the mid 40ps.
all 3 weapon options are included in the kits.

So you can have an elite and very deadly wing whit few planes or cheap long range fokused large wing.
Kinda why remora drones are a must include, 16p scouts with jinx and short range weapons.

Absolutely contact customer service. I had one weird squished lascannon on a marauder from the starter and they sent me a box of marauders. Decent.

Contacted customer service, they asked for another pic and said they'd send a replacement.

EDIT: Received the replacement sprue.