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2017/07/24 20:49:57
Subject: Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
CptJake wrote: The US does not jail conscientious objectors. Not sure what would have prompted that belief.
Other countries exist. I know people personally who've been in jail as conscientious objectors. That said, as I understand it, the US retains a potential 5 year prison term for failure to submit to the draft should one be reinstated.
At least in the US, that's separate from the conscientious objector status.
Once a draft is instituted, someone applies for CO status. It's not the same as simply failing to show up.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/24 20:53:43
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2017/07/24 20:55:54
Subject: Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
CptJake wrote: The US does not jail conscientious objectors. Not sure what would have prompted that belief.
Other countries exist. I know people personally who've been in jail as conscientious objectors. That said, as I understand it, the US retains a potential 5 year prison term for failure to submit to the draft should one be reinstated.
At least in the US, that's separate from the conscientious objector status.
Once a draft is instituted, someone applies for CO status. It's not the same as simply failing to show up.
Interesting. Is it guaranteed to be awarded?
2017/07/24 20:58:16
Subject: Re:Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
Not at all: you have to have an interview and then it's established how authentic your beliefs are believed to be. Not 100% sure but I believe that some degrees of CO can be drafted anyway and serve in non-combat roles, and some are wholly exempt, and some are determined to not be authentic/honest enough and get regularly drafted.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2017/07/24 21:13:47
Subject: Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
CptJake wrote: The US does not jail conscientious objectors. Not sure what would have prompted that belief.
Other countries exist. I know people personally who've been in jail as conscientious objectors.
And yet both those who mentioned incarcerating conscientious objectors specifically mentioned the US. Hence my reply.
nfe wrote: That said, as I understand it, the US retains a potential 5 year prison term for failure to submit to the draft should one be reinstated.
And that has nothing to do with my statement. Every male must register at age 18. If you are a conscientious objector you still register, and if called up make your case and go home.
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2017/07/24 21:24:12
Subject: Re:Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
Ouze wrote: Not at all: you have to have an interview and then it's established how authentic your beliefs are believed to be. Not 100% sure but I believe that some degrees of CO can be drafted anyway and serve in non-combat roles, and some are wholly exempt, and some are determined to not be authentic/honest enough and get regularly drafted.
See Hacksaw Ridge, for example.
Full Frontal Nerdity
2017/07/24 21:28:06
Subject: Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
As we are moving from a world with a world hegemon into a multi-polar world, I could maybe see a situation where a draft might be necessary. Say when two major powers get involved in a war about something important, but still not a "Survival of the nation" situation, when both sides aren't ready/willing to start flinging nukes just yet. Or maybe a escalated proxy war, both sides have troops on the ground but they aren't "officially" at war. It would of course always be a hairs edge from escalating into nuclear war, but I think there could be a possibility for a draft moving forward.
You'd need to build an awful lot of jails to deal with the numbers of concientious objectors you'd get if you attempted to reinstate a draft for anything less than an end-of-life-as-we-know-it war.
Full Frontal Nerdity
2017/07/24 21:43:42
Subject: Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
As we are moving from a world with a world hegemon into a multi-polar world, I could maybe see a situation where a draft might be necessary. Say when two major powers get involved in a war about something important, but still not a "Survival of the nation" situation, when both sides aren't ready/willing to start flinging nukes just yet. Or maybe a escalated proxy war, both sides have troops on the ground but they aren't "officially" at war. It would of course always be a hairs edge from escalating into nuclear war, but I think there could be a possibility for a draft moving forward.
You'd need to build an awful lot of jails to deal with the numbers of concientious objectors you'd get if you attempted to reinstate a draft for anything less than an end-of-life-as-we-know-it war.
That a nation reinstating a draft would need to build an awful lot of jails to deal with the number of conscientious objectors that would appear for anything less than an end-of-life-as-we-know-it war.
2017/07/24 21:47:46
Subject: Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
Dreadwinter wrote: We still don't send conscientious objectors to jail though, so why are we building jails?
I am very confused.
Who is 'we'? As I said above, nations other than the US exist. Some places do encarcerate conscientious objectors, and others did when they had conscription.
The only way I think my original post could be read as referencing the US is if you took the general 'you' to mean the actual person I was replying to, and their nation. But I think they had a German flag, anyway...
2017/07/24 21:57:38
Subject: Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
Dreadwinter wrote: We still don't send conscientious objectors to jail though, so why are we building jails?
I am very confused.
Who is 'we'? As I said above, nations other than the US exist. Some places do encarcerate conscientious objectors, and others did when they had conscription.
The only way I think my original post could be read as referencing the US is if you took the general 'you' to mean the actual person I was replying to, and their nation. But I think they had a German flag, anyway...
As we are moving from a world with a world hegemon into a multi-polar world, I could maybe see a situation where a draft might be necessary. Say when two major powers get involved in a war about something important, but still not a "Survival of the nation" situation, when both sides aren't ready/willing to start flinging nukes just yet. Or maybe a escalated proxy war, both sides have troops on the ground but they aren't "officially" at war. It would of course always be a hairs edge from escalating into nuclear war, but I think there could be a possibility for a draft moving forward.
You'd need to build an awful lot of jails to deal with the numbers of concientious objectors you'd get if you attempted to reinstate a draft for anything less than an end-of-life-as-we-know-it war.
Shouldn't be a problem, the USA is already world leader in incarcerating people
But more seriously, if things are heading where I think they are, handling conscientious objectors is gonna be small fry compared to the bigger problems.
This might be your problem.
2017/07/24 22:02:42
Subject: Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
ulgurstasta wrote: Shouldn't be a problem, the USA is already world leader in incarcerating people But more seriously, if things are heading where I think they are, handling conscientious objectors is gonna be small fry compared to the bigger problems.
This might be your problem.
Yes, I'm aware that someone other than me mentioned the US (clearly sarcastically!) after two other posts talking about concientious objectors. It's not my problem that other folks decided to conflate them all, or claim that all the posts about the subject explicitly mentioned the US, it's theirs.
Anyway, probably wasted enough time on people misreading what was a pretty flippant post, so...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/24 22:12:24
2017/07/24 22:14:13
Subject: Re:Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
redleger wrote: For some reason injuries continue to sky rocket even though standards are being continously dropped. They even reingeneered the entire PT program to prevent injuries. It does not seem tobe doing the trick.
I would be suspect that would have less to do with the fact millennials are softer, and more to do with the weight of a combat loadout going from 40-60lbs in WW2 to 60-100lbs currently. Significant arthritis by the mid-30s is, I suspect, not something you can avoid by a better training regimen.
Hopefully at some point technology advances to create ballistic plates that don't result in 30-odd pounds of body armor.
on this subject, just saw a video on a dude in medieval plate vs a modern soldier in full kit. The dude in armor is wearing a lot of heavy stuff, but its distributed well all over the body, with lots of flexible parts, where the modern soldier carries it all on the shoulders and back and hips, and it shows.
Though the modern soldier does not need a squire to get into gear either...
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2017/07/24 22:43:22
Subject: Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
redleger wrote: For some reason injuries continue to sky rocket even though standards are being continously dropped. They even reingeneered the entire PT program to prevent injuries. It does not seem tobe doing the trick.
I would be suspect that would have less to do with the fact millennials are softer, and more to do with the weight of a combat loadout going from 40-60lbs in WW2 to 60-100lbs currently. Significant arthritis by the mid-30s is, I suspect, not something you can avoid by a better training regimen.
Hopefully at some point technology advances to create ballistic plates that don't result in 30-odd pounds of body armor.
on this subject, just saw a video on a dude in medieval plate vs a modern soldier in full kit. The dude in armor is wearing a lot of heavy stuff, but its distributed well all over the body, with lots of flexible parts, where the modern soldier carries it all on the shoulders and back and hips, and it shows.
Though the modern soldier does not need a squire to get into gear either...
Just give it a few years. Squires will come back in to style.
2017/07/24 22:47:47
Subject: Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
redleger wrote: For some reason injuries continue to sky rocket even though standards are being continously dropped. They even reingeneered the entire PT program to prevent injuries. It does not seem tobe doing the trick.
I would be suspect that would have less to do with the fact millennials are softer, and more to do with the weight of a combat loadout going from 40-60lbs in WW2 to 60-100lbs currently. Significant arthritis by the mid-30s is, I suspect, not something you can avoid by a better training regimen.
Hopefully at some point technology advances to create ballistic plates that don't result in 30-odd pounds of body armor.
on this subject, just saw a video on a dude in medieval plate vs a modern soldier in full kit. The dude in armor is wearing a lot of heavy stuff, but its distributed well all over the body, with lots of flexible parts, where the modern soldier carries it all on the shoulders and back and hips, and it shows.
Though the modern soldier does not need a squire to get into gear either...
Just give it a few years. Squires will come back in to style.
If power armour or powered systems come into fruitions', youl need a squire to don your warplate once more..
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"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
2017/07/24 23:03:37
Subject: Re:Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
Ouze wrote: So where is the OP? Or, having pooped, has he swooped?
I think the OP failed to attend his draft call up lol
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
2017/07/25 03:50:50
Subject: Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
Though the modern soldier does not need a squire to get into gear either...
Neither did knights. They didn't NEED squires to get into their armor, and they were perfectly capable of mounting their horses by themselves.
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I suggest that if a draft were to happen, a lot of the 70% will suddenly find themselves classed as near super soldiers in order to get bodies into action.
Historically there is also the greatest generation to follow, where heroic acts, with relatively few units (forgive my terminology) involved in much of the fiercest fighting. Of course there werealso be episodes of self inflicted wounds to get out of the war. refusing orders, low morale, low operational readiness, poor planning and desertion.
hmm.....it actually appears that millennials would become the next greatest generation.
2017/08/27 17:00:42
Subject: Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
Millennials could handle it better than the generation who thinks we're all lazy feths. A better question is if baby boomers can handle having no money for retirement. Guess they shouldn't have been so lazy.
Peregrine wrote: Correct answer: who cares. WWIII will be over about 45 minutes after it starts, and there will be no surviving government to organize a draft.
I can tell you that, in the event of nuclear Armageddon, your government will still be operating. I have a mountain on top my duty station, and a 10.5 hour work day these days. After this last week, if I am the only cockroach to crawl out of the rubble, I will MAKE you have a government so you can all feel my pain.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
2017/08/27 17:48:17
Subject: Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." Attributed by Plato to Socrates ~380 BC.
Our sires' age was worse than our grandsires'. We, their sons, are more
worthless than they; so in our turn we shall give the world a progeny yet more corrupt.
-Horace, 20 BC.
Grumpy old people complaining that the youth these days are not nearly as good as their own generation was are from all times. Therefore, I wouldn't worry.
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2017/08/27 20:46:24
Subject: Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
With that being said, I feel as if generation Y would most likely be draft dodgers/rebellious being that they grew up with
all this technology like social media, text-messaging, IPhones, instant entertainment (Youtube, Netflix), celebrity influences, all of which give them this rebellious mentality.
In other words, a lot of today's millennials from what I can gather from my own personal experiences have gone really soft, with a few sprinkles of stubbornness and self-entitlement.
An example of this would be towards the end of Vietnam in 1973, when a lot of drafted privates (who were probably draft dodgers from the start) began turning on their sergeants and superiors. Yet there were still some who were willing to honorably serve their country.
Fast forwards forty or so years and compare that generation to this one.
What do you guys think?
We may have grown softer than in previous eras, but that isn't a generational phenomena. It's a problem throughout the Western world, and in some parts of Asia. And it crosses generational lines.
In any generation, there are those (numbers will vary generation to generation) who have the potential for greatness and will step up to the plate when the time comes.
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2017/08/27 21:52:04
Subject: Re:Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
The withdraws some would have not looking at their Smartcells would be interesting. Espacially on patrols
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2017/08/27 21:54:23
Subject: Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
Drafted Millennials would probably be stunned to be able to live on one job.
The interesting ones would be the drafted hipsters, and the undoubtedly dire impact they would have on military service. Just imagine when their personal sidearms are replica blackpowder 1800s dueling pistols. Mustache regulations would be pushed to the breaking point. MREs would be artfully served in boots, combat harnesses, and basically anything but the mess kit. Were the war to last long enough, you might even see 'deconstructed' options enter circulation. Their penchant for the esoteric and outdated would lead to hording of antiquated equipment, and application of often overlooked regulations.
I've no doubt they'd still be effective soldiers- it would just be more entertaining to watch than Tank Girl, or the hippies helmet art.
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2017/08/27 22:13:03
Subject: Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
