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Well of course had the baby boomers been drafted they would have performed so poorly they would lose a war with a vastly inferior foreign power. Oh wait

Now they are upset social security isn't giving them enough free money for working half-ass jobs their whole lives.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Well of course had the baby boomers been drafted they would have performed so poorly they would lose a war with a vastly inferior foreign power. Oh wait

Now they are upset social security isn't giving them enough free money for working half-ass jobs their whole lives.

In all fairness, the rules of engagement were jacked, forcing our military to fight with an arm tithed solidly behind their back.
My platoon sergent was Marine recon and told me about coming under fire from rubber plantations and having to radio in for permission to return fire because the higher ups didn't want to damage the trees.
An uncle flew missions over North Vietnam and was forbidden from attacking railroads and docks even though they could see war materials being unloaded. Ford had a plant in Russia that was cranking out military vehicles to be sent to North Vietnam.

As far as poor performance goes, you are very mistaken, and you would realize it if you looked at any major engagements over there.

On topic, I think the man or woman in the trenches does a great job today just as was done in the past. The politicians are what Jack them up.

I think I miss the millennial cut off by 4 years...so when I was in (until I was medically discharged, but that's another story) I didn't have the opportunity to see how millennials would react to the military.

I also don't think that the generation as a whole would necessarily be the first and foremost issue if attempting to institute a draft. Good luck trying to forcibly conscript Hispanics and African-Americans after Vietnam (which led to the cries that black soldiers were being unjustly victimized and the fear we would witness massive African-American casualties prior to Desert Storm) AND 20+ years of the war on drugs which has led to both an absurd amount of unwarranted minority arrests on trumped up charges as well as a wave cops killing African-Americans under questionable circumstances.

Then you have the issue of whether or not to draft women on the basis of equality and a lot of more "traditional" people will probably be widely opposed to that. You also have the issue of drafting Muslims to consider as well. One of my DI's was Lebanese, but I have no idea if he was actually Muslim. I know many serve without issue, but I don't know how well the community as a whole would take to being drafted in the event of a war against an Arab state.

The physical fitness issue is the biggest one. When I left for MCRD we had guys failing to do a single pullup and still being shipped out for basic. I'd say over half of my platoon (and we won the company PFT award for highest platoon score) couldn't do 10 pull ups and were running sub 23:00. Hell, there were guys who couldn't max crunches and that's not something I can even comprehend...in short, the minimal physical fitness standards seem low to me in many ways. Yet somehow over half the draft eligible population, can't meet them? I should note, that I most likely should have been disqualified prior to even shipping out due to some hearing difficulties (I can't hear certain pitches and almost got busted week one for that), have exercise-induced asthma, and have some gait issues that ultimately led to me tearing up my knees from the constant running. So, "technically" I shouldn't even meet the standards.

As far as millennials go:

1) There's a lot of talk about rates of obesity, but the millennial generation can't be categorized as such. You really have three very disparate groups now. There are those who are overweight/obese. Most still probably fall into the category of average and average is good enough to physically get through boot. Then there is a third group that exists in larger numbers than ever before, the "gym rats." A lot of them shun crazy endurance work, but endurance is easier to build than strength and run times are an overrated statistic as far as gauging combat physical fitness. I'd say yes, you need to be sable to walk all day, but that's easy. An 800m run in boots and utility wear (like the USMC has implemented) is a better assessment than a pseudo cross country 3 miler in running shoes.

2) Special snowflakes and attitude adjustments. There have always been large numbers of young men that rebel against authority. The numbers of those who maintain that attitude into service quickly dwindle when reality sets in. Anyone with a negative attitude is going to run quickly into the reality of you're facing a dishonorable discharge that'll screw your life up quick and I doubt most people are dumb enough to keep running.

3) There are already tons of millennials in the military that are serving honorably. Just because someone is posts gak or games all day doesn't mean they can't be something more. One veteran I know literally lives on imgur now, but he did his duty while he was in. As crappy as I think most social media is, I can't really say it's much worse than watching the stupidity that has dominated TV for most of its existence.

4) Stupidity goes viral. The idiotic stuff you see on the internet about millennials has always been going on. We just now have the technology to broadcast and disseminate it all over the world. The Instagram baddies of today were the mean girls of yesterday. The guys hooked on free internet porn are no different than guy's digging through their dad's "hidden" stash of Playboys. Sure, there's a lot of strange, not conducive to military service stuff out there, but I think it's wildly exaggerated.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Relapse wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Well of course had the baby boomers been drafted they would have performed so poorly they would lose a war with a vastly inferior foreign power. Oh wait

Now they are upset social security isn't giving them enough free money for working half-ass jobs their whole lives.

In all fairness, the rules of engagement were jacked, forcing our military to fight with an arm tithed solidly behind their back.
My platoon sergent was Marine recon and told me about coming under fire from rubber plantations and having to radio in for permission to return fire because the higher ups didn't want to damage the trees.
An uncle flew missions over North Vietnam and was forbidden from attacking railroads and docks even though they could see war materials being unloaded. Ford had a plant in Russia that was cranking out military vehicles to be sent to North Vietnam.

As far as poor performance goes, you are very mistaken, and you would realize it if you looked at any major engagements over there.

On topic, I think the man or woman in the trenches does a great job today just as was done in the past. The politicians are what Jack them up.

Politicians have been jacking up wars since America decided it needed to police the world. McNamara was just the beginning.

Seemingly the only lesson America learned from Vietnam is that a volunteer force is preferable.

 Jihadin wrote:
The withdraws some would have not looking at their Smartcells would be interesting. Espacially on patrols

You have no idea how many of the gaks I've busted with their cellphones out in a facility that prohibits them. Or cameras.

'We know about their nuclear facilities because idiots took selfies at work. Please do not be these morons!'. Then again, we have bosses who put handicap bathroom stalls up two flights of stairs, so.....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Relapse wrote:
The politicians are what Jack them up.

That's hardly a new thing:

Ambrose Bierce wrote: REAR, n. In American military matters, that exposed part of the army that is nearest to Congress.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
The withdraws some would have not looking at their Smartcells would be interesting. Espacially on patrols

You have no idea how many of the gaks I've busted with their cellphones out in a facility that prohibits them. Or cameras.

'We know about their nuclear facilities because idiots took selfies at work. Please do not be these morons!'. Then again, we have bosses who put handicap bathroom stalls up two flights of stairs, so.....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Relapse wrote:
The politicians are what Jack them up.

That's hardly a new thing:

Ambrose Bierce wrote: REAR, n. In American military matters, that exposed part of the army that is nearest to Congress.

Very true. They seemed to have really picked up the pace, though, with Vietnam.

Relapse wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Well of course had the baby boomers been drafted they would have performed so poorly they would lose a war with a vastly inferior foreign power. Oh wait

Now they are upset social security isn't giving them enough free money for working half-ass jobs their whole lives.

In all fairness, the rules of engagement were jacked, forcing our military to fight with an arm tithed solidly behind their back.
My platoon sergent was Marine recon and told me about coming under fire from rubber plantations and having to radio in for permission to return fire because the higher ups didn't want to damage the trees.
An uncle flew missions over North Vietnam and was forbidden from attacking railroads and docks even though they could see war materials being unloaded. Ford had a plant in Russia that was cranking out military vehicles to be sent to North Vietnam.

As far as poor performance goes, you are very mistaken, and you would realize it if you looked at any major engagements over there.

On topic, I think the man or woman in the trenches does a great job today just as was done in the past. The politicians are what Jack them up.

Sorry, going by the OP I thought this was a thread for one to pull gak out of their ass. Certainly what I said would be a ridiculous opinion to carry in a rational conversation, much like the idea that millennials are somehow inferior to any other generation.

no way in hell they could, but that is not becoue of the unfit part, it is the personal tech.

when they cant leave their smarts OFF for even 5 mins, how would they survive 1 month whitout them, or the internet.

"lol today's kids and their smart phones"

Finally, we're just about where OP started. Speaking of, where did he get to?

 Ouze wrote:
"lol today's kids and their smart phones"

Finally, we're just about where OP started. Speaking of, where did he get to?

I dunno. I lost track because my phone was off all weekend while I was out on a river, drinking beer and having the time of my life. It was cool too because I talked with a friend of mine and I are going to spend late September hiking around the Smokey Mountains, which presumably have no cell signal. It's tough but being able to be vastly out of cell range in the middle of nowhere is a welcome vacation away from having to constantly check my phone for a job that's harder and less rewarding than than the ones most of the nitwits 30 years older than me at the same employer have because I have worse benefits, less vacation, and more to prove than they do yet I have to hear them prattle on about how "back in my day" while all the while, there were on-campus kegers, offsite parties the likes of which are still legendary, paid business trips, and almost everyone in the company that's been there longer than me gets a full extra vacation I'll never see (and I get a full week of vacation the poor bastards after me will never see on top of that).

Is... is 33 still a millennial? I can't ever keep track.

Complaining about smart phones and internet makes about as much sense as saying the baby boomers couldn't survive without their cars and their TV.

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
no way in hell they could, but that is not becoue of the unfit part, it is the personal tech.

when they cant leave their smarts OFF for even 5 mins, how would they survive 1 month whitout them, or the internet.

That's a generalisation, and you know it.
That, or a trolling attempt.

On the chance I'm wrong, a few examples shouldn't go awry (includes both 5 minute examples, and 1 month examples):
- Millennials already in the military.
- Mandatory exams, of which it's common to be bereft of technology for at least an hour, up to 2 and a half.
- Socialising in good company
- Playing board games, D&D, Warhammer, etc etc
- Millenials doing charity work in more remote countries, ones that lack facilities for Internet and personal tech.

People were a lot better way back when. Its a scientific fact.

 daedalus wrote:
and almost everyone in the company that's been there longer than me gets a full extra vacation I'll never see (and I get a full week of vacation the poor bastards after me will never see on top of that).

Yeah, so, they were able to afford college by working part time, graduated at 22 and were immediately able to find a job, and by 26 were in a career that allowed them to buy a house and start a family on a single income, etc etc - but hey, you got an iphone, so what are you complaining about?

The whole lazy millenials thing drives me a bit crazy. I feel like it is a bit of a thing but its also blown out of proportion and I feel where they are coming from. Ive worked at jobs before where Im at the bottom working 60+ hour work weeks, busting my ass because the top 5 guys on the list have been there since 92 and decided they only need to show up and get a paycheck. You wanna talk about lazy how about we talk about that. Im not saying they shouldnt get pick of the litter and so on but waaay to many times have I literally seen those guys have 12 smoke breaks a shift and always lugging a fresh cup of coffee around and taking a piss break every 20 minutes.

Thats my experience in the work force, as far as the military goes I couldnt tell you, Im sure in all reality theres good workers and terrible workers just like everywhere else. And most importantly I do know from several military types in my life, they much prefer someone that WANTED to join next to them in the gak, than someone that was forced there

 Ouze wrote:
"lol today's kids and their smart phones"

Finally, we're just about where OP started. Speaking of, where did he get to?

Perhaps he somehow managed to get himself drafted and was going to take this thread to his local board in order to plead the case he couldn't handle being drafted. His gambit must have failed.

Relapse wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
"lol today's kids and their smart phones"

Finally, we're just about where OP started. Speaking of, where did he get to?

Perhaps he somehow managed to get himself drafted and was going to take this thread to his local board in order to plead the case he couldn't handle being drafted. His gambit must have failed.

Ya. Enlisted today. MI series

Edit

I see a lot of applicants getting denied off the bat from enlisting into the Services. Then again that also determines how the Doctors eval the Applicants. One can get PDQ on first attempt but has to come back for Consults from Specialists to determined what and what they cannot do. Which varies from Service to Service. Ex. Coming hot on a piss test is immediate No Go for the USMC to enlist. Quite a few with mental issues who either misread or FUBAR a question. I think the hardest one to accept was severe acne on the back who had to get a Waiver from a full bird to get into the Army. Athlete's feet another No GO till its cleared. Looks we get when we tell them to use foot spray and piss on them in the shower is priceless

Thats some new slang to me, "Waiver from a full bird" whats a full bird?

I don't know, the millennials I know are ready to do what it takes to get a job done kind of people.

They may not be the ideal example of what the military wants in a soldier, but what generation was?

 KingCracker wrote:
Thats some new slang to me, "Waiver from a full bird" whats a full bird?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonel_(United_States)

If we were in a draft sitaution, a lot of things thatwaive people now would be ignored. The need for manpower would allow the requirements to dwindle or change. Age and hieght/weight are the ones that come to mind most readily in past wars, and even int he War on Terror the requirements for I.Q. were changed.

This is what has always happened historically and would also happen in a future draft. Just like past drafts, in future drafts the only people who would get out of it would be Richie Rich and his ilk.

I'm ex-forces.

I'd love to see these soft 'Boomers' drafted so they can put their money where their mouth is.

In response to the whole 'Da yoof of today and their gadgets' moaning... I'm reminded of this


(Time 2.09 if it doesn't automatically start at the passing out parade)


War today is not the same as war in the past. If the country starts drafting everyone, something has gone horribly wrong. Computer guided missiles, aircraft, warships and a whole host of technology makes large blobs of infantry obsolete.

Yesterday while at the gym, I observed that the Elliptical there had a setting for performing the 1.5 mile run section of the Navy PFT. On a whim I tried it and scored an Excellent. Granted, that's gonna be easier than a flat run since it's an elliptical.

I'm not sure what the rest of the PFT requirements look like, but based upon that, I'd wager I could probably pass the Navy test, at least.

"Today's Millenials" - doubtful they could handle a draft.

Basic training would be hard for someone who has been taught to see the world through the perspective of inclusiveness. Feels like there are enough people who fit this description that unit cohesion would be an issue.

My cousin recruits for the Marines and said the washout rate spiked about 5 years ago. His unit screens for a variety of red flags that go beyond physical / mental fitness, they are mostly social. One of his test questions is about video games, not going to share but it's basically about knowing names of characters. People who know the answer get sent to the Army recruiter.

It's doubtful that the country could handle a draft. If the US (or the species, eg alien invasion) faces the kind of existential threat the creates the necessity of drafting millions of people into the military then there's a good chance we're all gonna die. Maybe millennial draftees, and the rest of us, would rise to the occasion but if we've already gone past all our technologically advanced weaponry to the point where we're pulling people off the street, giving them a gun and a helmet and shipping them to the front then the odds of a positive outcome are pretty low.

We had a draft for Vietnam because of political reasons not military necessity and under the current social and political conditions we won't see that again. If military necessity requires a draft then we'd all better hope kids today can handle the situation.

 techsoldaten wrote:
One of his test questions is about video games, not going to share but it's basically about knowing names of characters. People who know the answer get sent to the Army recruiter.

That seems...irrelevant to the job.

 Spinner wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
One of his test questions is about video games, not going to share but it's basically about knowing names of characters. People who know the answer get sent to the Army recruiter.

That seems...irrelevant to the job.

It does seem like proper military methodology though.

The last time we had a draft was World War 2.

The last time someone in my family fought on the battlefield was World War 1. My Great Grandfather, on my mothers side.

Even during the draft, my grandparents weren't soldiers. Instead, one was a manager in a munitions factory. The other? Built Fighter Planes (I want to say Hurricanes, but don't quote me on that).

That Simpsons joke, pretty much accurate. Millennials, Xillennials, whoever, they have skills that may be required in National Service, they'll do their jobs.

The hilarious irony of the thread is that millenials would more likely be drafted to pilot drones digitally--something they would excel at while the self righteous techsoladen's of the country would be sitting on their asses and continue to behave like insensitive pricks.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The hilarious irony of the thread is that millenials would more likely be drafted to pilot drones digitally--something they would excel at while the self righteous techsoladen's of the country would be sitting on their asses and continue to behave like insensitive pricks.

I think the real irony is that literally everything worth noting about this stupidly insulting question was said on page one, but not only did the thread keep going it got necro'd a month later so a few posters could just keep throwing out insults. For supposedly not being as lazy as my generation some people apparently didn't take the five minutes required to read the first 10 responses before posting

 LordofHats wrote:
I think the real irony is that literally everything worth noting about this stupidly insulting question was said on page one, but not only did the thread keep going it got necro'd a month later so a few posters could just keep throwing out insults. For supposedly not being as lazy as my generation some people apparently didn't take the five minutes required to read the first 10 responses before posting

It's not because the older people are lazy, though that might be a contributing factor. See, I think the problem is they're so plugged into their smartphones and their facebook and social media and stuff, and even though someone's already said it, they gotta chime in and say it too, because they're such conceited SPECIAL SNOWFLAKES that they think that their opinion matters more than the last person who said it, so they want to say it again, pages later hopefully after everyone else forgot the original point, to make themselves seem self-important. They think they're entitled to it for some reason.



Oh, I just figured out why: They're not like millennials. Millennials know they're not important or special, because they get reminded of it literally constantly via almost every form of major modern media. Millennials suck and they know it. They're just acting like that at this point to piss everyone else off. The other generations just got coddled into accepting that they're special though, and got pandered to by the media in their generations, obviously.