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40k Champs Question...

How many command points is the strategem that let's Reece roll my dice for me...

You do not want that, lol, I notoriously roll ice cubes, haha

Reece,
Other than Bolt Action are there other Historical games going?

Flames of War and Team Yankee!

Also, had a few more events and packages sell out, please be sure to grab those tickets soon!

Going to be my first time going to lvo. Can't wait.

Hey Reece,

Will there be any additional security checks we should plan for?

Hey attendees - its my first LVO and I am looking for a partner for the 40k doubles event on the Sunday. I picked this event as it would give me time to have a look around and still participate in a laid back event.

I have a ticket already so just looking for someone that will be happy to team up with a random English fellow.

Can do a few different forces, but must admit that I have not played 8th ed yet (need to get some practice in soon) and therefore could be a bit of a liability for someone looking to win it

Silent King I would offer but I am also playing in the Championship Brackett if by some miracle I get to day 3 I wont be able to be your partner
If you are okay with this small risk send me a message.

@Crimson Devil

In regards to the recent event at the country concert? No, I do not believe so.

Well, we're down to the last 12 40k Champs tickets! About to hit 512!

Please grab one if you plan on attending! http://www.lasvegasopen.net/shop/ggm92ans2yamr00q5z9dw5kharxh8e

I was told Judges for the 40k champs will be going around removing unpainted unbased models.
Is that true?
If so, what counts as based? is it fully painted or is texture paint enough.
is painted the 3 color minimum?
Also, will we be required to have Chapter Approve on us? Because my team is thinking of just buying one for the team to use.
3rd, Im going to be wearing a gorilla suit because I lost a bet.

@hotsauceman

Gorilla suits are awesome, although, I wouldn't want to be sweating in one for a game. A dress would do you better.

What was the bet?

I lost the most of my team.

1st day of of SoCal Open, there was a guy in a dress; he said the same thing. He earned the lowest placing of his team at the previous tourney.

TOs- Will/can you include repercussions for players caught cheating (it is what it is ) and/or ignoring the rules?

Can we start seeing it it Tournament Packs delineated specifically?

This is currently preventing me from commiting to national travel and build costs. I personally believe its an issue and find it unacceptable considering the inherent costs of the national circuit.

Its the elephant in the room that never gets addressed.

 Byte wrote:
TOs- Will/can you include repercussions for players caught cheating (it is what it is ) and/or ignoring the rules?

Can we start seeing it it Tournament Packs delineated specifically?

This is currently preventing me from commiting to national travel and build costs. I personally believe its an issue and find it unacceptable considering the inherent costs of the national circuit.

Its the elephant in the room that never gets addressed.

Use:
contact@frontlinegaming.org if you *really* want a response, not dakka.

If players are caught cheating? Like how? If you have an illegal list we typically remove the detachment that is over on points. If you cheat in what other way? loaded dice or something? We boot you from the event. It's pretty simple. Maybe I don't understand your question. Cheating is a broad term but if
fear of encountering it is holding you back it is hardly very common. List errors happen but we come down on that harshly.

@Hotsauce1

Yeah, we will pull unpainted/unbased models off of the table. Painted is 3 colors, based is based. What do you mean? Glue some flock on, or sand. You can even paint them all black if you like for a clean look, as long as every model is based that way.

@Thread

WOW, 40k Champs at LVO hit that 512 player horizon! Crazy to think but there it is.

If you missed out, you can sign up for the wait list by following the link below.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeZQaxQa2WneLjUXfCye-HGc4v50HVlgCvuVARrva7wMOqO0A/viewform?usp=sf_link

Byte wants a public display of consequences of cheating.

I'd imagine something like having a Commissar take the offender to the middle of the hall and shooting them in the head would make him happy.

Lol, well, can't promise that!

I understand that you looking from the "inside out" the view of cheating my seem convoluted.

From the "outside in" I ASSURE its not.

The rules packet should address violations and repercussions. You would know much better than I what a "violation" means. Managing expectations goes a long way in players being able to police themselves. Assume nothing.

Much respect.

 Byte wrote:
I understand that you looking from the "inside out" the view of cheating my seem convoluted.

From the "outside in" I ASSURE its not.

The rules packet should address violations and repercussions. You would know much better than I what a "violation" means. Managing expectations goes a long way in players being able to police themselves. Assume nothing.

Much respect.

I think intent and magnitude are hard to define, so having a set guidelines of "this action leads to this consequence" is a lot harder to implement than having judge make case by case rulings. Illegal lists are easy to nail down regardless of intent, and they've stated their response to illegal lists.

But it's hard to say "anyone who cheats is banished to the pit of misery" when some things are minor and accidental. In a recent event I accidentally played index Ratlings as having a 6" move instead of a 5" move because I was unaware of an FAQ. My book said 6" and thats the only place I looked. Sometimes the judge has to look at that and say that it doesnt deserve the same penalty as someone who played their earthshakers as having d6 damage instead of d3.

Yeah, exactly. It is nothing but shades of grey. I accidentally played with an entire unit that wasn't on my list one time because it was a 1,500pt tournament, I was used to 2,000pts and just without thinking put the unit on the table and played a game of an event with it.

As Jifel pointed out, people play rules wrong all the time on accident. It happens.

Our policy largely is to expect players to police themselves and their own games. We cannot have a judge at every table. It simply isn't possible.

And by violation, with all due respect, no, I seriously don't know what you are referring to. I rarely hear of anyone in the tournament community being overly concerned with cheating, perceived or otherwise. 99% of the time someone breaks a rule it is unintentional in my experience and typically, when both players agree to play it the same way (unintentionally, obviously) that is the way the game was played. You can't go back in time, both players just have to do their best to be diligent and accurate.

Ultimately, this is a massively complex game that human brains are running, so mistakes are inevitable. Overly Draconian policies about making mistakes will kill your own scene. However, in the rare instances of actual malicious cheating (which I have witnessed literally thousands of games of 40k first hand over the years and can count on my hands the number of times I have seen someone actively cheat) is extremely uncommon and if caught, we will boot someone without hesitation.Letting something like that stop you from enjoying the organized play scene is like not driving a car for fear you may get in an accident. Is it a real possibility? Yes, but is it likely? No. And, is driving a car worth the risk? Yes, for most people as you gain a lot for the relatively tiny risk.

I can't speak for anyone else but myself but generally I think people have had a bad taste left in their mouth in the last few years since so many tournaments have been finding list errors after the fact in the winning list.

I agree it is very hard to prove intent, but some measures could be taken to reduce accidents. I think it would be nice if lists were submitted ahead of time and then shared on a website for the public to check. The most argument I have heard against this are usually kind of silly or outliers. I think some players want to surprise the scene but I think thats part of the issue, players are trying to take some extremely niche builds that push the limits and generally this is where the error occurs. The other excuse is trying to meet a deadline, but that should be on the player not the tournament to accommodate their last minute painting

In the absence of this I think at the very least the final 16 or 8 in smaller events should be thoroughly vetted before the final rounds starts and if they have errors they should lose their place. No need to over complicate it just drop them and fill it with the next legal list in line.

If after all those checks something is caught later I think we can all be level headed enough to assume the player was not gambling on sneaking an error through all those checks, even if it's in Vegas. I would however contact the player and suggest the title in name and any points where relevant be removed as a show of good faith.

I don't think the TO should be expected to vet 512 lists though, thats insane and with a few volunteers and a rushed schedule it wouldn't mean much anyway. I think the top bracket would suffice, and hit the lists that mattered, pretty sure if wooden spoon guy intentionally tried to pull shenanigans fate already punished him and it didn't impact the event.

IDK, my 2 cents anyway. Couldn't make it this year but I can't wait to live vicariously thorough my fellow nerds! Hope everyone has a blast at every table, even the craps table

There are websites for checking lists =)

BCP allows you to do this and we have the ITC List Checking FB group. It's just getting the information out there and getting people to use them. We're getting there. The 40k List Building App GW said they were rolling out will be a big help, too.

And yeah, lol, 512 lists with everyone changing lists, people dropping, adding, transferring tickets and what not, no way, lol. That would take weeks and weeks of work and still not be 100% accurate. It's unrealistic and not a viable solution anyway.

When did GW announce the app? That will be very handy!

I think i was one of the last few people who entered. I was just looking into when I needed to submit my list and what format.

Do you need to do this?

Nope.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOoKzw3JSCM&index=16&list=PLodprRMuxP9_4yELT96VQDDKplzQCHKEB

No we don't check the 700+ lists coming in to the LVO for 40k, alone. It isn't realistic.

We will require people to upload their lists to BCP, though, so be prepared for that.

@Primark G

They announced it at NOVA.

Wow, last year I think there were spots open even in early January.

Curiously - I kind of want to go to some seminars, but between the championships and other events, it seems impossible to go to them. Do people go to LVO just for the seminars?

I'd be interested in attending some, but it's just impossible because I'm there to play.