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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/27 12:04:43
Subject: New 40k meta.
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Damsel of the Lady
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Alpha is really just a cover thing. A fair amount of LOS terrain is required for a balanced game. You can tweak the core rules all you want, but that's the effective solution to any alpha 'problem' your meta may be experiencing.
On point: Mobility is king. Getting into and out of range to devastate or hide from your opponent is the single most important feature so far.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/27 12:05:23
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/27 12:20:16
Subject: New 40k meta.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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bullyboy wrote:The game needs a mechanic to cut back on the Alpha Strike, Just something simple....maybe every model counts as moving (although there are so many that ignore that anyway), or maybe just a simple -1 to hit across the board for first player.
Ashas been mentioned many times though, the table needs a lot of LOS blocking terrain. As a player, you should have the ability to use cover and hide some units so they don't get pulverized first turn.
Night fighting used to be a thing but I am not sure it would make a huge difference as the guy going first would likely just tear things up in their turn 2.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/27 12:45:39
Subject: New 40k meta.
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Audustum wrote:Alpha is really just a cover thing. A fair amount of LOS terrain is required for a balanced game. You can tweak the core rules all you want, but that's the effective solution to any alpha 'problem' your meta may be experiencing.
On point: Mobility is king. Getting into and out of range to devastate or hide from your opponent is the single most important feature so far.
The problem is ravens. They can move 45" and split their fire between significant anti-infantry and significant anti-armor. It doesn't have to be spam; 2 of them can delete 2-3 units of infantry and 1-2 vehicles.
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-three orange whips |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/27 14:41:38
Subject: New 40k meta.
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Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought
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They will lose any buffs though correct? So 2 can do some damage....but probably not devastating enough by itself. Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm thinking of other rulesets and how they handle it. I would think count as moving and flyers can only arrive on player 1s second turn, from his table edge. Cuts down on alpha strike, but first players flyers are not sitting ducks either.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/27 14:43:48
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/27 15:44:30
Subject: New 40k meta.
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Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon
Tied and gagged in the back of your car
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bullyboy wrote:The game needs a mechanic to cut back on the Alpha Strike, Just something simple....maybe every model counts as moving (although there are so many that ignore that anyway), or maybe just a simple -1 to hit across the board for first player.
Ashas been mentioned many times though, the table needs a lot of LOS blocking terrain. As a player, you should have the ability to use cover and hide some units so they don't get pulverized first turn.
Yeah, I play a beta strike army, since I have an absurd amount of drops for my point level (12 at 1000 points), but if I steal the initiative, I might as well just shake my opponent's hand and call it a game then and there, because there's usually no way they can win at that point. The IGOUGO method really just ends up emphasizing that no matter what, and is the biggest hamper on GW's game design.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/27 15:45:19
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/27 15:45:19
Subject: New 40k meta.
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Regular Dakkanaut
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bullyboy wrote:The game needs a mechanic to cut back on the Alpha Strike, Just something simple....maybe every model counts as moving (although there are so many that ignore that anyway), or maybe just a simple -1 to hit across the board for first player.
Ashas been mentioned many times though, the table needs a lot of LOS blocking terrain. As a player, you should have the ability to use cover and hide some units so they don't get pulverized first turn.
LoS!
More is better. If you're playing on a barren wasteland youre going to have a bad time.
On my new gaming board my buddy is making be 8" high walls that are modular. (East/West Germany style) I can completely block off sections of the table if we want to. Using a ton of LoS blocking terrain will make your games more entertaining and likely longer.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/27 15:59:01
Subject: New 40k meta.
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Daemonic Dreadnought
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This occurred to me after my previous response. I am not seeing a lot of MSU right now. Is it just me, or did this actually change?
Never really liked MSU as a tactic, but it seems like split fire makes it a lot less advantageous than it was. A larger unit with multiple heavy weapons is more likely to keep them on the table because you choose what models to remove, they are safer in larger squads.
OTOH, I am seeing a lot of big things - Wraithknights, Land Raiders, Leman Russ squads, flyers - with lots of guns. Feels like the points that otherwise would have gone to a lot of smaller squads.
Disclosure: have not played against Nids, Dark Eldar, Sisters or Necrons yet, so might be biased.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/27 16:02:37
Subject: New 40k meta.
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Regular Dakkanaut
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techsoldaten wrote:This occurred to me after my previous response. I am not seeing a lot of MSU right now. Is it just me, or did this actually change?
Never really liked MSU as a tactic, but it seems like split fire makes it a lot less advantageous than it was. A larger unit with multiple heavy weapons is more likely to keep them on the table because you choose what models to remove, they are safer in larger squads.
OTOH, I am seeing a lot of big things - Wraithknights, Land Raiders, Leman Russ squads, flyers - with lots of guns. Feels like the points that otherwise would have gone to a lot of smaller squads.
Disclosure: have not played against Nids, Dark Eldar, Sisters or Necrons yet, so might be biased.
You're not wrong. Take vehicles. You're paying for the base cost, whatever it may be. Theres no major advantage to taking a decent vehicle and not loading it up with weapons. Or a squad of troops and not bringing as many special weapons as you can. I've been seeing a decent mix of vehicles/troops. Which makes for the most entertaining games.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/27 16:44:16
Subject: New 40k meta.
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Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought
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Fafnir wrote: bullyboy wrote:The game needs a mechanic to cut back on the Alpha Strike, Just something simple....maybe every model counts as moving (although there are so many that ignore that anyway), or maybe just a simple -1 to hit across the board for first player.
Ashas been mentioned many times though, the table needs a lot of LOS blocking terrain. As a player, you should have the ability to use cover and hide some units so they don't get pulverized first turn.
Yeah, I play a beta strike army, since I have an absurd amount of drops for my point level (12 at 1000 points), but if I steal the initiative, I might as well just shake my opponent's hand and call it a game then and there, because there's usually no way they can win at that point. The IGOUGO method really just ends up emphasizing that no matter what, and is the biggest hamper on GW's game design.
well, I doubt that is the case unless the other player completely sets up thinking he will never get seized on. There is no way that you auto win vs every army if you go first, no way.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/27 18:28:26
Subject: New 40k meta.
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Regular Dakkanaut
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bullyboy wrote: Fafnir wrote: bullyboy wrote:The game needs a mechanic to cut back on the Alpha Strike, Just something simple....maybe every model counts as moving (although there are so many that ignore that anyway), or maybe just a simple -1 to hit across the board for first player.
Ashas been mentioned many times though, the table needs a lot of LOS blocking terrain. As a player, you should have the ability to use cover and hide some units so they don't get pulverized first turn.
Yeah, I play a beta strike army, since I have an absurd amount of drops for my point level (12 at 1000 points), but if I steal the initiative, I might as well just shake my opponent's hand and call it a game then and there, because there's usually no way they can win at that point. The IGOUGO method really just ends up emphasizing that no matter what, and is the biggest hamper on GW's game design.
well, I doubt that is the case unless the other player completely sets up thinking he will never get seized on. There is no way that you auto win vs every army if you go first, no way.
You'd be surprised. Even with the command point reroll, it's only a 50% chance you don't go first. A lot of the time, those Alpha armies have so few units that it's easy to just focus them down. They've lost so much potency.
You're probably right, it's not an auto-win, but it's probably pretty devastating if squads of Scions with melta and plasma are raining onto your backfield.
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-three orange whips |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/27 18:37:48
Subject: New 40k meta.
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Dakka Veteran
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bullyboy wrote: Fafnir wrote: bullyboy wrote:The game needs a mechanic to cut back on the Alpha Strike, Just something simple....maybe every model counts as moving (although there are so many that ignore that anyway), or maybe just a simple -1 to hit across the board for first player.
Ashas been mentioned many times though, the table needs a lot of LOS blocking terrain. As a player, you should have the ability to use cover and hide some units so they don't get pulverized first turn.
Yeah, I play a beta strike army, since I have an absurd amount of drops for my point level (12 at 1000 points), but if I steal the initiative, I might as well just shake my opponent's hand and call it a game then and there, because there's usually no way they can win at that point. The IGOUGO method really just ends up emphasizing that no matter what, and is the biggest hamper on GW's game design.
well, I doubt that is the case unless the other player completely sets up thinking he will never get seized on. There is no way that you auto win vs every army if you go first, no way.
Its probably not 100% , but its in the realm of an auto win.
That has a to be an issue right?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/27 22:51:26
Subject: New 40k meta.
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Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon
Tied and gagged in the back of your car
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bullyboy wrote: Fafnir wrote: bullyboy wrote:The game needs a mechanic to cut back on the Alpha Strike, Just something simple....maybe every model counts as moving (although there are so many that ignore that anyway), or maybe just a simple -1 to hit across the board for first player.
Ashas been mentioned many times though, the table needs a lot of LOS blocking terrain. As a player, you should have the ability to use cover and hide some units so they don't get pulverized first turn.
Yeah, I play a beta strike army, since I have an absurd amount of drops for my point level (12 at 1000 points), but if I steal the initiative, I might as well just shake my opponent's hand and call it a game then and there, because there's usually no way they can win at that point. The IGOUGO method really just ends up emphasizing that no matter what, and is the biggest hamper on GW's game design.
well, I doubt that is the case unless the other player completely sets up thinking he will never get seized on. There is no way that you auto win vs every army if you go first, no way.
Not 100% (I have lost once when I seized, but that was a big mistake on my part, and was my game to lose at that point), but between a Manticore, two plasma loaded scion command squads, Celestine, and some Imperial Assassins, a stolen first turn is usually enough to tear the core elements of most armies to ribbons.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/27 22:57:24
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