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...I mean, that's what my Inquisition-lead army does.

Yeah, and that's your choice. Do you think that should be forced upon every single Imperium player like SilverAlien suggests?

some people like running a pure faction force, one that has a real identity behind it other then "Imperial Grab bag" I don't mind factions that have never had that not being expanded on etc (I mean I'd love to see Custodes get an HQ and be a viable single army all of themselves but if it doesn't happen no matter) Sisters of Battle? Grey Knights? Death watch? they're their own unique force and deserve some support. Grey Knights and Death Watch are fine, for now, I'm sure if I was of a mind I could think of some stuff they could use (I'd like to see pallies get a seperate box with some new options for them, storm sheilds or something maybe) death watch has all sorts of options from the FFG RPG that could be slid in.

but sisters? sisters need a complete line revamp.

 Melissia wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
If say SoB and grey knights had some HQs and abilities that could cross over and provide each other buffs

Why are you complaining about conscripts in 9 billion threads if you can take conscripts yourself?

What, don't you want to take units from a completely different faction in order to make your army better?

If you think Manticores are better than Whirlwinds, why not take Manticores? And you can put some conscripts in front of them to make them even better! It's a win-win! Hell, the same could apply to your AdMech! Just take some conscripts and use them to coat your shooty units to protect you from assault! You can even paint them the same colors as your AdMech, for extra fun!

After all, they're both Imperium so what's stopping you? Just shove it all in. What, doesn't that sound great to you?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

I mean, if you are going to say admech was all basically one army.... well the same could be said that all are branches of the Inquisition, unified under one larger organisation. They are all the militant arms of their respective ordo. They are jsut different subsets of the same faction, like scions are still part of the larger IG army.

It's worth pointing out that the Inquisitional ordos are not a formally or strictly enforced separation of schools. It's more a congregation of Inquisitors with similar interests, and not at all meant to be restrictive. An Inquisitor's school should be a reflection of the tools and focus that goes into constructing them and their forces, not a harsh restriction on those options.

To that extent, having all the chambers militant sharing a book would make it easier to build around that ethos.

SilverAlien wrote:
I mean, if you are going to say admech was all basically one army.... well the same could be said that all are branches of the Inquisition, unified under one larger organisation. They are all the militant arms of their respective ordo. They are jsut different subsets of the same faction, like scions are still part of the larger IG army.

Okay, so let's merge AdMech with Imperium. After all, they're all the same to you.

Instead of getting fun new AdMech stuff, let's just have GW say "what do you mean we're not giving you anything new, we gave you Primaris Marines, go buy those". What, don't you want to stuff your AdMech full of Primaris Marines? Hey, Cawl made them, after all, so why not? Go on, do it.

 Fafnir wrote:
It's worth pointing out that the Inquisitional ordos are not a formally or strictly enforced separation of schools. It's more a congregation of Inquisitors with similar interests, and not at all meant to be restrictive. An Inquisitor's school should be a reflection of the tools and focus that goes into constructing them and their forces, not a harsh restriction on those options.

To that extent, having all the chambers militant sharing a book would make it easier to build around that ethos.

So do that with the Inquisition codex-- explicitly say they can take certain choices from each army as you wish, instead of screwing over those armies by stuffing them all in one book where none of them will get anything new. And yes, you know as well as I do that if GW stuffs every army it can in to an "imperial agents" book we won't get anything, AGAIN, JUST LIKE WE HAVEN'T FOR THE PAST FETHING TWENTY YEARS.

Seriously, even Inquisition has gotten more new stuff than Sisters have. Imperial Agents was a massive disappointment, a fething wreck of a book, and I don't want a repeat of that.

Allies in the fluff or not, Sisters of Battle have a pretty defined, unique aesthetic that doesn't really work as an auxiliary to another army. I doubt anyone who signed up for Bolter Bitches is going to be happy if they were suddenly obligated to take a bunch of Grey Knights units that don't fit under that aesthetic. It's a very different situation than Mechanicum/Skitarii where frankly the only reason there were people who only wanted to play Skitarii is because some of the Cult models are really ugly.

 Melissia wrote:
Okay, so let's merge AdMech with Imperium. After all, they're all the same to you.

Instead of getting fun new AdMech stuff, let's just have GW say "what do you mean we're not giving you anything new, we gave you Primaris Marines, go buy those". What, don't you want to stuff your AdMech full of Primaris Marines? Hey, Cawl made them, after all, so why not? Go on, do it.

Again, you seem to be comparing apples to oranges. The inquisition is a subset of the imperium, just like the admech. The units in the inquisition are all, to a degree, thematically linked. Particularly ordo malleus/hereticus, xenos/deatwatch don't jive as well I admit. But the point is, they are a thematically and lore linked organization with different subsets. Letting them be merged and work together would be nice for those who do want to mix. Similar to how a lot of adeptus ministorum stuff already works with SoB as well as IG.

I get that you don't want to run your army like that. Which is fine. You'd still be able to run SoB by themselves, or adeptus ministorum as a whole if you prefer. I can still run cult mechanicus on it's own and mostly can skitarii if I use the cult mechanicus HQ. But, for those who want to run them together, the option is now there.

 Melissia wrote:
So do that with the Inquisition codex-- explicitly say they can take certain choices from each army as you wish, instead of screwing over those armies by stuffing them all in one book where none of them will get anything new. And yes, you know as well as I do that if GW stuffs every army it can in to an "imperial agents" book we won't get anything, AGAIN, JUST LIKE WE HAVEN'T FOR THE PAST FETHING TWENTY YEARS.

I disagree, merging them has the advantage of creating a larger player base for them as a whole. If suddenly grey knights players find themselves wanting some SoB and adeptus ministorum units in their army, that increases model sales. The more people are buying an army and the greater the overall demand is, the better the chance additional support will be provided.

This is why I'm comparatively worried about the new stand alone CSM subcodices. I think such armies will struggle to develop a player base large enough to justify continued expansions and will fade away.

Arachnofiend wrote:
Allies in the fluff or not, Sisters of Battle have a pretty defined, unique aesthetic that doesn't really work as an auxiliary to another army. I doubt anyone who signed up for Bolter Bitches is going to be happy if they were suddenly obligated to take a bunch of Grey Knights units that don't fit under that aesthetic. It's a very different situation than Mechanicum/Skitarii where frankly the only reason there were people who only wanted to play Skitarii is because some of the Cult models are really ugly.

Again, obligated to and have the option to are different things. When the witch hunter codices was around, you weren't obligated to take stormtroopers, they were merely an option.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:
Yeah, and that's your choice. Do you think that should be forced upon every single Imperium player like SilverAlien suggests?

I'm not entirely clear on how you are suddenly being forced to take different units. It's literally just expanding options and making a thematically appropriate choice work better for those interested. Everyone else can keep doing what they were doing....

SilverAlien wrote:
Again, you seem to be comparing apples to oranges.

Since you can't tell the difference between Space Marines and Sisters of Battle, it's rather amusing that you're trying to accuse me of comparing apples to oranges. In fact, there's more of a difference between Space Marines and Sisters of Battle than there are between the two different types of AdMech forces; the latter fall under the same Adeptus Mechanicus label, while the only way the former fall under the same title is if they're under the generalist Imperium or Inquisition labels, which, again, AdMech could be conscripted in to as well.

So hey why not shove AdMech in to Inqusition, too? Give them nothing new, but at least they get access to Inquisitors and Battle Sisters now! Isn't that oh so exciting? And it even fits in the lore! After all, it's very very common for an Inquisitor to have AdMech assisting them, even having a high ranking Magos and their teams of servitors and skitarii going along with them. So let's do that. Screw giving AdMech anything new, if you want something new you can take some Grey Knights!

More on topic, trying to force GK, SoB, and DW all in to one book will inevitably lead to nothing but disappointment, because there's no way they would do that and also add new things for each of those factions to use. Which is the point here-- the thread title is "what factions would people like to see get fleshed out", and you know what my answer is? Sisters of Battle. I want them to be more fleshed out, not crammed in a cramped book where they get nothing new. AGAIN.

Because if they're shoved in, YET A FETHING GAIN, an "Imperial Agents" or "Inquisition" book, they will NOT be fleshed out. You can argue "well, they COULD" but that's irrelevant; every single time GW has done this, they weren't. And the "new GW" isn't any different here-- again, I point to Imperial Agents, which gave us jack diddly and squat, and in fact actually took Celestine away from us and gave her to the Imperium as a whole. After all, she didn't exist in Imperial Agents, I should note, she only existed in the Triuumvirate box.

So no. That is not acceptable. Give Sisters their own book. Same with AdMech, and Inquisition, and Grey Knights, and Deathwatch. Flesh each and every one of them out, instead of neglecting them as you want to happen. Give Inquisition back their stormtroopers; give Deathwatch some more quirky options; give Grey Knights something new to take, give AdMech some awesome robots. And give Sisters new units and vehicles. We've waited this fething long. We fething deserve it.

 Melissia wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
Again, you seem to be comparing apples to oranges.

Since you can't tell the difference between Space Marines and Sisters of Battle, it's rather amusing that you're trying to accuse me of comparing apples to oranges. In fact, there's more of a difference between Space Marines and Sisters of Battle than there are between the two different types of AdMech forces; the latter fall under the same Adeptus Mechanicus label, while the only way the former fall under the same title is if they're under the generalist Imperium or Inquisition labels, which, again, AdMech could be conscripted in to as well.

So hey why not shove AdMech in to Inqusition, too? Give them nothing new, but at least they get access to Inquisitors and Battle Sisters now! Isn't that oh so exciting?

More on topic, trying to force GK, SoB, and DW all in to one book will inevitably lead to nothing but disappointment, because there's no way they would do that and also add new things for each of those factions to use. Which is the point here-- the thread title is "what factions would people like to see get fleshed out", and you know what my answer is? Sisters of Battle. I want them to be more fleshed out, not crammed in a cramped book where they get nothing new. AGAIN.

Because if they're shoved in, YET A FETHING GAIN, an "Imperial Agents" or "Inquisition" book, they will NOT be fleshed out. You can argue "well, they COULD" but that's irrelevant; every single time GW has done this, they weren't.

So no. That is not acceptable.

Okay, and some people want inquisition to be fleshed out by incorporating all the chambers militant into the inquisition proper army list, and giving them synergy to function like a unified army. Also, again, all three are canonically part of the inquisition. Not conscripted by, literally called the chambers militant. I'm not sure if you dislike that bit of lore or what, but it isn't something we just came up with out of nowhere.

This is a wishlisting thread about expanding factions, I don't really get why we can't just imagine a world with both a unified inquisitorial army and new units for each of the chambers militant? Without yelling and getting angry at one another, or telling someone they are wrong for wanting something you don't? It's not like it's going to happen, the grey knight codex is literally announced to be the next one coming, it's just something some of us think would be a cool way to expand the inquisition.

SilverAlien wrote:
Okay, and some people want inquisition to be fleshed out by incorporating all the chambers militant into the inquisition proper army list, and giving them synergy to function like a unified army. Also, again, all three are canonically part of the inquisition. Not conscripted by, literally called the chambers militant. I'm not sure if you dislike that bit of lore or what, but it isn't something we just came up with out of nowhere.

The "chambers militant" is nowhere near as limiting as you claim it is. Sisters of Battle have no agreement that says they must serve the Inquisition over their own interests. The Inquisition's interests and the Sisters' interests usually align, but not always-- because Sisters are a hardline purist organization that seeks to defend the Imperium's people against all threats. And sometimes that threat is the Inquisition itself.

In fact, it's within Codex: Witch Hunters itself that the tone was set where Sisters are not beholden to the Inquisition, but merely working with them out of common interests. Their primary "employer" (such as they have one) has long been, from as early as 2nd and all the way up to the current index, fairly consistently been stated not to be the Inquisition but actually the Adeptus Ministorum (in Rogue Trader, Sisters were actually a force that policed the Astartes and destroyed renegade or mutated chapters, but that's only somewhat the case these days).

Along with this, I remind you, there's no reason you have to force Sisters in to the Inquisition book in order to let Inquisition take Sisters as a chamber militant. Simply say "An <Inquisition> force may take <Adepta Sororitas> units and characters." or something like it in the Inquisition book. Tags are fun like that. No need to shove Inquisition down everyone else's throats in order to let Inquisition take them.

SilverAlien wrote:
This is a wishlisting thread about expanding factions, I don't really get why we can't just imagine a world with both a unified inquisitorial army and new units for each of the chambers militant?

Because every time we've had a combined Inquisition it's been a miserable failure, both in the "new" GW and the "old" GW.

And your wishes would only lead to yet another failure exactly like it.

It's also worth noting that GW has spent the past several editions moving AWAY from the whole chamber millitant thing, sisters, death watch and GKs in their last codexes all had their status as independant orginizations that worked with the Inqusition, but there not subservant TO the inqusition, stressed

 Melissia wrote:
I'd rather have more books period, than less. Especially if they're able to develop them in unison and release them in rapid succession like they're doing right now.

You must have really enjoyed 7th ed

7th eds problems had nothing to do with the number of books. Also? Sisters didn't get anything new in 7th, so...

 Melissia wrote:
7th eds problems had nothing to do with the number of books. Also? Sisters didn't get anything new in 7th, so...

One of 7th ed's problems was indeed the number of books.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
7th eds problems had nothing to do with the number of books. Also? Sisters didn't get anything new in 7th, so...

One of 7th ed's problems was indeed the number of books.

Well, maybe if you want to say "because there still wasn't enough".

Yes, because that's really what I want to say rather then the idea that I played CSM and had to check through near 5+ books in order to actually play the army I want.

Or more to specifically say. No, no I don't.

I don't mind codex's, but everything should be consolidated.

 Gamgee wrote:
Next year will likely be a big xenos year if rumors are to be believed.

It had better be.

They're getting most of the marine armies out of the way this year, on top of introducing a new one.

Four. Marine. Codicies. In. A. Row. And there will still be 3 marine codicies to go come january.

It's stupid.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
I don't mind codex's, but everything should be consolidated.

Honestly, no they shouldn't. I'd rather have more than less. Because feth having less. I've been forced to sit around and have less for two fething decades. I'll gladly fething take more even if it means I have to buy multiple books.

 Melissia wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
I don't mind codex's, but everything should be consolidated.

Honestly, no they shouldn't. I'd rather have more than less. Because feth having less. I've been forced to sit around and have less for two fething decades. I'll gladly fething take more even if it means I have to buy multiple books.

If someone has to flip through nine books to find all the information they need to play their army, that's a hell of their making.

It's not my problem. I'll take my individual army codex, thanks.

Black Templars. It was a serious missed opportunity for us to not get a Holy Hand Grenade relic, "named" character (Draco) missing, and the combat crazy dreadnaught...now Sword Brethren are basically Wolf Guard with less options...I'm glad they still exist, but I'd like to get my missing items back. I know I can make Draco easily and call my melts-bombs HHG's, but it would be cool for them to really get these goodies instead of counts-as.

Marines and all their power armour wearing chums have had enough GW love. I'm thinking it's time for, well anything else really, something xenosy would be refreshing.

Kroot please.

SilverAlien wrote:Okay, and some people want inquisition to be fleshed out by incorporating all the chambers militant into the inquisition proper army list, and giving them synergy to function like a unified army. Also, again, all three are canonically part of the inquisition. Not conscripted by, literally called the chambers militant. I'm not sure if you dislike that bit of lore or what, but it isn't something we just came up with out of nowhere.

The chambers militant are not the in-house military arm of the Inquisition's Ordos. They are not funded, stabled, or directly commanded by inquisitors in an official capacity. It signifies an alignment of purpose that means the Ordo recognizes them as the best option when available. Even the Deathwatch is technically independent, and the Sororitas are the least closely aligned with the Inquisition, as they nominally represent the militant arm of a completely separate organization in the Imperium. Of the three chambers, the Sisters are the faction most in lined towards independent action for that same reason.

An Inquisition force would nominally be represented by inquisitors, the varied inquisitorial agent types including crusaders, assassins, customizable acolytes, etc. Anything beyond that should be drawn from other books, not because I miss 7th edition, but because that's how inquisitors do business.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:Yes, because that's really what I want to say rather then the idea that I played CSM and had to check through near 5+ books in order to actually play the army I want.

Keep in mind that Sisters during most of this period had a digital codex only, and that every release they've had for the past few editions has consisted of little more than a short list models they were no longer allowed to take.

They're in dire need of attention.

I'd like to see the Primarus get fleshed out a lot more. I love the models and the way each unit is a specialized unit, dedicated to a specific role.

 Arandmoor wrote:
Yes, "Everything that isn't Space Marines" is a valid answer.

Good, because that's what mine is.

Everything that isn't Space Marines or Chaos Space Marines.

For existing armies, I'd like to see attention for my own, obviously. I'd like not to be "Imperial Agents", or at least if we are to be, I'd like the Grey Knights and Deathwatch to join us and we can go back to being Witch Hunters and Daemon Hunters [and Xenos Hunters, for the Deathwatch].

For armies that don't exist, I think that Traitor Guard/Traitor Civillians needs a showing. Really, Chaos Space Marines are a tiny part of the overall forces of Chaos, or else they'd have been flattened already. The real might of the forces of the archenemy are the cult rebellions and treasonous Guard units.

Well, lost and damned were one of the most rapidly squatted armies to ever exist, and FW has R&H now. So I'd be shocked if we ever got some non demon/CSM chaos support from gw.

For necrons there are two factions I think could be felshed out more:

Destroyer cults: Nihilist evil robots, bent on destroying all life who have given up pretending they are mortals/humanoids. You could really let your imagination go wild with the various configuration of cultist, they could bring back some necron models like the old wraiths, or entirely new models like gigantic necrons similar to dreadnoughts or knights, or necrons that have converted their bodies into fighter aircraft, or insectoid forms. Some examples:



The praetorians: Another faction of necrons, devoted to the triarch and the silent king. They would function like an elite version of the necrons similar to custodes in the imperium. wielding the best weapons and equipment available to the necrons. They could stat out Szarekh and the head of his guard.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Everything that isn't Space Marines or Chaos Space Marines.

For existing armies, I'd like to see attention for my own, obviously. I'd like not to be "Imperial Agents", or at least if we are to be, I'd like the Grey Knights and Deathwatch to join us and we can go back to being Witch Hunters and Daemon Hunters [and Xenos Hunters, for the Deathwatch].

For armies that don't exist, I think that Traitor Guard/Traitor Civillians needs a showing. Really, Chaos Space Marines are a tiny part of the overall forces of Chaos, or else they'd have been flattened already. The real might of the forces of the archenemy are the cult rebellions and treasonous Guard units.

Oh god. Traitor Guard...

I want Traitor Guard. That is, Imperial Guard that have turned against the Imperium either because of outside Xenos influences (T'au/Necron) or Chaos (Heretic Guard). So, Guard with Xenos Tech and Xenos influences. What happens to Human forces on Tau sept worlds after 100 years of co-habitation? What happens when the humans are exposed to people who actually understand their technology and don't view it with religious reverence? What happens when the humans involved try to actually understand how their technology works?

What about Guard forces that have been enslaved by Necron blood scarabs and now oversee huge slave populations working to clear millions of years of detritus to reveal the tomb world beneath? Now that Necrons want more than to just "harvest" everything, and actually see themselves as rulers after a fashion, how to they incorporate these lesser beings into their dynasties?

I want Chaos Guard. Not Heretic Guard. Not Imperium-born guard tainted by chaos.

Chaos World-born Planetary Defense Forces. I want ing beastmen. Beastmen in the vein of Imperial Guard. More expensive per model, but more capable, individually, as well.

I want more cross-over armies. The imperium keyword is attached to far more units than any xenos army has access to, and that gap needs to be narrowed. A good way to do this is to give Xenos armies ways to cross over with each other. Even, in some cases, with elements of the imperium.

Tyranids already have the genestealer cults, but what about Tyranized Orks? Orks are spore-born. They're fungal. Logic dictates that they should be heavily impacted by the tyranization process. They should be heavily mutated by that process, and should be able to adapt as the tyranization spores naturally inject tyranid DNA into the plants they affect. Well, with Orks being Orks, this should not necessarily end well for the tyranids. Especially with the cannon pushing the idea that the Orks already have a kind of communal psychic ability, the idea that they could, with enough numbers, Waaaaaaagh! even when under the sway of the hive mind isn't out of the question. Imagine a horde of tyranized orks climbing up a capillary tower and hyjacking a hive ship. This is just the kind of crazy bull the orks were invented for!

Similar things go for Necrons and the Machine Cult. On the one side you have humans who worship machines. On the other...you have Necrons. Combine that with the story of the Dragon being on mars (from back in 4th ed), and having renegade ad mech who work with the necron army is not out of the question. It has never been out of the question. In fact, this one is more of a "well duh" thing.

Then there's the T'au. Flesh out the Kroot. It's been done before, and the idea of a "mercenary" codex has been thrown around DakkaDakka in the past. A catch-all codex for everything unrepresented, un-developed, and just otherwise too-cool-to-pass-up but otherwise without an army of its own would be fantastic. Toss the Kroot in there until there's enough of them to work with to make them their own faction (if it ever came to that).

Hell, cross T'au with Necrons! There's no reason one of the weaker dynasties wouldn't possibly secretly ally themselves with the t'au if it meant being able to fight off another hostile dynasty.

I've already given an idea in another thread for a way to flesh out the Necrons that doesn't involve making Dynasty Codexes (because I don't think they necessarily need them). But to re-iterate it here:

Codex: Necron Dynasties - Healthy Necron Dynasties. Some Destroyer/Flayer virus infection, but nothing overwhelming. Few Canoptek units.

Codex: Empire of Rust - Declining Necron Dynasties overtaken by viral/personality engram degradation. Not many sane Necrons left in these tomb worlds. Lots of Flayed ones and destroyers. Few Canoptek units.

Codex: Canoptek - Dead Necron Tomb World force. Canoptek units have entered a kind of "death spiral" where they constantly work to expand their automated forces to collect materials to rebuild and repair a tomb that is already in perfect working order because the Necrons housed inside cannot ever awaken due to engram degradation. Complete Canoptek force. Closer in feel to the original, non-Egyptian/Tomb Kings in SPAAAAAACE! necron canon. Just an army of automatons doing what they do with no way to be negotiated or reasoned with. Also can be fully integrated into other Necron forces. Would essentially be an expansion codex.