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 Brutus_Apex wrote:
No new models, so I'm pretty much uninterested.

Honestly GW, can you just redo the fething chaos line already?

I'm sure they'll get around to it, but they need to give AoS some room to breathe, too.

I'm not trying to doom-say here, but I can see the following happening:

-General lessening of generic Chaos Space Marines (oh and get ready to lose any option which isn't on a specific model - just like the Space Marine codex)
-Bigger concentration on the four Gods and their independent factions
-Maybe a big Chaos re-launch after all that (i.e. a few years from now?)

It's a bit irrelevant to me, because I'm one of the few who prefers barely-Chaos Chaos. My entire Chaos Space Marine force is just rusted/beaten up slightly gloomy looking MkIII's with conversions etc. Even my plague marines are tame by the outrageous nature of the GW ones. Sadly that means almost zero Chaos release will ever matter to me, so I'll continue just custom building stuff.

 Elbows wrote:


-General lessening of generic Chaos Space Marines (oh and get ready to lose any option which isn't on a specific model - just like the Space Marine codex)

Well, we're hosed then. At least 70% of our kits don't include all their current options.

If you zoom there is a Night Lords Stratagem called In Midnight Clad shown on one of these pages and a World Eaters Stratagem on the same photo

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/White-Dwarf-August-2017-ENG

It looks like for one CP when a unit targets a NL unit, all hit rolls against that unit in that phase suffer a -1 penalty to hit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That WE strategum allows berserkers to attack a third time in combat. Talk about overkill.

The Votlw strategum allows for +1 to wounds.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
It looks like for one CP when a unit targets a NL unit, all hit rolls against that unit in that phase suffer a -1 penalty to hit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That WE strategum allows berserkers to attack a third time in combat. Talk about overkill.

The Votlw strategum allows for +1 to wounds.

Mother of god, 6 - 9 attack berserkers this is insanity lol

That veterans of the long war startegem seems really good +1 to wound makes, massed sonic blaster fire really dangerous.

A third attack phase is great and all, but I would have preferred some sort of charge range mitigation. That said, if the strategium can be used on any WE unit, not just zerkers, holy cow. Look out for the blood slaughterers!

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
A third attack phase is great and all, but I would have preferred some sort of charge range mitigation. That said, if the strategium can be used on any WE unit, not just zerkers, holy cow. Look out for the blood slaughterers!

Is it me or is the fact that berserkers can now wound anything that isn't a warlord titan on a 4+ with veterans of the long war seem terrifying ?

With 48 attacks from a five man unit, heh. Or 9 powerfist attacks with the champ. Double heh.

There won't be bigger Chaos Marines. When the Imperium wins and closes the Warp - chaos will go away and be squatted.

Chaos will be demons only so they can make them bigger without the need to "forge the narrative" with Chaos Marines.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
With 48 attacks from a five man unit, heh. Or 9 powerfist attacks with the champ. Double heh.

"Everything goes according to plan. Skulls for the Skull God!"

I hope veterans of the long war works for shooting and not just close combat, and the other legions get abilities as cool as the world eaters one.

I find it funny that a lowly zerker champ can solo a knight in one turn.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
A third attack phase is great and all, but I would have preferred some sort of charge range mitigation. That said, if the strategium can be used on any WE unit, not just zerkers, holy cow. Look out for the blood slaughterers!

Very likely infantry, bikes, and dreads only. Though that one sounds like berzerkers only since it says "for a third time". Their chapter tactic is still unknown.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
I find it funny that a lowly zerker champ can solo a knight in one turn.

If you manage that please send me the winning lottery numbers as well.

I doubt it's Berzerkers only, but if it isn't than yeah Blood Slaughterers are going to be nuts. Hell, my Khyribdis will love that!

I'm glad to see so many share my opinion of liking Gal Virbak style CSM over the current ones.

 SolidOakie wrote:
I'm glad to see so many share my opinion of liking Gal Virbak style CSM over the current ones.

I can't speak for others but my appreciation of the Gal Vorbak is strictly as the best representation to date of the extreme subset that is possessed marines but not as an exemplar of what the majority of chaos marines should be like. YMMV.

 SolidOakie wrote:
I'm glad to see so many share my opinion of liking Gal Virbak style CSM over the current ones.

To be honest the CSM range is a sad, sorry and confused looking mess. It's biggest problem is that nothing meshes well with anything else.

I feel there's far too many different aesthetics and they seem to come about depending on which sculptor had which whim at which time.

You have Ornate Pre-Heresy style (seen on the Thousand Sons mainly but also on the Raptors) - older armour marks with trims and a bit of a baroque feel.
You have MUTATION EVERYWHERE (Dark Vengeance Chosen and Lord, Helbrutes, Obliterators and Mutilators) - not too bad but terrible if mixed in with other things.
You have COMEDY MUTATION (Possessed, DI Plague Marines with their random tentacles and fleshy blobs, Dinobot Daemon Engines) - awful. Just awful.
You have Standard Imperial With Trims (Current CSM kit, Terminators, Havocs, Rhinos, Predators, Land Raiders) - relic design philosophy of 2nd and 3rd ed where most things were just sculpted over the existing SM Tacticals.

If we could just have one unified aesthetic I'd be content. But instead we have 3-4 different design directions and anything new could be any one of those.

My personal preferences?

Ornate Pre-Heresy would be fantastic for CSM. It'd fit their lore, distinguish the Traitor Legions from the Renegades.
The Mutation Everywhere approach could work but only if the entire army takes that approach - otherwise it's jarring.

The other design directions? Well, we don't have a Puke Orkmoticon....

Comedy Mutation is terrible. I hate it. It's jarring, it makes things look more like Saturday morning cartoons than actual horrors from the Warp. Compare the possessed to the Gal Vorbak...or compare them to the Dark Vengeance Chosen. They're terrible. Cartoony and fugly to boot. Nothing is horrifying about them. They're almost as bad as the metal Possessed from late 4th edition/early 5th edition (Medusa V campagin) with their terrible dancing poses and the random Tim Curry Lord of Darkness champion.

And the Standard Imperial With Trims was fine when they started out. But now it isn't. It's lazy. And it shows. We have a core troops choice that is based on another army's core troops choice from 5 editions ago. That other army has had that choice get one sprue recut and one complete update. We had a sprue recut to add in an Icon holding arm, a variant chainsword and bolt pistol and a few different heads that are pretty much still the same.

I'd not mind a mutation heavy approuch to the kits, but at the same time I'd like to see them do a MK V heresy era kit as well. then you could mix and match between the chaos kit, the MK III, IV AND V kits to create the right look

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I hope the renegade rules will make it possible to bring Raptors, Bikes, Chosen and Dark Apostle with Mark of Nurgle back to my DG List.
Also it says:
"...the Dark Hereticus discipline with its 3 powers specific to the Marks of Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh."

Does that mean you'll get the 3 powers from the index and depending on the mark +3 from you god? Also, does it mean for undivided no additional powers?

Death guard are getting their own book. Only way you'll get these will be to run standard chaos army with mark of nurgle. Death guard should never have had bikes, raptors anyway

 Motograter wrote:
Death guard should never have had bikes, raptors anyway

Now let me just say....rulewise, was it terrible? Sure.

But before you quote the 3.5 Mark restrictions at me as an attempt to justify that...

Try to remember World Eaters couldn't take Havocs - but now they can take anything so long as it has the Khorne keyword and isn't a psyker.

Death Guard probably can make a case for Raptors with the recent 30k stuff - Destroyers being a specialised chem-warfare jump pack unit.

I actually really like the Dark Imperium Death Guard models... It's a level of grossness that I would prescribe only to the Death Guard, not to any of the other legions. Part of the reason I think Thousand Sons and Death Guard are being separated is that they're both so distinctly different from everything else CSM, in two opposite directions.

Hoping that there is a new Abbadon model

There won't be a new Abaddon model with this book

I love the look of the Dark Vengeance Chosen, but since they can no longer be run as either chosen och CSM troops (have to switch bolter for chainsword), I'm not sure what to do with them..

I would love new troops that look like them though. And I've said that in similar threads for years (on here and warseer).

Sooo lazy using the same cover as the old codex...which I believe was the cover of "Blood Gorgons"...super crap, so lazy. Can anyone tell me what the "Faces of the Hydra" text says please? It's too blurry for me to read on my phone and laptop...thanks in advance.

It does blow me away somewhat that Abaddon, the big bad final boss of the setting, hasn't had a new model in twenty years.

It makes no sense at all.

Warhams-77 wrote:
There won't be a new Abaddon model with this book

Yep. Most I've heard from local store owners and managers is that CSM is going to be one of those minimal releases - Codex, maybe some upgrade sprues (ala Deathwatch/DA/SW/BA/Ultras) but not a lot else.

And apparently pre-order next week (05/08) - the conflicting date of the 22nd on Itunes is off because that's a Tuesday.

 Lotus Corgi wrote:
Sooo lazy using the same cover as the old codex

It's so awesome though. It's the best CSM artwork I've ever seen

This looks like a codex to skip. To say I'm disappointed would be an understatement. They can crap out psychic disciplines and strategems for grey knights but not for chaos space marines? Yeah, cheers