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Your Legion rules are... simply weaker than GWs.

To all the Word Bearer's players out there: this is just the Legion Trait. Let's wait and see what relics, psychic powers and stratagems you get before wailing too much.

The Black Legion legion trait sounds cool but let's be clear: it's a buff for bolters, autoguns and plasma guns. It gets you slightly closer to the enemy at the cost of assault. These guns are rapid fire 1, so becoming assault 1 does not increase the number of shots.

Noise Marines already have assault weapons that do this better and cost less than plasma. Not sure I would want to trade a squad of them for CSMs / chosen / havocs, which would be putting out fewer shots. Volume of fire appears to matter most in this edition.

The +1 leadership speaks to the importance of morale. TBH, rerolling failed morale checks might be more useful over the course of a game (even though that's still not saying much.)

First off, I like most of what I have seen. Slightly underpowered vs space marines is where you want the codex to be so power creep doesnt mess the whole edition up and leave us behind. Second, the fact we have legion tactics at all amazes me. 3rd, if you have a better idea pass it to their facebook page. Post it and maybe they will see the likes and errata it. That being said, yes some of those are terrible. Find a way to represent your legion and or warband for the meanwhile. Use the units detachments and what you got instead of focusing on what you dont have. I personally do not mind running my word bearers with those rules.

You only need to think that in fact the chaos codex was written first. In that case, IF copied the rule of IW and RG the one of AL. Fixed, now the boring ones are the Space marines.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Your Legion rules are... simply weaker than GWs.

Yeah, sorry, not very good.
Non-linear rules don't fit this edition (ex: NL)
Unit-specific buffs pigeonhole play-style (ex: IW, WB)
The claim for originality doesn't go very far when you copy from earlier C:CSM (ex: EC)

In an earlier edition, the WB rule would have been better, but it's been a long time since summonable daemons were part of codex CSM, and it's just unreasonable for it to be the army's only buff to have it interact with another book.

Night Lords.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/02/legion-focus-night-lords-aug-2gw-homepage-post-2/











World Eaters tomorrow!

EC legion trait are actually a copy as well, they where copied from slaanesh daemons instead though.

Edit: I've never seen the nightlord model at the front of that army picture the one with two power swords is that a new model or a conversion ?

Am I missing something? The NL Haunter's Curse seems a bit weak? Salamanders get to re-roll a failed hit and wound PER UNIT. NL get to once per battle round...

Because the salamander one is their chapter tactic and this one is the warlord trait.

"Models in enemy units must subtract 1 from their Leadership characteristic for each unit with this trait that is within 6" of theirs (to a maximum of -3)."

"...Three units of Raptors equipped with Icons of Despair can knock enemy leadership down by 5 whole points.".

So from this it sounds like the Raptor's Fearsome Visage ability might be changing to a negative Ld modifier that doesn't stack.

They miscalculated. A Lord + Diabolic Strength + Claws should be at S7, no?

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
"Models in enemy units must subtract 1 from their Leadership characteristic for each unit with this trait that is within 6" of theirs (to a maximum of -3)."

"...Three units of Raptors equipped with Icons of Despair can knock enemy leadership down by 5 whole points.".

So from this it sounds like the Raptor's Fearsome Visage ability might be changing to a negative Ld modifier that doesn't stack.

Raptors already don't stack, you can't stack the same buff/debuff ability more than once unless the buff/debuff says it can be done. Different named abilities can stack however so spawn, icon of despair and raptors's auras stack.

"Night Lords Chaos Lords with Jump Packs are going to number among the deadliest combatants in the 41st Millennium. Take yours with the Claws of the Black Hunt, Night Haunter’s Curse and Diabolic Strength from a nearby Sorcerer and your lord will be dishing out six Strength 6 Attacks, each doing D3 Damage at AP -3 with rerolls to wound. With a reroll to a failed charge, this is a great assassin unit for killing key characters such as Primaris Apothecaries."

Hmm, given that the Claws of the Black Hunt give +1S and +1A, and Diabolic Strength gives +2S and +1A, it's actually 7 S7 hits. I've done the maths, and have concluded that that's better than the 6 S6 hits that they suggested.

Midnight Clad seems pretty good-- thought it was just the single unit shooting. An army-wide penalty against the unit is pretty strong for tanking.

 Rydria wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
"Models in enemy units must subtract 1 from their Leadership characteristic for each unit with this trait that is within 6" of theirs (to a maximum of -3)."

"...Three units of Raptors equipped with Icons of Despair can knock enemy leadership down by 5 whole points.".

So from this it sounds like the Raptor's Fearsome Visage ability might be changing to a negative Ld modifier that doesn't stack.

Raptors already don't stack, you can't stack the same buff/debuff ability more than once unless the buff/debuff says it can be done. Different named abilities can stack however so spawn, icon of despair and raptors's auras stack.

Huh, didn't realise that before (but it hadn't come up in any of the games I've played so thankfully I haven't been playing that wrong).

Still seems to maybe be 'changing' from +1 to enemy Morale Tests to -1 Ld, even if aside from a few edge cases the difference is meaningless.

EDIT: Actually could you provide a page reference to this 'same abilities don't stack' rule? I can't find it and I'd like to know where it is if it comes up in any of our games in the future.

 Rydria wrote:
EC legion trait are actually a copy as well, they where copied from slaanesh daemons instead though.

Edit: I've never seen the nightlord model at the front of that army picture the one with two power swords is that a new model or a conversion ?

Should be a conversion. Possessed legs, Chaos Marine torso, Grey Knight falchions, some Chaos Warrior helmet plus assorted bits I reckon without checking.

TonyH122 wrote:
"Night Lords Chaos Lords with Jump Packs are going to number among the deadliest combatants in the 41st Millennium. Take yours with the Claws of the Black Hunt, Night Haunter’s Curse and Diabolic Strength from a nearby Sorcerer and your lord will be dishing out six Strength 6 Attacks, each doing D3 Damage at AP -3 with rerolls to wound. With a reroll to a failed charge, this is a great assassin unit for killing key characters such as Primaris Apothecaries."

Hmm, given that the Claws of the Black Hunt give +1S and +1A, and Diabolic Strength gives +2S and +1A, it's actually 7 S7 hits. I've done the maths, and have concluded that that's better than the 6 S6 hits that they suggested.

Will Night Lords sorcerers still have access to Warp Time? This CL would be even more vicious if it could assault from deep strike.

They updated the article to S7.

 Rydria wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
"Models in enemy units must subtract 1 from their Leadership characteristic for each unit with this trait that is within 6" of theirs (to a maximum of -3)."

"...Three units of Raptors equipped with Icons of Despair can knock enemy leadership down by 5 whole points.".

So from this it sounds like the Raptor's Fearsome Visage ability might be changing to a negative Ld modifier that doesn't stack.

Raptors already don't stack, you can't stack the same buff/debuff ability more than once unless the buff/debuff says it can be done. Different named abilities can stack however so spawn, icon of despair and raptors's auras stack.

Now the biggest remaining question is how are the Leadership modifiers applied to Leadership in Morale Test, specifically how they interact with the Re-roll on failed test. Example would be ATSKNF.

Re-roll rule (p. 178) states:
".. re-rolls happen before modifiers (if any) are applied."

Morale Test however is [1D6 + Casualties - Leadership = Result].
IMO all these rules modifying leadership are leadership modifiers, and they should be applied only after condition for re-roll is checked in ATSKNF rule.
If it works like this, then the NL Legion Trait is very powerful, against Space Marines atleast. And can work wonderfully against AM if one manages to snipe the Commissar somehow, single jump pack Chaos Lord might be the best way to do this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

EDIT: Actually could you provide a page reference to this 'same abilities don't stack' rule? I can't find it and I'd like to know where it is if it comes up in any of our games in the future.

Aura rule: BRB p. 179.
Aura stacking: BRB FAQ Official update version 1.1, p. 3 bottom right.

Ghorgul wrote:
Aura rule: BRB p. 179.
Aura stacking: BRB FAQ Official update version 1.1, p. 3 bottom right.

This doesn't appear to apply. Raptors "add 1 to the Morale tests of any enemy units within 1" of this unit". The FAQ is talking about abilities which are templated like: "[do something] to [targets] within [distance] of any [my_name]". You'll note that they specifically errata'd the Ravenwing Darkshroud so that instead of being templated like the Raptors' ability, its ability now uses the "within 6" of any Darkshroud" templating.

I'm guessing they changed the wording on the raptors rules, otherwise it would stack even with the FAQ.

Ghorgul wrote:

Now the biggest remaining question is how are the Leadership modifiers applied to Leadership in Morale Test, specifically how they interact with the Re-roll on failed test. Example would be ATSKNF.

Re-roll rule (p. 178) states:
".. re-rolls happen before modifiers (if any) are applied."

Morale Test however is [1D6 + Casualties - Leadership = Result].
IMO all these rules modifying leadership are leadership modifiers, and they should be applied only after condition for re-roll is checked in ATSKNF rule.
If it works like this, then the NL Legion Trait is very powerful, against Space Marines atleast. And can work wonderfully against AM if one manages to snipe the Commissar somehow, single jump pack Chaos Lord might be the best way to do this.

I'm going to have to disagree with this, on the basis that this isn't a modifier to the roll but to the characteristic, this is no different than a powerfist modifying a model's strength. As supporting evidence I would like to submit the Nurgle psychic power Gift of contagion, this power modifies the profile of the target unit. You are right that modifiers apply after re-rolls, but I would submit that this goes for modifiers to rolls, not characteristic modifiers. Also, page 175 of the BRB speaks of characteristic modifiers, which seem to be quite different from roll modifiers.

This isn't YMDC, please stop disappointing my desire for new info with rules discussion...

Chaos Stratagem and legion traits
Stratagem:
From Within, From Without,
Scion of Sorcery,
Excess of Violence(?)
Dark Pact (World Bearer)

Legion Traits:
Black Legion: Black Crusaders
Night Lords: Terror Tactics
Emperors Children: Flawless Perfection
World Bearers: Profane Zeal
Aplha Legion: Hidden in Plain Sight
Renegade Chapters: Dark Raiders
World Eaters: Buthcers Nails

PrimarisBA wrote:
[url=https://www.brokendicegods.com/single-post/2017/08/02/Grey-Knights-New-Chapter-specific-Primaris-Marines-Codex-Heretic-Astartes-Traits-and-StatagemChaos Stratagem and Traits
]Chaos Stratagem and legion traits[/url]
Stratagem:
From Within, From Without,
Scion of Sorcery,
Excess of Violence(?)
Dark Pact (World Bearer)

Legion Traits:
Black Legion: Black Crusaders
Night Lords: Terror Tactics
Emperors Children: Flawless Perfection
World Bearers: Profane Zeal
Aplha Legion: Hidden in Plain Sight
Renegade Chapters: Dark Raiders
World Eaters: Buthcers Nails

Let's fix that for you.

https://www.brokendicegods.com/single-post/2017/08/02/Grey-Knights-New-Chapter-specific-Primaris-Marines-Codex-Heretic-Astartes-Traits-and-Statagem

It appears that alpha legion is a copy of raven guard. It's obviously an amazing tactic.

woops only for 1 model.

S9 Daemon prince with 8A with talons with Diabolic Strength.

Diabolic Strength only works on a singular model, so you want it on either a squad sergeant or a character.

That being said, putting it on a daemon prince is really good.

CSMs get something called "despoilers of the galaxy" safe bet it's basicly the same as "Defenders of humanity"

I'm achually liking the similarities. Loving the fluffyness of the rules but also how they are looking balanced.

Will of course not "pass judgement" on it all till i've seen the chaos & GK codex's play a few games. Had a game vs SM (Death guard here). I Loved how the SM's played with the new dex' I honestly cannot wait for the other Codex's