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Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:
Surprising that they don't do Alpha Legion tomorrow, although it is next on their list. And they kept to the list until now...

Alpha legion trickery.

Interesting that they didn't mention marks at all so far. I know they said on FB they wouldn't modify the statline anymore, but they have to do something, right?

Marks are just keywords, I wouldn't expect them to do anything on their own. It makes more sense this way tbh, icons can grant buffs and you can even have multiple icons per god if they wanted. Having marks be a buff rather than a keyword isn't really needed.

Man, if Mortarion is really as mediocre as a GUO, i'll be so disappointed. I would LOVE to see Chaos get something on-par with Guilliman, if only to prove GW isn't only felating SM players.

As it stands, if they make him a super-melee Magnus, then he'll feel redundant, as Scabeiathrax is already essentially Nurgle-Knight in CC guy.

GUO's are mediocre because they don't have a beautifull and nice model like the Lords of Change and Bloodthirsters.
GW puts stats based in the model. When GUO receive a new and bigger model they'll reveice more wounds and more powerfull rules.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Man, if Mortarion is really as mediocre as a GUO, i'll be so disappointed. I would LOVE to see Chaos get something on-par with Guilliman, if only to prove GW isn't only felating SM players.

As it stands, if they make him a super-melee Magnus, then he'll feel redundant, as Scabeiathrax is already essentially Nurgle-Knight in CC guy.

Well is magnus mediocre LOC?

 Desubot wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Man, if Mortarion is really as mediocre as a GUO, i'll be so disappointed. I would LOVE to see Chaos get something on-par with Guilliman, if only to prove GW isn't only felating SM players.

As it stands, if they make him a super-melee Magnus, then he'll feel redundant, as Scabeiathrax is already essentially Nurgle-Knight in CC guy.

Well is magnus mediocre LOC?

But that isn't a 1:1 comparison, since it would be more like comparing Magnus to the FW named LoC, who IS incredible (and better than Magnus, albeit for 150pts more)

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I'm assuming no points leaks have been posted? I'm interested to see if Plague Marines have changed in point costs, as they said Plague Marines and Rubrics will be in the book, and also their new options.

I must have missed that note. That means DG players will be able to use the new entry with all the options for our PMs once C:CSM drops, right? Even tho we don't have our new models yet, new rules might help give PMs a shot in the arm that they desperately need. Altho, does that mean we could end up with a third iteration of the PM dataslate when CG ships in September (fourth if you count the DI slate and then the Index entry, even more when you factor in the other starter boxes)? That could get confusing.

 Galas wrote:
GUO's are mediocre because they don't have a beautifull and nice model like the Lords of Change and Bloodthirsters.
GW puts stats based in the model. When GUO receive a new and bigger model they'll reveice more wounds and more powerfull rules.

GUO are mediocre because they have to walk everywhere. It has nothing to do with the terribly over-designed and rubbish oversized models passing for LOCs and BTs.

Voss wrote:

 Galas wrote:
GUO's are mediocre because they don't have a beautifull and nice model like the Lords of Change and Bloodthirsters.
GW puts stats based in the model. When GUO receive a new and bigger model they'll reveice more wounds and more powerfull rules.

GUO are mediocre because they have to walk everywhere. It has nothing to do with the terribly over-designed and rubbish oversized models passing for LOCs and BTs.

And you're saying wings would make them good? No, No it would not.

Has nothing to do with models either. Glotkin is basically a GUO, and in the one nurgle picture.

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I'm assuming no points leaks have been posted? I'm interested to see if Plague Marines have changed in point costs, as they said Plague Marines and Rubrics will be in the book, and also their new options.

I must have missed that note. That means DG players will be able to use the new entry with all the options for our PMs once C:CSM drops, right? Even tho we don't have our new models yet, new rules might help give PMs a shot in the arm that they desperately need. Altho, does that mean we could end up with a third iteration of the PM dataslate when CG ships in September (fourth if you count the DI slate and then the Index entry, even more when you factor in the other starter boxes)? That could get confusing.

No actually, you can't run DG plague marines using the CSM book. We are stuck with the index till our codex drops.

They'll probably FAQ that like w/ variant chapters being allowed vanilla units from C: SM for the moment.

SilverAlien wrote:

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I'm assuming no points leaks have been posted? I'm interested to see if Plague Marines have changed in point costs, as they said Plague Marines and Rubrics will be in the book, and also their new options.

I must have missed that note. That means DG players will be able to use the new entry with all the options for our PMs once C:CSM drops, right? Even tho we don't have our new models yet, new rules might help give PMs a shot in the arm that they desperately need. Altho, does that mean we could end up with a third iteration of the PM dataslate when CG ships in September (fourth if you count the DI slate and then the Index entry, even more when you factor in the other starter boxes)? That could get confusing.

No actually, you can't run DG plague marines using the CSM book. We are stuck with the index till our codex drops.

Yeah, we probably won't be able to use the entry from the CSM codex for the PM, but I know GW said they'd be in there as elites, as an answer on the Facebook page to someone in the comments below the Emperor's Children legion rules.

"Hi Jack - Cult Marines are still in the codex. Plague Marines serve (albeit in limited numbers) in warbands across the Galaxy, while many an enterprising Thousand Sons Sorcerer will lend his strength to a Chaos Warband. The Black Legion in particular has loads of them."

I don't mind if I don't get to use them, I'm just keen to see any changes and/or additions, as they'll be pretty much what we'll be getting in our full codex.

Sooo..... what are the chances I can have CSM with Bolter, Bolt Pistol and Chainsword again?

 Insectum7 wrote:
Sooo..... what are the chances I can have CSM with Bolter, Bolt Pistol and Chainsword again?

It's definitely possible. Space Wolf Grey Hunters have the option to get all three.

 warboss wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Sooo..... what are the chances I can have CSM with Bolter, Bolt Pistol and Chainsword again?

It's definitely possible. Space Wolf Grey Hunters have the option to get all three.

I really hope they give chaos that option back. it annoys me that they've been so... schitzo with it but have been consistant with grey hunters

Be happy they don't have to roll a D3 to see what equipment they have... Because chaos!

 Kirasu wrote:
Be happy they don't have to roll a D3 to see what equipment they have... Because chaos!

... honestly, I kinda like what they did with the obliterator.

str00dles1 wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Galas wrote:
GUO's are mediocre because they don't have a beautifull and nice model like the Lords of Change and Bloodthirsters.
GW puts stats based in the model. When GUO receive a new and bigger model they'll reveice more wounds and more powerfull rules.

GUO are mediocre because they have to walk everywhere. It has nothing to do with the terribly over-designed and rubbish oversized models passing for LOCs and BTs.

And you're saying wings would make them good? No, No it would not.

Has nothing to do with models either. Glotkin is basically a GUO, and in the one nurgle picture.

It has everything to do with the model. It's not coincidence that the two greater daemons with new kits happen to have better stat lines, even the physically weakest having a better one.

I'd imagine that they didn't feel right giving a great unclean one a bigger stats line for wounds etc. Than a lord of change when it barely reaches its waist.

Hot dang, that Black Legion Trait just makes me want to run a two Spearhead detachments with a crap ton of 4x Plasma (Combi-Plasma on Champion if they can) in Rhinos and spam Plasma shots at everything. Take a couple squads of bog standard Chaos Marines for holding objectives and just go to town.

I don't play Chaos, but depending on how the Black Legion look I may get rid of my Tallarn for them.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Hot dang, that Black Legion Trait just makes me want to run a two Spearhead detachments with a crap ton of 4x Plasma (Combi-Plasma on Champion if they can) in Rhinos and spam Plasma shots at everything. Take a couple squads of bog standard Chaos Marines for holding objectives and just go to town.

I don't play Chaos, but depending on how the Black Legion look I may get rid of my Tallarn for them.

I foresee a lot of exploding chaos

BrianDavion wrote:

... honestly, I kinda like what they did with the obliterator.

The effect is unique, yes. It appears somewhat chaotic, yes. Why it isn't d3 shots on top of it, who knows.
I just hate it, because obliterators are not shooting random demonic vomit but deliberately chosen weapons befitting the intended victim. And why such a huge blobb of metal still runs at T4 is a mystery.

Maybe I missed something, but the Black Legion trait is pure trash in my point of view. Which are the possible applications? An assault plasmagun wont be able to duplicate the shots, and you still get the-1 to hit

 DarklyDreaming wrote:
Maybe I missed something, but the Black Legion trait is pure trash in my point of view. Which are the possible applications? An assault plasmagun wont be able to duplicate the shots, and you still get the-1 to hit

It's hardly trash. It's flexibility. Even if you have to advance, you're still able to shoot at a certain extent, when others wouldn't be able to. I'd say it's pretty awesome

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Hot dang, that Black Legion Trait just makes me want to run a two Spearhead detachments with a crap ton of 4x Plasma (Combi-Plasma on Champion if they can) in Rhinos and spam Plasma shots at everything. Take a couple squads of bog standard Chaos Marines for holding objectives and just go to town.

I don't play Chaos, but depending on how the Black Legion look I may get rid of my Tallarn for them.

I foresee a lot of exploding chaos

Probably, but you do not have to use the overcharged shots. And I would recommend not to, if you are getting -1 to hit.

 Astmeister wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Hot dang, that Black Legion Trait just makes me want to run a two Spearhead detachments with a crap ton of 4x Plasma (Combi-Plasma on Champion if they can) in Rhinos and spam Plasma shots at everything. Take a couple squads of bog standard Chaos Marines for holding objectives and just go to town.

I don't play Chaos, but depending on how the Black Legion look I may get rid of my Tallarn for them.

I foresee a lot of exploding chaos

Probably, but you do not have to use the overcharged shots. And I would recommend not to, if you are getting -1 to hit.

True, I'm used to fighting Primaris now so I overcharge for days haha

Black Legion trait is weird. You get to convert your rapid fire to assault but you only get the base single shot at 24". It's a niche ability that'll give you one more round of shooting if you want to advance your foot-slogging infantry turn one. That's pretty much it. From turn 2 you're mostly gonna be in rapid fire or charge range so you won't need this ability any more. Though cultists could run around being gnats plinking at infantry with their BB guns. It's hardly a strong trait though. I'd like to see it expanded to allow for the double tap at half range. It's siomply worded wrong. The way it's worded it has to be single shot only, but if they worded it "rapid fire *counts as* assault" then you could still get your double tap and advance move. But since when has GW been able to wor rules correctly?

What's this about Alpha Legion? I don't do FB. Have they abandoned the AL reveal today? I've been waiting for this all week....

Demantiae wrote:


What's this about Alpha Legion? I don't do FB. Have they abandoned the AL reveal today? I've been waiting for this all week....

Me too. They seem to have delayed it for unknown reasons. It was next on the list, but now they changed it. No idea why.

I'm not saying that the Black Legion's trait is not that impressive, particularly compared to a lot of other legions. But we have to consider the chapter trait as part of a constellation of bonuses, including stratagems, relics, and, most importantly for Black Legion, unit accessibility.

So it seems to me entirely reasonable that Black Legion has a less impressive legion trait, given that it has access to a greater variety of troops, and, because of that, a greater variety of stratagems. I'm not saying that that will save them, but I wouldn't necessary catastrophise too much yet.

But it's not the most impressive trait.

TonyH122 wrote:
I'm not saying that the Black Legion's trait is not that impressive, particularly compared to a lot of other legions. But we have to consider the chapter trait as part of a constellation of bonuses, including stratagems, relics, and, most importantly for Black Legion, unit accessibility.

So it seems to me entirely reasonable that Black Legion has a less impressive legion trait, given that it has access to a greater variety of troops, and, because of that, a greater variety of stratagems. I'm not saying that that will save them, but I wouldn't necessary catastrophise too much yet.

But it's not the most impressive trait.

I think appart from the Cult Legions (WE, EC, TS, DG), all the other Legions will have access to all troops. You can play Alpha Legion Noise Marines or Night Lords Berzerkers without a problem. So this is not really something the BL will have specifically going for them.
On the other hand it is much more fluffy for BL than for the other Legions.

 godardc wrote:
So, how many attack does a squad of 8 zerkers has ?
+1 for chainsword
+1 for assaulting this turn
And they fight 3 times ?

They fight twice. If you spend 3 command points, ONE unit can fight a third time at the end of the fight phase.

For the command point cost, depending what other stratagems may be of value in the codex, its lack luster to me.

I'm not really sure what is going to survive after two rounds of attacking already that Morale won't take care of for you at the end of it. Just seems very situational.

 Marius Xerxes wrote:

 godardc wrote:


For the command point cost, depending what other stratagems may be of value in the codex, its lack luster to me.

I'm not really sure what is going to survive after two rounds of attacking already that Morale won't take care of for you at the end of it. Just seems very situational.

Unless of course it ends up winning the game. It is an option. Its expensive cp wise but could be used to really turn the tide, killing enemy warlord and retinue as well as wiing out unit that was with them defending an objective. 2 rounds of attacking may not kill the toughest opponents, this gives you the opportunity to really lay the smack down if needed.