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 buddha wrote:
Just bumping again for anyone who either has a book or knows if legions like EC and World Eaters can still bring noise Marines and berserkers as troops respectively? Thanks!

I also wish to know this.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 buddha wrote:
Just bumping again for anyone who either has a book or knows if legions like EC and World Eaters can still bring noise Marines and berserkers as troops respectively? Thanks!

I also wish to know this.

I've read the army list and rules again and again and find no mention of this at all.

Puscifer wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 buddha wrote:
Just bumping again for anyone who either has a book or knows if legions like EC and World Eaters can still bring noise Marines and berserkers as troops respectively? Thanks!

I also wish to know this.

I've read the army list and rules again and again and find no mention of this at all.

Much to my fears but thank you. I can still bring a vanguard detachment of course but it then makes it harder to get CP.

I got confirmation from the guy who did the first video review. Cults are now Elites only. Their Legion does not change their unit type. Which makes sense I guess GW wants to make all units viable. So CSM will be getting used now?

 Sersi wrote:
I got confirmation from the guy who did the first video review. Cults are now Elites only. Their Legion does not change their unit type. Which makes sense I guess GW wants to make all units viable. So CSM will be getting used now?

I want to find out if this is intentional (maybe the cult codeces will allow cult troops again so they didn't think to put it in the CSM codex), gonna try to ask on Facebook if this was an oversight.

 Sersi wrote:
I got confirmation from the guy who did the first video review. Cults are now Elites only. Their Legion does not change their unit type. Which makes sense I guess GW wants to make all units viable. So CSM will be getting used now?

Maybe? Only having two options for obj secured would kinda give them a role. It's annoying in the extreme, but I suppose with noise marines at 15 it'd be hard to resist running an EC battalion plus whatever else.

Do we know if cultists gain the legion keyword in their detachment? I have a feeling 3 minimum sized cultists squads to get the battalion will be quite common.

 Sersi wrote:
I got confirmation from the guy who did the first video review. Cults are now Elites only. Their Legion does not change their unit type. Which makes sense I guess GW wants to make all units viable. So CSM will be getting used now?

Does this extend to Death Guard and Thousand Sons? I'm still not entirely sure how much or how little information that is in this book is relevant to my armies...

 buddha wrote:
Do we know if cultists gain the legion keyword in their detachment? I have a feeling 3 minimum sized cultists squads to get the battalion will be quite common.

I can't imagine anybody deciding that the extra 120 points for 3 Cultists isn't worth an extra 3 Command Points.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I'm not happy that they cut out a lot of the Chapter Warlord Traits and Relics.

The Raven Guard had 6 traits and 6 relics in Kauyon 7e....now they have 1 of each.

As Codex Blessed they do now get a relic for free rather than having to spend pts on it.

I don't want a free relic, I want a wider variety of Raven Guard Relics.

Specifically in my various army lists, I used to use the Claws relic, jump pack relic, storm bolter relic, stalker boltgun relic, artificer armour relic, and the Raven Skull relic. (Not all at the same time of course).

Now I just have access to a handful of generic Relics, and one Raven Guard Relic.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I'm not happy that they cut out a lot of the Chapter Warlord Traits and Relics.

The Raven Guard had 6 traits and 6 relics in Kauyon 7e....now they have 1 of each.

As Codex Blessed they do now get a relic for free rather than having to spend pts on it.

I don't want a free relic, I want a wider variety of Raven Guard Relics.

Specifically in my various army lists, I used to use the Claws relic, jump pack relic, storm bolter relic, stalker boltgun relic, artificer armour relic, and the Raven Skull relic. (Not all at the same time of course).

Now I just have access to a handful of generic Relics, and one Raven Guard Relic.

Everyone only gets one.

(unique one anyway)

Space Marines have gone from having the entire cake to having just one slice of the cake. Not feeling too sympathetic about it.

I think the cult troops being elites only is definitely aimed at separating players. It's quite clear the Death Guard will feature Plague Marines as troop choices, etc. So I think they're trying to encourage players to eventually pick up the cult specific books (I'd imagine we get Khorne and/or Slaanesh within 18-24 months).

 Elbows wrote:
I think the cult troops being elites only is definitely aimed at separating players. It's quite clear the Death Guard will feature Plague Marines as troop choices, etc. So I think they're trying to encourage players to eventually pick up the cult specific books (I'd imagine we get Khorne and/or Slaanesh within 18-24 months).

It just makes me sad that this is most likely true.

Arachnofiend wrote:
Space Marines have gone from having the entire cake to having just one slice of the cake. Not feeling too sympathetic about it.

Thats a bit spiteful isn't it?

Instead of wanting your faction to get its own "cake" too, you want to take the cake away from Space Marine players?

Like I said earlier...lowest common denominator.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Arachnofiend wrote:
Space Marines have gone from having the entire cake to having just one slice of the cake. Not feeling too sympathetic about it.

Thats a bit spiteful isn't it?

Instead of wanting your own faction to get its own "cake" too, you want to take the cake away from Space Marine players?

Like I said earlier...lowest common denominator.

Isn't that what leads to power creep?

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Arachnofiend wrote:
Space Marines have gone from having the entire cake to having just one slice of the cake. Not feeling too sympathetic about it.

Thats a bit spiteful isn't it?

Instead of wanting your own faction to get its own "cake" too, you want to take the cake away from Space Marine players?

Like I said earlier...lowest common denominator.

Isn't that what leads to power creep?

No. Badly written rules and under costed units and wargear is what leads to power creep.

Adding variety and options to the game for players who want more flavour and theme in their armies is not power creep.

 buddha wrote:
Do we know if cultists gain the legion keyword in their detachment? I have a feeling 3 minimum sized cultists squads to get the battalion will be quite common.

Cultists get the Legion keyword in the index, can't imagine why they would drop it in the Codex.

The one thing thing I noticed that would be challenging is for summoned Daemons. The profiles listed in the video did not include a Legion keyword. Does this mean a summoned unit could suddenly break your detachment and cause you to lose legion traits or battle forged status? AFAIK every unit has to fit into a detachment.

The other thing I noticed is with summoning, anything with the Daemon keyword can be summoned. Does this mean we could summon the new 2 wound possessed onto the table? If so, that would actually be amazing, summon Possessed to keep them from having to walk up the table.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Specifically in my various army lists, I used to use the Claws relic, jump pack relic, storm bolter relic, stalker boltgun relic, artificer armour relic, and the Raven Skull relic. (Not all at the same time of course).

Now I just have access to a handful of generic Relics, and one Raven Guard Relic.

To be clear, again, what you are asking for would necessitate more than FIFTY new relics in the space marine book, with the expectation that going forward each codex would have near that amount? Is that a good idea to you?

Who says it has to be in the new Codex? GW could have issued an Errata PDF to update the Warlord Traits, Relics and Stratagems for the Raven Guard, White Scars, Imperial Fists etc from the various 7e campaign books and supplements.

Or they could have re-released that content for 8e via White Dwarf.

Why are people discussing loyalist stuff in the CSM thread?

Frankly, I couldn't give a gak how many relics Raven Guard have got right now, despite having a couple thousand points sat in boxes, but if I did, I'd not look into the CSM Codex release news thread to discuss it.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Why are people discussing loyalist stuff in the CSM thread?

Frankly, I couldn't give a gak how many relics Raven Guard have got right now, despite having a couple thousand points sat in boxes, but if I did, I'd not look into the CSM Codex release news thread to discuss it.

You beat me to that one Azrael. Meantime, since WE and EC are in this codex, does that mean they're just not getting their own books? It seems strange that only 2 of the aligned legions would get books. I was seriously hoping for a WE codex when I heard that DG were getting one.

 Battlesong wrote:
You beat me to that one Azrael. Meantime, since WE and EC are in this codex, does that mean they're just not getting their own books? It seems strange that only 2 of the aligned legions would get books. I was seriously hoping for a WE codex when I heard that DG were getting one.

I think the logic is:
- Thousand Sons already got a codex and whole range of models, so they are going to have to get their own Codex again
- Death Guard are going to be in the starter set, and will be the first new chaos range in 8e, so they need a Codex also
- Emperor's Children do not have models which are anywhere near new. They will not start out with their own codex, and won't get one until they have the model release to go with it.
- World Eaters do not have models which are anywhere near new. Khorne got the Daemonkin book which as far as I can tell was paired with 0 new models (Kharn maybe happened at this time? But no unit boxes,) and was generally hated/not well received/why does this exist. Chaos/Khorne also maybe got the "Crimson Slaughter" book which as far as I can tell also everyone hated. They won't start out with their own codex, and won't get one until they have the model release to go with it.

 Battlesong wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Why are people discussing loyalist stuff in the CSM thread?

Frankly, I couldn't give a gak how many relics Raven Guard have got right now, despite having a couple thousand points sat in boxes, but if I did, I'd not look into the CSM Codex release news thread to discuss it.

You beat me to that one Azrael. Meantime, since WE and EC are in this codex, does that mean they're just not getting their own books? It seems strange that only 2 of the aligned legions would get books. I was seriously hoping for a WE codex when I heard that DG were getting one.

For the time being, that seems to be the case. They might get something in the future, but I'd suspect they will churn through most of the 'existing armies' first. If they break them out at all- they've languished so long without models despite their popularity, which makes me dubious.

 Elbows wrote:
I think the cult troops being elites only is definitely aimed at separating players. It's quite clear the Death Guard will feature Plague Marines as troop choices, etc. So I think they're trying to encourage players to eventually pick up the cult specific books (I'd imagine we get Khorne and/or Slaanesh within 18-24 months).

Reece and Frankie are saying Cult units can still be taken as troops if everyone in the detachment is from the same cult.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
I think the cult troops being elites only is definitely aimed at separating players. It's quite clear the Death Guard will feature Plague Marines as troop choices, etc. So I think they're trying to encourage players to eventually pick up the cult specific books (I'd imagine we get Khorne and/or Slaanesh within 18-24 months).

Reece and Frankie are saying Cult units can still be taken as troops if everyone in the detachment is from the same cult.

Who and who? Also, a link to where they said this?

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
I think the cult troops being elites only is definitely aimed at separating players. It's quite clear the Death Guard will feature Plague Marines as troop choices, etc. So I think they're trying to encourage players to eventually pick up the cult specific books (I'd imagine we get Khorne and/or Slaanesh within 18-24 months).

Reece and Frankie are saying Cult units can still be taken as troops if everyone in the detachment is from the same cult.

Who and who? Also, a link to where they said this?

Frontline Gaming.

 warboss wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, its +1 to armor save when in cover.
I don't know why people keep thinking its a hit modifier. It's clearly stated in the rules for cover that it gives a bonus to armor.

Because it would make more sense to have it a hit modifier since cover blocking a shot or a stealth system hiding your position successfully means you're not actually hit... not that your actual armor is suddenly more effective at absorbing bullets.

Your conflating cover and concealment. Cover stops bullets, just like armor. Concealment makes you more difficult to see and as a result harder to hit, but not harder to hurt when you do get.

 Ghaz wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
I think the cult troops being elites only is definitely aimed at separating players. It's quite clear the Death Guard will feature Plague Marines as troop choices, etc. So I think they're trying to encourage players to eventually pick up the cult specific books (I'd imagine we get Khorne and/or Slaanesh within 18-24 months).

Reece and Frankie are saying Cult units can still be taken as troops if everyone in the detachment is from the same cult.

Who and who? Also, a link to where they said this?

Frontline Gaming.

They said in on their podcast today.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2017/08/07/signals-from-the-frontline-553-chaos-space-marines-and-grey-knights-codexes-up-for-pre-order/

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2017/08/06/chaos-space-marines-8th-ed-codex-overview/