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vaurapung wrote:
I guess all my games are those one offs then.

Another thing for me to be judged on. My army list never stay the same. I run a slightly different army every game because of how my last game went.

After this whole thread im getting the notion that that is the i dont know how to play my units. I never stick with the same combination or strategy because it lost its last game.

You're making this WAY harder for yourself. It's not just finding the right list, it's about learning how to use it.

You need at least 10, preferably more like 20 games against different armies and opponents to a) properly learn how to use the list and b) properly evaluate it.

Take some of the advice in this thread, put together a new list and then stick with it for a while.


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vaurapung wrote:
Gw states 1 or 2 pieces of terrain for every 2 sqft and even goes on to say that boards with too little or too much can make games one sided. But i havent found any tutorial on how to properly set terrain up to go over with my freinds

I would hope that you don't need a tutorial to make it apparent that if you put all of your LoS blocking terrain a few inches from the table edge then it's not going to be blocking very much.

As to hundreds of dollars per table for terrain, it can be done much cheaper than that. Some insulation foam, PVA and paint to make rocky hills or ruins is fast and easy.

Firstly thank you all for listening to me vent and still willing to give me advice to help my gaming, a lot of my venting here does help keep me from venting at the table which makes the game better for me and everyone i play with.

The last thing that i would like to cover on this thread is game length. The other games that day i only got through two turns in each before timing out at 2+ hours while the game with the ig player was finished in less than 2 hours.

Is there any advice on how to speed gameplay up or will there always be certain matchups that just cant finish a game in time.

Learning the rules aside because we didnt have any big issues with rules that day i still feel that games are harder to finish in a time limit this edition.

Are you serious? 8ed is like twice as fast as 7ed ever was. You shouldn't have trouble finishing games in 8th if you were fine in 7th

You need to get used to the flow of the game. It's actually quite fast when people know what they're doing.

So things that take time.

Moving units

Rolling attacks, to hit then to wound then damage

determining saves, and if you get them then rolling saves.

Well thats really all i can think of that takes up time in a game.

In my longer games i notice that my opponent has to refernce the book for every dice roll like it might have changed since the last turn.

With one opponent i play in particular the amount of premeasuring to make sure his units are in the perfect position is almost abhorring when time is essential.

Is there any way that i can help these games along without playing their game for them. Or just let it be, a 2 turn game is to my advantage.

What are peoples opinion on speed clocks like used by chess players..? Ive kinda always wanted to start that but our host isnt sure about it.

Chess clocks is difficult in 40K because the opponent has to do stuff during your turn.


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vaurapung wrote:
So things that take time.
Moving units
Rolling attacks, to hit then to wound then damage
determining saves, and if you get them then rolling saves.

So pretty much just playing the game? It gets faster with practice.

This point of a new edition is especially hard on people that have been through many edition changes as we have to keep referencing the rules to make sure that we're remembering the correct version.

I have a great memory, I remember stats after reading them one time mostly. I find myself just giving out the stats to my opponent from my memory unless they are new and I want them to look it up to be sure of themselves.

As far as a chess clock goes, warmachine/hordes uses this mechanic in tournaments and it works and I like it. The problem is that there would have to be 90-120 minutes on each player clock in a normal tournament size 40k game (50-60min for a tournament warmachine/hordes game) and its far easier to just say that each round is 3-4 hours. That being said, when the opponent rolls overwatch, you would flip over to their clock time and they would flip it back upon resolution.

The major differences with the clock thing, is that in WM/H, there is a hit roll and a damage roll, but no saves; so on any given turn, much of the time the clock remains on the active players time. There would be quite a bit more back and forth in a 40k tournament structure with a chess clock.

edited to say: just play more games. You will get faster by virtue of having more experience and not second-guessing yourself as much. Slow people will tend to always be slow as they premeasure every permutation of possible moves (when only one seems to be relevant anyway); this is true for WM/H as well as some people premeasure their entire turn before moving a single model.

That table does not look TOO bad, its just the LOS blocking terrain is in the wrong place. Every table should have 3-4 large LOS blockers with the largest in the middle of the board to prevent a shooting gallery. Players should have to move to get angles and there should not be direct lines of fire from one edge to the other.

In general, units have combinations of durability, firepower, and movement. The best units have all three, (Stormravens, for example), but most tick off two of those boxes. Consider not just the firepower of a unit, but how you plan on getting it into range to use it.

Wave Serpents are GOOD, and not because of the damage the deal. Put Vectored Engines on them for a -1 to hit when you advance and turn one you advance to take the middle board and try and hide behind LOS terrain. They have durability and movement. Wraith units and Fire Dragons are murder machines against armor, but they need to get there first. That is what Wave Serpents do. They tank wounds like crazy with the shield. Even more so if you put Spirit Stones on them.

Try running, 5-6 of them with Guardians, Fire Dragons, and a unit of D-scythe Wraiths (save a command point for when you roll D3 number of hits and the inevitable "1" comes up). Just give it a spin and see what you think.

Now, what you are missing after all that is long range punch. Dark Reapers are the most efficient, but look over the weapons you have that are at or over 36" with some punch to consider your options.

Then, you need to be buffing units, a cheap Autarch allows you to re-roll ones, or a Farseer on a bike to cast powers. Doom is one of the best powers in the game. Shuriken Cannons wounding armor on 5s become much more scary when you are re-rolling.

Finally, and this may be hard to hear depending on how dedicated you are to CWE, but Ynnari are a LOT better. Soulburst is just too good an ability to pass up. Free activations is borderline broken. The minute you get a unit of Wraithguard or Fire Dragons hitting his lines, the carnage will be glorious. One tank dies within 7", shoot again, there goes another one, and if you have more than one unit in range you can soul burst that other unit. Yvrainne is really good for her points and you will need her to make your list Ynnari.

Always look for modifiers, maximize your durability, and present as many threats as possible so your opponent has to make tough choices.

I wasnt thinking 3-4 hours per game would be necessary. The last club i used to go to ran their 7th edition tournaments with 2hr games per round which worked well i thought.

I dont think it would be so bad if we werent trting to pack 3 games into one saturday starting at about 2-3pm.