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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/04/legion-focus-black-legion-aug4gw-homepage-post-2/

Legion Trait: +1 leadership. When advancing, rapid fire weapons are treated as assault weapons.
Warlord Trait: Death to the false emperor now triggers on 5+. Just, why? I hate things that are literally only effective against particular armies.
Stratagem: 1 cp to reroll 1's. If it's a tac squad you reroll all failed hits. Pretty good. Could be very effective. A bunch of chosen with plasma don't need a lord in range to safely overcharge.

Abaddon also gives +2 cp.

Compared to some of the other legions so far, this doesn't seem all that great. Perhaps it's just very subtle, idk. I'm looking forward to Alpha Legion and their -1 to hit at +12".

It's a bit ehhh if you take Abbadon and his pass morale, but otherwise this keeps BL moving and firing.

Given that there's not that many assault weapons and alot of rapid fire for infantry it does allow for better mobility. Which I can say is pretty good as an EC player with assault Sonic Guns.

But given that there's not much else besides SC's and Dark Apostle for morale having that extra +1 LD isn't too bad. It's a general rule but it works.

It's the chaos version of the ultramarine CT which is fine. It's middle of the ground and not a directly bad choice by any stretch, just not great either.

Abaddon getting +2 cp naturally is great assuming no point increase. If they still have him take wounds from his own weapon he'll still be meh

No relic listed which is interesting.

Tactical squad? Well that does read like it's ultramarines.

Bland.

Lancelot185 wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/04/legion-focus-black-legion-aug4gw-homepage-post-2/

Legion Trait: +1 leadership. When advancing, rapid fire weapons are treated as assault weapons.
Warlord Trait: Death to the false emperor now triggers on 5+. Just, why? I hate things that are literally only effective against particular armies.
Stratagem: 1 cp to reroll 1's. If it's a tac squad you reroll all failed hits. Pretty good. Could be very effective. A bunch of chosen with plasma don't need a lord in range to safely overcharge.

Abaddon also gives +2 cp.

Compared to some of the other legions so far, this doesn't seem all that great. Perhaps it's just very subtle, idk. I'm looking forward to Alpha Legion and their -1 to hit at +12".

Actually I think warlord traits that work against particular armies might be functional now that you can choose your traits.Because when you're up against marines, you can just choose that trait.

the_scotsman wrote:

Lancelot185 wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/04/legion-focus-black-legion-aug4gw-homepage-post-2/

Legion Trait: +1 leadership. When advancing, rapid fire weapons are treated as assault weapons.
Warlord Trait: Death to the false emperor now triggers on 5+. Just, why? I hate things that are literally only effective against particular armies.
Stratagem: 1 cp to reroll 1's. If it's a tac squad you reroll all failed hits. Pretty good. Could be very effective. A bunch of chosen with plasma don't need a lord in range to safely overcharge.

Abaddon also gives +2 cp.

Compared to some of the other legions so far, this doesn't seem all that great. Perhaps it's just very subtle, idk. I'm looking forward to Alpha Legion and their -1 to hit at +12".

Actually I think warlord traits that work against particular armies might be functional now that you can choose your traits.Because when you're up against marines, you can just choose that trait.

Also, if I'm not mistaken DttFE works against all Imperium armies, not just marines, which makes it much more useful. Extra attacks against fully half the armies in the game isn't too bad. It's not great if your meta doesn't have many imperium armies though.

Compared to World Eaters its not amazing, but for my meta at least I'd rank it above Night Lords (plenty of armies that ignore morale in my meta).

Who makes these titles, sounding like a brat wrote em.

Yay! As a Black Legion player, I think this is pretty great. Movement is the name of the game, and this ability increases movement, so therefore is good. Are Rhino's "Black Legion" in this book? If so, load up on dem dere Combi Bolters! Abaddon is my favourite force leader so far in the new set, already being the most improved, but giving some extra punch in close combat with Death to the False Emperor 5+ and some extra command points, and he's going to become auto-include methinks.

 Yarium wrote:
Yay! As a Black Legion player, I think this is pretty great. Movement is the name of the game, and this ability increases movement, so therefore is good. Are Rhino's "Black Legion" in this book? If so, load up on dem dere Combi Bolters! Abaddon is my favourite force leader so far in the new set, already being the most improved, but giving some extra punch in close combat with Death to the False Emperor 5+ and some extra command points, and he's going to become auto-include methinks.

I'd imagine that, similar to loyalists, only infantry, bikers and dreads can benefit from the legion tactics.

the_scotsman wrote:

Lancelot185 wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/04/legion-focus-black-legion-aug4gw-homepage-post-2/

Legion Trait: +1 leadership. When advancing, rapid fire weapons are treated as assault weapons.
Warlord Trait: Death to the false emperor now triggers on 5+. Just, why? I hate things that are literally only effective against particular armies.
Stratagem: 1 cp to reroll 1's. If it's a tac squad you reroll all failed hits. Pretty good. Could be very effective. A bunch of chosen with plasma don't need a lord in range to safely overcharge.

Abaddon also gives +2 cp.

Compared to some of the other legions so far, this doesn't seem all that great. Perhaps it's just very subtle, idk. I'm looking forward to Alpha Legion and their -1 to hit at +12".

Actually I think warlord traits that work against particular armies might be functional now that you can choose your traits.Because when you're up against marines, you can just choose that trait.

Except special characters, who have to take the unique trait.

It's.. ok . Abaddon really hates the imperium, makes sense.

Totally useless. Morale barely matters, you can't legally shoot assault weapons after advancing anyway RaW and a trait that only works against half the enemy armies is crap too.

It's not bad. Not great, but not trash either. It does, however, make plasma spam even more of a thing, which I personally think is bad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Totally useless. Morale barely matters, you can't legally shoot assault weapons after advancing anyway RaW and a trait that only works against half the enemy armies is crap too.

Nobody I know plays that way, and if anyone did well they're part of the problem with the game by trying to argue something so stupid.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Totally useless. Morale barely matters, you can't legally shoot assault weapons after advancing anyway RaW and a trait that only works against half the enemy armies is crap too.

Where does it say you can't shoot them? The whole point of assault weapons is so that you can advance and shoot (albeit, with a penalty).

Wayniac wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Totally useless. Morale barely matters, you can't legally shoot assault weapons after advancing anyway RaW and a trait that only works against half the enemy armies is crap too.

Are you seriously arguing that ridiculousness? Nobody I know plays that way, and if anyone did well they're part of the problem with the game by trying to argue something so stupid.

I am just stating fact, of course I'd never play it that way but I would allow it if my opponent wanted, because that's what the rules say.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Wayniac wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Totally useless. Morale barely matters, you can't legally shoot assault weapons after advancing anyway RaW and a trait that only works against half the enemy armies is crap too.

Are you seriously arguing that ridiculousness? Nobody I know plays that way, and if anyone did well they're part of the problem with the game by trying to argue something so stupid.

I am just stating fact, of course I'd never play it that way but I would allow it if my opponent wanted, because that's what the rules say.

Citation needed.

Lancelot185 wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Wayniac wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Totally useless. Morale barely matters, you can't legally shoot assault weapons after advancing anyway RaW and a trait that only works against half the enemy armies is crap too.

Are you seriously arguing that ridiculousness? Nobody I know plays that way, and if anyone did well they're part of the problem with the game by trying to argue something so stupid.

I am just stating fact, of course I'd never play it that way but I would allow it if my opponent wanted, because that's what the rules say.

Citation needed.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/730922.page

But anyway, Black Legion look extremely underwhelming especially compared to World Eaters. Literally no reason to ever run your army as Black Legion.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Lancelot185 wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Wayniac wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Totally useless. Morale barely matters, you can't legally shoot assault weapons after advancing anyway RaW and a trait that only works against half the enemy armies is crap too.

Are you seriously arguing that ridiculousness? Nobody I know plays that way, and if anyone did well they're part of the problem with the game by trying to argue something so stupid.

I am just stating fact, of course I'd never play it that way but I would allow it if my opponent wanted, because that's what the rules say.

Citation needed.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/730922.page

But anyway, Black Legion look extremely underwhelming especially compared to World Eaters. Literally no reason to ever run your army as Black Legion.

I agree with you there. Aside from any personal investment in BL, there's no reason to run them over WE.

Yeah these CT really only lend themselves to shooty marine horde armies, which have never been good. The warlord trait is powerful (mathematically as good as rerolling 1s and 2s to hit in CC, and stacks with rerolls), but only against half the armies. The strategem is mostly bad since your units should already have an hq giving them rerolls, though it's not terrible for deepstriking plasma.

Not impressed. My main army is Black Legion and I can't see where these rules could be considered any sort of an advantage.

The article suggests that we start taking 20 man units of infantry and march them up the board. The majority of those 20 man units are going to have weapons with no AP modifier. For all practical purposes, these rules are turning Black Legion into the CSM version of a horde army, only it's better shooting than assaulting. The leadership buff is nice, but let's remember that's just one less model you lose each time someone shoots up those large squads.

For infantry, this legion trait affects 3 weapons: the bolter, the plasma gun and the autogun. They are all rapid fire 1. We are getting the ability to shoot with them a few inches closer to the enemy at the cost of being able to charge. Seems like a very good way to set yourself up to be charged throughout the game.

For Terminators, I could see a slight advantage, but doesn't advancing mean heavy weapons are useless? Aren't we really saying heavy weapons mean nothing?

Let's consider these points with Death to the False Emperor in mind. So, 33% of the time, you will be able to take an additional shot for each successful hit. Great against Guard and Orks, but this doesn't mean much against MEQ. It's one or two more to-hit rolls per 10 models, which themselves will result in few wounds. And you have to have your warlord standing there within 6 inches for it to matter.

So who would actually want to take Abaddon with a Black Legion army? He's more expensive than a Land Raider without offering anywhere near the utility. A generic Chaos Lord would be a much better choice for Warlord if his role is to stand behind other squads to buff them.

MAYBE these rules would be good if you got the benefits of rapid fire when advancing, or could also charge after advancing. Maybe they would be good if Terminators could also shoot with heavy weapons after advancing. Maybe they would be good if Abaddon cost less. Maybe these rules would be good if you could take Chosen as troops and max out on plasma.

But all anyone is going to do is shoot up any Chosen squads that might be in your army then go after your mandantory troop choice CSMs. The only way I could see to make this work is by supplementing a shooty force with a lot of Berzerkers. And they are much, much better with World Eaters rules.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Lancelot185 wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Wayniac wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Totally useless. Morale barely matters, you can't legally shoot assault weapons after advancing anyway RaW and a trait that only works against half the enemy armies is crap too.

Are you seriously arguing that ridiculousness? Nobody I know plays that way, and if anyone did well they're part of the problem with the game by trying to argue something so stupid.

I am just stating fact, of course I'd never play it that way but I would allow it if my opponent wanted, because that's what the rules say.

Citation needed.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/730922.page

But anyway, Black Legion look extremely underwhelming especially compared to World Eaters. Literally no reason to ever run your army as Black Legion.

Cool. A purely opinion topic that's subjective except in proving that the even the lowest and most simple level of human reason is abandoned because people believe words are static, can never be interchanged and that writers give the readers the benefit of the doubt when it comes to basic understanding skills.

Anyway.

This looks solid. Not a fan of the Black Legion myself but they are solid. Not WE levels, or in my opinion NL (but I'm a huge NL fan so bias!) but I see it as a huge step above IW.

Alpha is next? Never liked them much so I guess next thing I get to look forward is 1K sons.

We got any ideas on what Alpha Legion might have (outside of the equivalent loyalist shtick).

cavebear56 wrote:

Cool. A purely opinion topic that's subjective except in proving that the even the lowest and most simple level of human reason is abandoned because people believe words are static, can never be interchanged and that writers give the readers the benefit of the doubt when it comes to basic understanding skills.

I sense this sentence is meant as a criticism but the level of condescension is overwhelming.

Seems appropriately thematic, weren't they well known for being aggressive and moving before they became chaotic?

0h man, these traits were basically tailor made for me. I run lots of Black Legion CSMs with Abaddon. Pumped!

I honestly think they intended the legion trait to grant the benefit of rapid fire whilst also advancing but GW can't write rules for gak. Whoever came up with this didn't read how rapid fire works and that bolters/plasmaguns/autoguns are rapid fire 1. ONE. Meaning ONE shot. When you swap it to assault, it's still only ONE shot. And for what? 1d6 extra movement and not being able to charge or fire heavy weapons at all? for the cost of being able to hit 1-6" deeper into your enemies ranks you now can't fire your heavy weapon? No thx. Use it on cultists and have them run towards the enemy shooting? Why are they not then equipped for CC if they're legging it up the board? Use it on Termies and Chosen? Well you're now losing the ability to charge and make use of those extra attacks and combat weapons those units have. So you're left with CSM squads, which we all know are crap.

The only time you'd get any use out of this trait is if you placed your models down particularly far from the enemy and were required to foot-slog it towards them, making use of that extra 1-6" movement and still shoot at your 24" range. But who the hell is putting foot-slogging marines at the back of the board when they intend to march towards the enemy and engage them? You either push them as close as possible so you can actually reach them before you're shot off the board, or you sit back at max range and shoot them. You don't march from max range on foot to try and engage. And if you did need to stay back initially for some reason, then surely you'd have your infantry in Rhino's so they didn't get mowed down by heavy weapons before turn 3?

The rule just doesn't operate how GW thinks it should and it doesn't fit how people actually play the game. In what niche is this useful? And to what unit? If they could fire full rapid fire and still advance, whilst also firing heavy weapons as if they were assault then it'd have a use. You could easily redeploy during the game, hitting one flank and then advancing and firing to reach the other before the game is over. That'd have a use.

The leadership is nice but you're still not taking 20 stonrg squads of CSM. You're taking 5 as a detachment tax if you don't wanna take cultists.

Let the Galaxy Burn is a nice stratagem, emulating a Lord buff anywhere on the table. Is it strong enough to focus on taking CSM though? Probably not, but every now and then when you need it it can make that CSM tax unit you took worth it for one round of shooting only.

BL are easily the weakest legion released yet. I;m not seeing anything here that makes them good at anything. They're gonna need the vanilla codex and it's hoard of buffs and synergies to pull them up out of the gutter and make them good. You're gonna see BL perform relatively well on the table, but that's because chaos will be so strong, not because of anything BL specifically do.

Oh and they stole an ability from another source in the same codex, utterly invalidating the Icon of Excess for BL lists. If we're getting free icon rules how come NL didn't get free Icon of Despair rules?

Funny thing is the Icon of Excess warlord aura is actually how the icons should operate. They shouldn't be wargear available to a unit, they should be bought by a model (one model in the case of those in a unit, or a character) and operate as a buff, like banners do in Imperial armies. It's baffling that characters can never benefit from Icon rules. Why are Slaanesh CSM better at exploding hits in combat than Slaanesh Lords? Makes no sense. If Icons wer aura's then BL could get all the extra attacks they wanted from one or two icons, and could have received something else as a warlord trait.

The real mileage of the trait seems to be cult troops. Rubrics in particular benefit from both aspects (giving them mobility and letting them go to 10 with less risk). Plague marines with blight launchers can benefit from the rest of the unit's firepower when advancing, and melee noise marines running with bolters get a small boost. It also helps regular foot slogging CSM/combi bolter chosen.

It isn't the best trait but it isn't useless.

The warlord trait is the big letdown. Abby locked into a trait that doesn't do much except with the right build vs the right army. Particularly compared to what RG/Calgar gets. The CP buff mitigates it though.

The stratagem encourages 10 man CSM squads as well, but I'm not sure it does much beyond that. Abby already has his aura to do this or better for a solid chunk, so it's really for objective grabbers.

Defiantly add a little speed to Rubric Marines if taken as Black Legion

 techsoldaten wrote:

cavebear56 wrote:

Cool. A purely opinion topic that's subjective except in proving that the even the lowest and most simple level of human reason is abandoned because people believe words are static, can never be interchanged and that writers give the readers the benefit of the doubt when it comes to basic understanding skills.

I sense this sentence is meant as a criticism but the level of condescension is overwhelming.

The condescension is necessary at this point. Topics that silly make it so.

Seems very similar to the Ultramarine tactics. Both have +1 Ld, the Ultramarines get to pull away and shoot, the Black Legion get to advance and shoot.

I think the latter is just as much a utility perk that the Ultramarine one is. The Ultramarine one only functions if you get into melee, and sometimes it's better simply to stay in combat and get that first strike. The Black Legion one gets you closer to the enemy, or even would allow you to pull backwards into cover or behind another unit. Sometimes getting into rapid fire range would be better than charging, and you might not always have heavy weapons. Plasma guns will be good with this addition, getting psuedo-Assault.

Overall, pretty solid, not brilliant like WE or RG, but a good enough trait imo.

Yawn.

Somehow not surprisingly I've only been impressed by the traits of the god-specific legions, though WE are sorely 1-dimensional.

And I really dislike the articles' stance of 'take god specific things in your non-god specific legion, that will make <legion> good'

I have no idea what tables folks are playing on that needing to run 1d6" inches to fire at -1 is useful or necessary with 24" weapons, but it doesn't sound like a 4x6 with normal deployment zones.

Clearly GW only wants us to play Apocalypse so we have to buy even moar plastic spacemans and Giant Tonka Gundams