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What do you guys think about 3 Venerable Dreadnoughts with TwinLascannon and Missile Launcher as an AA backbone?

BS2, doesn't degrade and it offers 3 targets instead of a big one, could even bunch them up and use the new stratagem so they pretty much always hit and they're still good if getting charged.

 Gendo wrote:
What do you guys think about 3 Venerable Dreadnoughts with TwinLascannon and Missile Launcher as an AA backbone?

BS2, doesn't degrade and it offers 3 targets instead of a big one, could even bunch them up and use the new stratagem so they pretty much always hit and they're still good if getting charged.

According to someone here, that isn't a valid strategy because his deep striking terminators would kill you....

SemperMortis wrote:

p5freak wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

Because as we know, opponents will always leave their most valuable units exposed without any cover and completely vulnerable to you.

Makes no sense to hide a dev squad, they need LOS to shoot.

SemperMortis wrote:

I played against a Girlyman player in a tournament who brought 2 Predator Annihilators next to Girlyman and a few other things like Asscan Razorbacks and Plasma Primaris Marines. Everything he had was TL and had Shred (reroll to wound) He also was castled up in a corner of the map where the only place you could drop in on him was 9in directly in front of his army. That list right there versus any flyer in the game would have won easily. 8 TL Lascanons rerolling wounds against a T7 Flyer = 6 Hits, 5 wounds and about 15-20 damage.

So against that guy what would you deepstrike in to kill his predator annihilators? Ohh and he also had that Banner dude with an apothocary nearby so if you actually did kill an infantry model it got to shoot at you and then had a 50/50 to come back to life again. So again, what are you deepstriking in front of that army to kill his 2 predator annihilators or 2 squads of Devastators?

What kind of weird game was that ? No objectives to hold ? Was he hiding in the corner the whole game ? What did he shoot at, when he was castled up ? His vision must have been impaired quite a but, i think ?
I wouldnt deepstrike immediately. There are units in the game that dont need LOS to wound. Like librarians with smite. If he cant see me, he cant shoot me. I can smite him. I could use the orbital strike stratagem. I could hit him with a whirlwind who is also hiding in a corner.

6 objectives, it was an ITC Tournament, what did he shoot? My Ork Hordes. Who won? it was a tie because he was able to blast most of my forces off the table and use 2 deep striking squads to hold objectives and his Tac Marines to hold a contested objective. And yes he hid in the corner most of the game. So yes it works just fine and can kill flyers.

Faced a similar setup in an AdMech army, deployment in opposite corners and he had lots of units in ruins and using incorrect cover rules...he shot everything I had then came out and grabbed the objetives, very frustrating to play against.

 Karhedron wrote:
Vanguard Veterans with Jump Packs and Thunder Hammers!

No idea how effective it is but I love the idea of a bunch of herioc/insane marines landing on a supersonic aircraft and trying to smash through the cockpit with Thunderhammers before getting dragged off into the slipstream.

Curious my self on this one

also never forget to throw your grenades at it

i took down a storm raven that way

 Talizvar wrote:
Being a fluff killing troll: Use heavy flamer skimmers for killing aircraft.
I think Black Templar like to their heretics well done right?
I would also dare anyone to try to bog them down in melee (the initial auto hits would hurt).

I REALLY like the hammer jump pack vanguard: almost as vivid an image as Stormboyz.

Pretty much everything I face in my local meta has better combat atm and they shoot harder in most cases, I barely make it when I get the charge off and that's with power weapons and Helbrecht.

Vanguard Vets got the charge in 1 out of 8 games and at 1W they die quickly after, they could be interesting out of a LRC but I've got no room to spare for their JP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:

 Gendo wrote:
What do you guys think about 3 Venerable Dreadnoughts with TwinLascannon and Missile Launcher as an AA backbone?

BS2, doesn't degrade and it offers 3 targets instead of a big one, could even bunch them up and use the new stratagem so they pretty much always hit and they're still good if getting charged.

According to someone here, that isn't a valid strategy because his deep striking terminators would kill you....

If they have my luck with deep striking they wont being 6" apart they can realistically wrap 2 of them, I'd fall back (sorry Emperor) and shoot with the 3rd one and everything else in range.

I usually run a Las Pred with a Ven Dread nearby having a LasCannon and fist+flamer as deterrent, it does the job at the cost of additional firepower and points.

Bubble wrapping a moving army it's expensive and hard to pull off, very cautious movement it's better for me and feel free to charge my LRC because if you don't surround it it will get repaired by my Techmarine and everything else inside will hit hard to then fall back and get shot by the LRC.

SemperMortis wrote:

 Gendo wrote:
What do you guys think about 3 Venerable Dreadnoughts with TwinLascannon and Missile Launcher as an AA backbone?

BS2, doesn't degrade and it offers 3 targets instead of a big one, could even bunch them up and use the new stratagem so they pretty much always hit and they're still good if getting charged.

According to someone here, that isn't a valid strategy because his deep striking terminators would kill you....

Who would that be ?

Venerable dreads look like a decent option actually. I think I slightly prefer the mortis contemptor for the pure AA role. However with a venerable guy you've got the option of a twin-lascannon and a fist. That's not enough on its own, so take more than one of them. You'll have units that can do a lot of good for you regardless of your opponent.

 Gendo wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:
Being a fluff killing troll: Use heavy flamer skimmers for killing aircraft.
I think Black Templar like to their heretics well done right?
I would also dare anyone to try to bog them down in melee (the initial auto hits would hurt).
I REALLY like the hammer jump pack vanguard: almost as vivid an image as Stormboyz.

Pretty much everything I face in my local meta has better combat atm and they shoot harder in most cases, I barely make it when I get the charge off and that's with power weapons and Helbrecht.
Vanguard Vets got the charge in 1 out of 8 games and at 1W they die quickly after, they could be interesting out of a LRC but I've got no room to spare for their JP.

Whirlwind was surprising how well it consistently hurt units.
The Predator Autocannon was VERY surprising to me, look at the stats on that... lascannon sponsons I think are the thing to do.
I fielded 3 attack bikes with the HB and they were awesome as a support unit with a good reach.
Drop pods act as a good temporary terrain to drop in front of units and unload whatever kind of nasty you have in mind.
Stormtalon with dual assault cannons and the Typhoon seemed to eat units.
Maybe dual assault cannons on Razorbacks?
I am thinking of supplementing the BT's with Reivers with whatever loadout you like with the grappling hooks.
Do not overlook scouts with sniper rifles: my opponent was getting quite upset his special characters were getting shot at.
I was trying to field the autocannon "Dakka-Dread" but my opponents were always so scared of it they tended to shoot at it above all else.
A dread in your "backyard" with the assault cannon and fist with heavy flamer seems to also do well for defending the indirect fire units AND get a few pot-shots off as needed.

That is pretty much all I can think of.
The LRC is so many points it was hard to field it without feeling like it took too many points.

<edit> I got good utility out of normal jump-pack troops with the BP and chainswords... Vanguard is pretty good but again may be a bit too many points wrapped up in assault unit: how will they pay for themselves?

 Talizvar wrote:

 Gendo wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:
Being a fluff killing troll: Use heavy flamer skimmers for killing aircraft.
I think Black Templar like to their heretics well done right?
I would also dare anyone to try to bog them down in melee (the initial auto hits would hurt).
I REALLY like the hammer jump pack vanguard: almost as vivid an image as Stormboyz.

Pretty much everything I face in my local meta has better combat atm and they shoot harder in most cases, I barely make it when I get the charge off and that's with power weapons and Helbrecht.
Vanguard Vets got the charge in 1 out of 8 games and at 1W they die quickly after, they could be interesting out of a LRC but I've got no room to spare for their JP.

Whirlwind was surprising how well it consistently hurt units.
The Predator Autocannon was VERY surprising to me, look at the stats on that... lascannon sponsons I think are the thing to do.
I fielded 3 attack bikes with the HB and they were awesome as a support unit with a good reach.
Drop pods act as a good temporary terrain to drop in front of units and unload whatever kind of nasty you have in mind.
Stormtalon with dual assault cannons and the Typhoon seemed to eat units.
Maybe dual assault cannons on Razorbacks?
I am thinking of supplementing the BT's with Reivers with whatever loadout you like with the grappling hooks.
Do not overlook scouts with sniper rifles: my opponent was getting quite upset his special characters were getting shot at.
I was trying to field the autocannon "Dakka-Dread" but my opponents were always so scared of it they tended to shoot at it above all else.
A dread in your "backyard" with the assault cannon and fist with heavy flamer seems to also do well for defending the indirect fire units AND get a few pot-shots off as needed.

That is pretty much all I can think of.
The LRC is so many points it was hard to field it without feeling like it took too many points.

<edit> I got good utility out of normal jump-pack troops with the BP and chainswords... Vanguard is pretty good but again may be a bit too many points wrapped up in assault unit: how will they pay for themselves?

Used the Autocannon on the Predator and it did well against a mostly infantry + Rhinos army.

Razorback with Lascannon and Missile unit inside did also good, started dropping the RB because they get targeted but carrying a ranged unit and pretty much all sitting still worked well, still prefer Rhino when moving for the extra capacity allowing Combat units.

I get the LRC it's expensive but unless it gets targeted or charged it's a lot of firepower supporting a mostly Combat army, I run it with Helbrecht a Techmarine and 2 Crusader squads with Power Swords and Meltas and that's 4 Meltas total, 4 Swords at S5 AP-3 plus Techmarine loadout...
I'm learning that the Techmarine alone it's a strong deterrent for even putting wounds into the LRC and a very capable unit on its own, I might actually drop other transports for another LRC and get even less targeting on them, as someone wise said '1 LRC and you have a problem, 2 LRC and the opponent has a problem', still awaiting stock thought...

Edit: Now that I read my LRC loadout I realise it's actually pretty beast against armour but i use it in Combat against the toughest walking units i can aim for or lacking that just infantry, hmmm might as well drop the squads size to 5 if keeping the AA focus or just drop the 2 Meltas and 1 Sword each squad for a more versatile loadout.

Ah now this is the perfect thread because I mainly only play against Eldar, Necrons, and Tau. And damn near everything is hovering or flying.

So space marines have SH Interceptors, Hunter/Stalker, jump pack melee units (though I find them unreliable on paper), 1 flakk missile a turn, and from forge world the Xiphon, and the Hyperion. Which of these seem to be the consensus for best AA? I am, in particular, playing a high volume of fly units and am stuck between all these for my next purchase.

IG also have hydras and from FW hydra platforms

Edit: Dunecrawler AA set up is worth noting

To me the stormhawk interceptor is the best AA. Because its a flyer it always has vision on enemy flyers, huge advantage over vehicles which usually only get to shoot once at the flyer, then its out of sight. Exception is the whirlwind hyperios. The interceptor hits anything with the keyword FLY, who are not hard to hit, on 2+. Lots of eldar units have the FLY keyword, and some necron units too. The flyer is a bargain for 168 pts.

p5freak wrote:
To me the stormhawk interceptor is the best AA. Because its a flyer it always has vision on enemy flyers, huge advantage over vehicles which usually only get to shoot once at the flyer, then its out of sight. Exception is the whirlwind hyperios. The interceptor hits anything with the keyword FLY, who are not hard to hit, on 2+. Lots of eldar units have the FLY keyword, and some necron units too. The flyer is a bargain for 168 pts.

Las talon and missile launcher are good AA but you're always hitting tanks on 4+, what about a simple squad of 3 Meltas on Bikes or even 3 Meltas and a Hammer as you may want to charge whatever you don't kill.

On my way to buy the Interceptor anyway...as I never had a flyer and looks cool

 Gendo wrote:

p5freak wrote:
To me the stormhawk interceptor is the best AA. Because its a flyer it always has vision on enemy flyers, huge advantage over vehicles which usually only get to shoot once at the flyer, then its out of sight. Exception is the whirlwind hyperios. The interceptor hits anything with the keyword FLY, who are not hard to hit, on 2+. Lots of eldar units have the FLY keyword, and some necron units too. The flyer is a bargain for 168 pts.

Las talon and missile launcher are good AA but you're always hitting tanks on 4+, what about a simple squad of 3 Meltas on Bikes or even 3 Meltas and a Hammer as you may want to charge whatever you don't kill.

On my way to buy the Interceptor anyway...as I never had a flyer and looks cool

There's no point in taking those options for that exact reason, at that point you should take the SH gunship. I would only taken the Icarus and sky hammer missiles to specialize in AA

Both guns are not worth paying the flyer for; too low dps on flyers and then completely useless on the rest.

Also don't forget the stormhawk interceptor has always the penatly for moving.

This is about the best AA unit. It doesnt matter how good, or bad, the unit is at shooting non-FLY targets.

PandatheWarrior wrote:
Both guns are not worth paying the flyer for; too low dps on flyers and then completely useless on the rest.

Also don't forget the stormhawk interceptor has always the penatly for moving.

+1 to hit flyers and +1 to hit flyers on the weapons. Even while moving you'll be hitting hard to hit units on a 3+ and things like crisis suits on a 2+

It does matter if the ennemy bring no flyers or if there are dead.

PandatheWarrior wrote:
It does matter if the ennemy bring no flyers or if there are dead.

Clearly, but it depends on the army you're facing. I personally play armies with a high Fly-keyword prevalence so a SH Interceptor can take out actual aircraft and then fly key word units. Really depends on your meta, if you know the people you play don't take fliers then of course the SHI has diminishing returns or low value

I'm not specifically asking about Anti Flyer, if I load it out for that I'll be hitting ground targets at 5+ except for the Autocannon.

The gunship only has the Twin Lascannon as AA with a +1 to hit ground units and 1 twin linked Autocannon. 195pts

The interceptor has the Las Talon (H2 Lascannon) and the typhoon launcher, with two single Autocannon that can split fire and a reroll armour saves of 1. 217pts

There also the difference that the Interceptor it's T7 and the Gunship it's T6.

Already bought it and will magnetise the weapons so I can use both depending on opponent.