Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Another good use of the stratagem is to place a tough Nurgle character behind the cover of other troops concealed behind enemy lines, to summon a Great Unclean One or a bunch of Beasts or Plaguebearers.

 Astmeister wrote:
Havocs are also a very nice unit to use with the AL Legion Trait of -1 to hit over 12 inch.

Definitely. And if there's a nice inaccessible piece of terrain with good vantage points outside of your normal deployment zone, you can use the AL stratagem to place them on top of it from the very beginning. Or deploy them normally and use the stratagem to put plague marines between them and the enemy to protect their position (more than 12" away, naturally).

Mandragola wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Ignoring fluff... So Alpha Legion Plague Marines sound pretty decent. Thoughts on load out?

They wouldn't be my first choice actually. It strikes me that AL benefit most units that either hit very hard at close range (using the stratagem to get there) or that shoot effectively from outside of 12". To me, that suggests using berzerkers and/or noise marines. I'd go so far as to say that noise marines are clearly better using AL CT than Emperors' Children - as noise marines don't gain an awful lot by striking first in cc.

There is some good synergy between noise marines and the AL talent. Sonic Blasters are Assault weapons and Blastmasters can be, so Noise Marines can use Advance to stay >12" away from enemies, terrain permitting.

Slaanesh flavored alpha Legion looks like a great combo so far. Noise Marines, demon princes, obliterator all benefit greatly from the -1 to hit.

Atlatl Jones wrote:

Mandragola wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Ignoring fluff... So Alpha Legion Plague Marines sound pretty decent. Thoughts on load out?

They wouldn't be my first choice actually. It strikes me that AL benefit most units that either hit very hard at close range (using the stratagem to get there) or that shoot effectively from outside of 12". To me, that suggests using berzerkers and/or noise marines. I'd go so far as to say that noise marines are clearly better using AL CT than Emperors' Children - as noise marines don't gain an awful lot by striking first in cc.

There is some good synergy between noise marines and the AL talent. Sonic Blasters are Assault weapons and Blastmasters can be, so Noise Marines can use Advance to stay >12" away from enemies, terrain permitting.

Actually with the infiltration Strategem, Plague Marines are an excellent choice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I still want clarification if Arkos and therefore The Faithless operate under Alpha Legion from FW. They never answered my question via email yet.

On the idea that quantity has a quality all of its own.
How about infiltrating up 40 cultists?

Not many points, but enough models to box in the enemy army.

Add in buffs like dark apostle, aspiring champion, VoTLW and BFTBG they might actually do some damage.
And if they are close to being wiped, use Tide of Traitors to bring them back at full stength.

I thought of this too. Like you said, It might be a good way to "box the opponent in". You sacrifice 160 points in cultists though. Because you won't be able to bring them back. Let's be real here, if the opponent's army is not able to even wipe out 40 cultists which are so close to their entire army (in double tap range), then something is seriously wrong with their army list. This is assuming they seize initiative of course.

You won't be able to add buffs from dark apostle, aspiring champion unless you actually are willing to spend the CP to infiltrate those as well. And do you really want to risk having such valuable characters infiltrated with just cultists as a buffer? They will be massacred!

Actually was thinking drop pod the characters in where needed. No risk that way.

I guess 40 wounds isn't too difficult. At least would require getting out of transports.

I am considering myself to get the Cultist assault box for those 20 extra cultist, to bring a squad of 30 and infiltrate them.

If I go first I'll drop them 9" away the enemy. They might be able to kill a pair of conscripts if any, but they will be useful as a screen for my Sorcerer in Terminator armor - who will be casting Prescience and Warptime on a 10 plasma termies squad.

If I go second and my opponent has deep strike units, I plan to deploy them 17" away my front line, so I can prevent him to shoot my valuable units.

If I go second but my oponent doesn't have deep strike units... well, then we'll see. That's what I love from the AL stratagem, it gives you versatility and can influence the way your enemy deploys (having 30 cultist 9" away your objectives makes you think I guess).

The idea with the cultists is far better in Maelstrom, where you can easily deny an objective. Also the "Tide of Traitors" stratagem should be very useful in the case of 40 infiltrating cultists.

I think it has potential, but not the brutal killing power of 20 Berzerkers or the targeted strike capabilities of chosen with 6 Plasma rifles.

 Astmeister wrote:
The idea with the cultists is far better in Maelstrom, where you can easily deny an objective. Also the "Tide of Traitors" stratagem should be very useful in the case of 40 infiltrating cultists.

I think it has potential, but not the brutal killing power of 20 Berzerkers or the targeted strike capabilities of chosen with 6 Plasma rifles.

Yeah, I don't know why but I don't like Berserkers... maybe it is because of the fluff - all of my units are devoted to Tzeentch except the termis which are Slaanesh for the cool 'Shoot twice' stratagem. I don't like the models as well. I could try converting them from AoS Khrone troops or even from Primaris as @Cephalobeard suggested in the Chaos Tactics thread, but most of my army is heavily converted and I'm afraid I don't have the time for more of that!

I could try to infiltrate my 10 possesed, but they are good starting on my deployment zone along the Changelling and the Herald on disk. Without the buffs they are not that good.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Actually with the infiltration Strategem, Plague Marines are an excellent choice.

I was going to disagree, but then took a closer look at the updated plague marines from the Codex. A large squad of plague marines armed with bubotic axes and plague knives, with a couple plague spewers or belchers, and an Icon of Despair, can be nasty up close and very durable, if rather expensive. I'm tempted to use the stratagem twice, with a unit of plague marines screening a unit of berzerkers from enemy fire.

After playing with Alpha Legion, I'm very confident that Obliterators are incredible with them. However, at only T4 and 2W each, they're also very much glass cannons.

I'm going to be adding 20 Berserkers (Converted from Reivers) in 2 Squads of 10 to my upcoming lists, and I feel giving them their infiltrate will very much add to the power of the list.

With 3 Squads of Obliterators and 2 squads of Zerkers, there is very little that wouldn't fall to that alpha strike.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
After playing with Alpha Legion, I'm very confident that Obliterators are incredible with them. However, at only T4 and 2W each, they're also very much glass cannons.

Obliterators have 3W. Also, with 2+ saves and 5+ invulnerable saves, I wouldn't call them glass cannons. With Teleport Strike and Assault 4 weapons, they're also fairly well suited to staying more than 12" away from the enemy, for the extra -1 to be hit. If you want to use some true glass cannons for alpha striking, infiltrate some Havocs!

Still, I hope the Death Guard codex has a version of them with T5 and Disgustingly Resilient! I'd gladly pay a bit more for Obliterators that are harder to hurt.

They're also Daemons, so you can buff them with Daemon leaders, such as by making them Tzeentch and putting the Changeling near them for the extra -1 to be hit.

Sure. You don't need to call them class cannons.

However, mine tend to die pretty quickly once someone is past the -2 to be hit from Alpha/Changeling.

Either way, they're sticking in the army and have been a solid choice.

Berzerkers are next. Two squads of ten. Two squads of 10 Cultists and 1 squad of 40.

I wanted to point out that there was a list posted in the NOVA thread in the General Discussion subforum that used Alpha Legion, but most importantly it used Arkos, who've I been saying is Faithless = Alpha Legion. Otherwise there's no point in using him just for the extra Command Point, so I wanted to look at him once again.

Not only is he a cheap option at 125 points, but he adds 1" to charge distances. That means Berserkers will be having a gay ol' time making it to the enemy. Not to mention that, because he has Alpha Legion and Aura, he's at -2 to hit. You can literally not be hit by shooting Orks and Conscripts.

Yeah. +1 to Charge isn't a huge deal for Alphas, though, when you're infiltrating your Zerkers 9" away and then moving them.

A sorcerer is 1 pt more and you can give a 40 man blob of cultists a 5+ fnp.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Sure. You don't need to call them class cannons.

However, mine tend to die pretty quickly once someone is past the -2 to be hit from Alpha/Changeling.

Either way, they're sticking in the army and have been a solid choice.

Berzerkers are next. Two squads of ten. Two squads of 10 Cultists and 1 squad of 40.

Do you run everything up the board? Or stick the zerkers in Rhinos? Or you use forward operative to put the zerkers at 9.1 inches at the start of battle? @@

Eldenfirefly wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Sure. You don't need to call them class cannons.

However, mine tend to die pretty quickly once someone is past the -2 to be hit from Alpha/Changeling.

Either way, they're sticking in the army and have been a solid choice.

Berzerkers are next. Two squads of ten. Two squads of 10 Cultists and 1 squad of 40.

Do you run everything up the board? Or stick the zerkers in Rhinos? Or you use forward operative to put the zerkers at 9.1 inches at the start of battle? @@

Personally? Forward operatives 9.1" away. Or in a ruin if I go second, with a jump pack sorc coming down to warp time them and basically guarantee the drop.

The Icon to reroll charges is enough, I think. Arkos is neat and is useful for summoning, but with all the new CSM powers I'd rather have a Sorcerer.

Hmm, but if you are going for forward operatives, why not go the whole hog and play 20 zerkers in a squad? more efficient use of command points.

Because I'm already running 3 Squads of Obliterators and think squads of 10 is sufficient for the job zerkers do. 20 Is overkill in almost all situations.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Because I'm already running 3 Squads of Obliterators and think squads of 10 is sufficient for the job zerkers do. 20 Is overkill in almost all situations.

Not only that, those 20 man squads aren't Fearless anymore. So you might have those command points available to spend to save them once, but the second time it happens you're out. 8 (!) To 10 man squads is sufficient.

Exactly.

Current mock up for an Alpha Legion base is:

Battalion (1621pts)

Daemon Prince <Slaanesh>
Wings, Claws, Alluring Elixir

Sorcerer
Jump pack, Staff, Chainsword

Sorcerer
Jump pack, Staff, Chainsword

40 Cultists <Slaanesh>
Autoguns

2x 10 Cultists

2x 10 Zerkers
Icon

1x Slaanesh Obliterator
2x Tzeentch Obliterator



Gives you a very strong alpha strike in both deep striking the Obliterators and infiltrating the Zerkers. Fill the rest of the points with Daemons (Changeling, etc) and I think you're sitting pretty.

What are everyone's thoughts on chain axes vs. chainswords for berzerkers? I can't decide which is better, though I'm leaning toward axes. Is it worth the trouble to give the entire squad axes?

I'm going pure Axes/Swords. No need for pea shooters.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I'm going pure Axes/Swords. No need for pea shooters.

Same here, but I'm using the option of 2 Plasma Pistols + Chainaxes and a Plasma Pistol + Power Fist on the Champion.

Tzeentch Alpha w/ Arkos and Zerkers – 2000pts

Battalion

Lord Arkos
I am Alpharius

Sorcerer
Jump Pack, Staff, Chainsword

Sorcerer
Jump Pack, Staff, Chainsword

40 Cultists
Slaanesh, Autoguns

2x 10 Cultists

2x 10 Berzerkers
Icon of Wrath

1x 3 Slaanesh Obliterators
2x 3 Tzeentch Obliterators

Battalion

Changeling
Slaanesh Herald on Steed

2x 1 Blue 9 Brim

1x 1 Blue 11 Brim

Supreme Command

2x Slaanesh Lord on Steed
2x Lightning Claws

1x Slaanesh Lord on Steed
Lightning Claws, Alluring Elixir




-----------


Alright, Nerds. Here's my most recent list. Now, first immediate comment, I know I'm using Arkos despite literally one this same page decrying him, but purely because I'm using both 2x Zerker Squads and the 3x Lords who Advance AND Charge, his movement aura I believe is justified.

Each lord is 6 Attacks at S5 AP-2 1D, 2 Attacks at S4 ap- 1d.

Zerkers are each 2 Attacks S5 Ap-1 1D, 1 attack at S4 ap- 1d and they fight twice

Oblits are S6+d3 Ap d3 D d3

Sorcerers are S6 Ap-2 d3 Damage at 4 attacks each

Total units:

60 Cultists
32 Horrors (3 Splits)
9 Obliterators
Lord Arkos
20 Zerkers
2 Sorcerers (Jump Packs)
3 Lords
1 Slaanesh Herald

All in all, I'm feeling really good about the Alpha Strike potential here.

Pun intended.

.. how are your bezerker squads and lords advancing and charging again?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh you just meant the steed lords. Nm.

Yeah. Just the steeds. They're honestly a tossup, and I'm strongly considering tossing them out for an Additional Vanguard Detachment, moving Arkos over to it, then adding 2x 5 Noise Marines, a Rhino, and a stock Chaos Lord for rerolls.

Ends up very close to 2k, and I think the 2x Noise Marine squads w/ 4 Sonic Blasters and 1 Blastmaster are a fine addition.

I'm kinda frustrated cos I just tore up my slaaneshi Lord of steed conversion for parts, cos they looked naff.. But now they are back in vogue. He's a daemon too right so that Herald will buff up strength.

Yep. Makes them S5 Stock.

I do think the noise marines end up being better, however. I made an error with points and ended up cutting them, but I do wish I could use them more. I suppose I could, however, remove the Daemon Battalion but the -2 to the Obliterators is very strong, and it allows me to still use many cheap horrors for screens.

-------------


Tzeentch Alpha w/ Arkos and Zerkers – 2000pts

Battalion

Sorcerer
Jump Pack, Staff, Chainsword

Sorcerer
Jump Pack, Staff, Chainsword

40 Cultists
Slaanesh, Autoguns

2x 10 Cultists

2x 10 Berzerkers
Icon of Wrath


Spearhead Detachment

Lord Arkos
I am Alpharius

Daemon Prince
Slaanesh, Wings, 2x Talons, Alluring Elixir

1x 3 Slaanesh Obliterators
2x 3 Tzeentch Obliterators



Battalion

Changeling
Malefic Lord

2x 1 Blue 9 Brim
2x 10 Brim