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V1.1 of Xenia 2 Tau Saviour protocol allows tau player to dump the damage from an enemy wounding attack to a drone as a single mortal wound instead of attacks original damage.

Is smite an enemy attack that can be dumped to a drone regardless of how much damage was rolled (d3 or d6)?

I would say a Mortal Wound is still a Wound, and thus could be transferred to a drone.

Keep in mind mortal wounds are applied one at a time so if smite rolled 3 moral wounds you would have to use three drones to eat it instead

Aren't the mortal wounds from the single attack smite, the damage? Isn't the single spell the attack doing the damage? Doesn't saviour protocol say all the damage from the attack is ignored and replaced with a single mortal wound instead?

 Tactica wrote:
Aren't the mortal wounds from the single attack smite, the damage? Isn't the single spell the attack doing the damage? Doesn't saviour protocol say all the damage from the attack is ignored and replaced with a single mortal wound instead?

No mortal wounds are different as they flow over unlike other wounds

 Tactica wrote:
Aren't the mortal wounds from the single attack smite, the damage? Isn't the single spell the attack doing the damage? Doesn't saviour protocol say all the damage from the attack is ignored and replaced with a single mortal wound instead?

No. You roll to hit,. If successful you roll to wound. If successful you can intercept and any amount of damage the wound would have done is now converted into a single mortal wound.

Attacks that generate mortal wounds without a roll to hit, which wound automatically because that is how the mortal wound do, apply each damage as it's own individual hit. So a spore mine does d3 mortal wounds. It could kill 3 1 wound models because it's 3 hits and so each hit carries over to the next model. Likewise smite is not a single hit. It's a number of mortal wounds i.e. a number of automatic hits that automatically wound.

Yep, mortal wounds are still wounds that get allocated, so Savior Protocols can be used to pass them off. But also agreed that each mortal wound is a separate attack, and therefore would have to be resolved separately against the drone unit.

Where are you getting that Saviour Protocols redirects the entirety of a wounding attack to a single wound on one drone?

In the FAQ/Errata it says to allocate wounds to the drone unit. 6 wounds from a lascannon would need 6 drones.

@DarknessEternal,

Last sentence.

Pages 53, 56, 57, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73 and 74 – Saviour Protocols
Change this rule to read:
Saviour Protocols: If a <Sept> Drones unit is within 3" of a friendly <Sept> Infantry or <Sept> Battlesuit unit when an enemy attack successfully wounds it, you can allocate that wound to the Drones unit instead of the target. If you do, that Drones unit suffers a mortal wound instead of the normal damage.

source: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/40K_8th_ed_Update_Index_Xenos_2_ver_1.1.pdf

It *seems*, an attack that wounds (failed to save or negate), but has not yet dealt damage, is different than the damage a wounding attack might deliver. A successfully wounding attack can dish out damage in the form of wounds or mortal wounds.

Thus, a wounding attack is not equal to the damage the attack deals.

So is the spell Smite an attack or multiple attacks? If it were multiple attacks, there would be no question. It *seems* like a single attack (spell) which deals multiple mortal wounds for its DAMAGE if not negated. Now, hypothetically - if it rolled to hit 3 times, then it would definitely be 3 individual attacks and would need to be savior protocol'd 3 times - again, there would be no question.

Here's a 'gun' example, let's use a Tau Supremacy Railgun - each HIT that wounds and (not saved or negated) willd cause DAMAGE to the target. There are two types of damage it can deal out. Each such wounding hit does D6 damage in wounds per hit normally. Furthermore, on a roll of a 6+ to hit though, the target takes D3 Mortal Wounds of damage in addition to the normal D6 wounds damage. NOTE, it's all still a single successful hit... the single HIT of a 6+ will cause D6 damage + D3 Mortal Wounds. The read of the Saviour protocols seems to state that all damage from the hit is ignored when the drone savior protocols kick in, and it all becomes a single mortal wound.

Anyway, just throwing it out there to chew on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 yakface wrote:


...But also agreed that each mortal wound is a separate attack, and therefore would have to be resolved separately against the drone unit.

You lose me here. Where does it state that Mortal Wounds from Smite are a separate attack?

It's a single spell, with a single test for success.

BTW, please also see also the Supremacy Rail gun example above if you have time.

Appreciate the time in advance,

 Tactica wrote:

 yakface wrote:


...But also agreed that each mortal wound is a separate attack, and therefore would have to be resolved separately against the drone unit.

You lose me here. Where does it state that Mortal Wounds from Smite are a separate attack?

It's a single spell, with a single test for success.

BTW, please also see also the Supremacy Rail gun example above if you have time.

Appreciate the time in advance,

Read the rules for mortal wounds in the rulebook. Each mortal wound is always treated as a separate attack.

 yakface wrote:


Read the rules for mortal wounds in the rulebook. Each mortal wound is always treated as a separate attack.

@yakface,

Thank you for the quick reply. I've got the electronic version in front of me now. I've searched and read all mortal wound entries. I think this is the paragraph you are referencing.

Pg. 256.

" Mortal Wounds

Some attacks inflict mortal wounds - these are so powerful that no armor or force field can withstand their fury. Each mortal wound inflicts one point of damage on the target unit. Do not make a wound roll or saving throw (including inv saves) against a mortal wound - just allo9cate it as you would any other wound and inflict damage to a model in the target unit as described above. Unlike normal attacks, excess damage from attacks that inflict mortal wounds is not lost. Instead keep allocating damage to another model in the target unit unitl either all the damage has been allocated or the target unit is destroyed."

I cannot find anywhere in that paragraph of the rules that suggests "Each mortal wound is always treated as a separate attack."

In fact, the paragraph seems to directly support that mortal wounds are damage and excess mortal wound damage is not *normally* lost. However savior protocol expressly states that you ignore all the normal damage from the attack, and allocate a single mortal wound instead.

Can you please reference a page number and quote?

I apologize in advance if I'm just missing it, and I appreciate the patience,

"Unlike normal attacks, excess damage from attacks that inflict mortal wounds is not lost. Instead keep allocating damage to another model in the target unit unitl either all the damage has been allocated or the target unit is destroyed" The normal rules for wound allocation assume you allocate them one at a time.

The parts you're overlooking are here (emphasis mine):

Some attacks inflict mortal wounds - these are so powerful that no armor or force field can withstand their fury. Each mortal wound inflicts one point of damage on the target unit. Do not make a wound roll or saving throw (including inv saves) against a mortal wound - just allocate it as you would any other wound and inflict damage to a model in the target unit as described above. Unlike normal attacks, excess damage from attacks that inflict mortal wounds is not lost. Instead keep allocating damage to another model in the target unit until either all the damage has been allocated or the target unit is destroyed.

Each mortal wound inflicts one point of damage on the target UNIT and then you allocate each wound to a model in the unit. So its clear that each mortal wound is allocated separately, not like other types of attacks which are able to inflict multiple points of damage based off a single wound.

So in the case of your Tau Supremacy Railgun example, each standard wound caused by the weapon could be re-allocated to a Tau Drone unit using Savior Protocols (and would turn into a single mortal wound), but each mortal wound caused by the Supremacy Railgun is allocated separately, and therefore each one would be re-allocated separately using Savior Protocls (with each mortal wound turning into a mortal wound on the Drone unit).

@yakface,

Thank you for the explanation. However, it seems like your argument only supports my understanding, it doesn't disagree with it at all.

To attack, you pick a target unit(s).
To shoot you roll to hit based on your own skill.
To wound, you roll vs. the target units toughness.
The owning player now allocates the damage to a model, per wounding hit, and rolls to save.
Damage is applied to a model until it is dead or no more damage to apply.
Normal damage doesn't carry through.

Mortal wounds don't roll to wound, they in effect auto wound.
You apply damage to the unit in the exact same way, all to one model first, as the rule states.
Where it becomes different, is that excess wounds will carry through.

However, this is all still DAMAGE from the hit... nowhere does it say these are additional attacks or additional hits... it's just damage. The mortal wound rule even says "some attacks inflict mortal wounds", this is clearly saying that mortal wounds are damage, not hits. It even says, you allocate the damage just the same as you would any other wound... and inflict DAMAGE to a model in the target unit as described above (i.e. normal wounding procedure.)

It seems as written, Mortal Wounds are just damage you don't roll to wound for, and that carry through instead of stopping on a model once applied.

To that end, Savior Protocols state that you ignore all the damage, and replace it with a single mortal wound instead.

Seems terribly simple and straight forward.

Q. Can Quantum Shielding be used to prevent damage caused
by mortal wounds?
A. No. Mortal wounds are inflicted one at a time, and
as quantum shielding can never prevent a single point
of damage from being suffered, it cannot prevent
mortal wounds.

With respect, that's answering a completely different question. How or whether you apply the damage to quantum shielding is simply, different. Yet - it is still damage.

Savior Protocols still replace all of the damage from the hit... So... seems clear and I agree with you, Quantum Shielding is different.

Savior protocols transfer one suffered wound at a time, correct?

Once the wound is unsaved, it is allocated to the drone, then move to the next wound.

A single 'attack' (say, a devastator squad with 4 lascannons) can do multiple 'wounds' and each 'wound' can do mutliple damage.

The drones intercept the 'wounds' but not the entire attack. 4 Lascannons would inflict (if they all hit and wound and all saves are failed) 4 Wounds, and kill 4 drones.

Similarly, smite inflicts d3 unsaved Wounds (since it ignores rolls to hit, rolls to wound, and saves), and would kill d3 Drones.

A single drone does not absorb a whole attack; rather, it absorbs a whole wound, regardless of the damage value after the wound.

 Tactica wrote:
It seems as written, Mortal Wounds are just damage you don't roll to wound for, and that carry through instead of stopping on a model once applied.

This is where you're wrong. Mortal Wounds replace step 2 of the 'Resolve Attacks' process. You still allocate the Mortal Wound just as you would a Wound.

 Tactica wrote:
With respect, that's answering a completely different question. How or whether you apply the damage to quantum shielding is simply, different. Yet - it is still damage.

Savior Protocols still replace all of the damage from the hit... So... seems clear and I agree with you, Quantum Shielding is different.

Fragile's point was (backed up by Yakface's posting of the MW rules above) "Mortal wounds are inflicted one at a time" from the answer tells you that a Drone cannot absorb D3 Mortal Wounds in one go.

 Tactica wrote:
@yakface,

Thank you for the explanation. However, it seems like your argument only supports my understanding, it doesn't disagree with it at all.

To attack, you pick a target unit(s).
To shoot you roll to hit based on your own skill.
To wound, you roll vs. the target units toughness.
The owning player now allocates the damage to a model, per wounding hit, and rolls to save.
Damage is applied to a model until it is dead or no more damage to apply.
Normal damage doesn't carry through.

Mortal wounds don't roll to wound, they in effect auto wound.
You apply damage to the unit in the exact same way, all to one model first, as the rule states.
Where it becomes different, is that excess wounds will carry through.

However, this is all still DAMAGE from the hit... nowhere does it say these are additional attacks or additional hits... it's just damage. The mortal wound rule even says "some attacks inflict mortal wounds", this is clearly saying that mortal wounds are damage, not hits. It even says, you allocate the damage just the same as you would any other wound... and inflict DAMAGE to a model in the target unit as described above (i.e. normal wounding procedure.)

It seems as written, Mortal Wounds are just damage you don't roll to wound for, and that carry through instead of stopping on a model once applied.

To that end, Savior Protocols state that you ignore all the damage, and replace it with a single mortal wound instead.

Seems terribly simple and straight forward.

It's not mortal damage. It mortal wounds. You roll 4 hits. You roll 2 wounds. Each wound would apply 3 damage. You allocate the first wound, you have a drone take it. It becomes a single a mortal wound. Drone dies. You allocate the second wound. No more drones. 3 damage is applied to a single model.

You cast smite. You do 3 mortal wounds. Each mortal wound does not need to be rolled for it wounds automatically. Each mortal wound deals 1 damage. You apply the first mortal wound. You have the drone take it. It becomes a single mortal wound. You apply the next mortal wound... etc etc...




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tactica wrote:
With respect, that's answering a completely different question. How or whether you apply the damage to quantum shielding is simply, different. Yet - it is still damage.

Savior Protocols still replace all of the damage from the hit... So... seems clear and I agree with you, Quantum Shielding is different.

No. Wrong. It's answering the exact same question. Quantum shielding kicks in to absorb all the the damage from a single shot/swing/attack. If a gun fires 3 times and wounds 3 times and each wound deals 4 damage then quantum shielding needs to be rolled 3 times.

By your argument smite would be dealing d6 damage, so as long as smite deals more than 1 mortal wound quantum shielding would be able to kick in. But it can't. Because mortal wounds are not themselves damage. They deal 1 damage each. Mortal Wounds are a variation on wounds. The second step of the process. Not the 3rd.

So here are the 2 arguments

Argument 1 - Smite's "d3" is transferred, then Mortal Wounds are decided

Argument 2 - Smite is resolved, Mortal Wounds are decided, each Mortal Wound becomes a new different damage, then it is transferred.

 Talamare wrote:
So here are the 2 arguments

Argument 1 - Smite's "d3" is transferred, then Mortal Wounds are decided

Argument 2 - Smite is resolved, Mortal Wounds are decided, each Mortal Wound becomes a new different damage, then it is transferred.

Both the wording of the mortal wounds rules in the rulebook and the quantum shielding ruling in the FAQ make argument #1 completely invalid.

how does this work in a similar situation such as tyrant guard? do you roll for damage first then apply, or do the guard "intercept" the hit then roll for damage?
.

peirceg wrote:
how does this work in a similar situation such as tyrant guard? do you roll for damage first then apply, or do the guard "intercept" the hit then roll for damage?
.

You don't roll damage. You allocate the wound to unit/character. They roll their save. The unsaved wound can then be intercepted by the protector.

You have x number of mortal wounds. So you allocate a (read 1) MW to a unit/character... They cannot save, it's a mortal wound. The unsaved wound can be intercepted by the protector.

does that mean that a tyrant guard can only suffer 1 mortal wound? wow!

No, their rule is worded differently - "each time Hive Tyrant loses a wound" rather than "wounding hit". So a Tyrant Guard tanks each wound separately. A multi-wound hit would need to be tanked a wound at a time, not one MW for the whole attack.

As much as we like patterns, the bespoke nature of 8th unit rules means you must treat each separately

 JohnnyHell wrote:
No, their rule is worded differently - "each time Hive Tyrant loses a wound" rather than "wounding hit". So a Tyrant Guard tanks each wound separately. A multi-wound hit would need to be tanked a wound at a time, not one MW for the whole attack.

As much as we like patterns, the bespoke nature of 8th unit rules means you must treat each separately

This is true. But also stupid and probably a typo. Drones used to work the same way until they got FAQed to be in line with the other protector units. Regardless. Each MW is it's own "wound" that must be intercepted separately.

 Lance845 wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
No, their rule is worded differently - "each time Hive Tyrant loses a wound" rather than "wounding hit". So a Tyrant Guard tanks each wound separately. A multi-wound hit would need to be tanked a wound at a time, not one MW for the whole attack.

As much as we like patterns, the bespoke nature of 8th unit rules means you must treat each separately

This is true. But also stupid and probably a typo. Drones used to work the same way until they got FAQed to be in line with the other protector units. Regardless. Each MW is it's own "wound" that must be intercepted separately.

Are you saying it's intended to work the same?

I actually think it's worded different because Tyrant Guard are protecting MC's that are normally targetable all the time, as opposed to Commander Suits who are somewhat protected by the Character Rule.

 Lance845 wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
No, their rule is worded differently - "each time Hive Tyrant loses a wound" rather than "wounding hit". So a Tyrant Guard tanks each wound separately. A multi-wound hit would need to be tanked a wound at a time, not one MW for the whole attack.

As much as we like patterns, the bespoke nature of 8th unit rules means you must treat each separately

This is true. But also stupid and probably a typo. Drones used to work the same way until they got FAQed to be in line with the other protector units. Regardless. Each MW is it's own "wound" that must be intercepted separately.

You might be confusing the Bodyguard Rules with the Saviour Protocol

Bodyguard is pretty standard across every faction, it happens AFTER FNP occurs.
Meaning you would get your normal Armor and FNP, as well as another FNP belonging to the Bodyguard

Saviour Protocol is incredibly unique, and happens BEFORE Armor saves
Which is why it was weird when it became a true mortal wound, but now Shield Drones have a 5+ FNP

 Talamare wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
No, their rule is worded differently - "each time Hive Tyrant loses a wound" rather than "wounding hit". So a Tyrant Guard tanks each wound separately. A multi-wound hit would need to be tanked a wound at a time, not one MW for the whole attack.

As much as we like patterns, the bespoke nature of 8th unit rules means you must treat each separately

This is true. But also stupid and probably a typo. Drones used to work the same way until they got FAQed to be in line with the other protector units. Regardless. Each MW is it's own "wound" that must be intercepted separately.

You might be confusing the Bodyguard Rules with the Saviour Protocol

Bodyguard is pretty standard across every faction, it happens AFTER FNP occurs.
Meaning you would get your normal Armor and FNP, as well as another FNP belonging to the Bodyguard

Saviour Protocol is incredibly unique, and happens BEFORE Armor saves
Which is why it was weird when it became a true mortal wound, but now Shield Drones have a 5+ FNP

Yup. My bad on that. All these rules and they keep getting FAQed. I was running off memory and mixed it up.

But on the main topic, none of that changes how Mortal Wounds are treated.