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A major topic on the Tactics sub-forum is how to deal with armies capable of First Turn Shooting Phase Alpha Strike.

For people asking what the 8th Edition meta is, IMO First Turn Shooting Phase Alpha Strike is a decent part of the current meta.

I'm wondering, though, what about the other side of the coin? What armies have a decent shot at pulling off a First Turn Assault?

A Space Marines army can go 100% Jump Packs, deploy in the sky, go first because that had zero drops, then Deep Strike the whole army. They have to land their Deep Strike 9 inches away from enemy units. What are the odds some units get into Assault? Rolling 9 or better on 2d6 is 2:1 against, or 33%.

What about Terminators?

What about 'Nids or Eldar? What about Da Boyz?

no army can fully null deploy in 8th. 50% of units need to be on the ground. Deploying in reserve still counts as a drop as well.

Raven Guard and Gene stealer cults have the ability to pull off a turn one assault. Some units..but not the whole army

Literally any army can T1 assault.

Black Templar are the best bet for it. Your Vanguard, Terminators, and Reivers can make the Deep Strike charge about 49% of the time. That's barely less than half. You also get the same benefit with using Asterion to do that as he gives that aura.

It's probably better to limit the search to armies that can do reliable turn one assaults; as in, armies that can get closer than the 9" deep strike allows.

CSM is one, thanks to warptime. Tyranids are another due to the Swarmlord.

The difference is that shooting doesn't fail 50% of the time and can't be reliably countered. And with how terrain and los work now, i'd say it's even not viable to even try to counter shooting with anything other than listbuilding. Whereas you can have a couple chaff squads and terrain nullify dangers of 1-st turn assault.

Alpha legion, and Nids, Both GSC, and Nids can toss a Lot of stuff up front so some will get into contact. But it seems like most anyone can DS these days.

phydaux wrote:

A Space Marines army can go 100% Jump Packs, deploy in the sky, go first because that had zero drops, then Deep Strike the whole army.

That's not how deployment works. When alternating unit deployment you still have to deploy each unit in turn, whether it's on the board or in reserves. A Space Marine army could still have more deployments to make than say an Imperial Knight army and not go first, even if they did all go in reserve (which they can't anyway).

Given that the scenario I played last night (from the card deck) had deployment zones that met at a point in the centre of the board, anything could have charged in turn 1, if we'd been daft enough to set up like that.

Arachnofiend wrote:
It's probably better to limit the search to armies that can do reliable turn one assaults; as in, armies that can get closer than the 9" deep strike allows.

CSM is one, thanks to warptime. Tyranids are another due to the Swarmlord.

Without powers, Genestealers can gain some massive distance across the board.

Arachnofiend wrote:
It's probably better to limit the search to armies that can do reliable turn one assaults; as in, armies that can get closer than the 9" deep strike allows.

CSM is one, thanks to warptime. Tyranids are another due to the Swarmlord.

When the new codex for chaos drops, Chaos Renegade factions will also be a fairly reliable charge engine as they can advance and still charge.

Arachnofiend wrote:
It's probably better to limit the search to armies that can do reliable turn one assaults; as in, armies that can get closer than the 9" deep strike allows.

CSM is one, thanks to warptime. Tyranids are another due to the Swarmlord.

How can you assault turn 1 with warptime?

Deepstrike unit + sorceror, then cast warptime on unit to make them move forward and get even closer for almost auto charge.

Or just warptime on a demon prince, so he can fly twice in one turn.

 Kaime wrote:
Deepstrike unit + sorceror, then cast warptime on unit to make them move forward and get even closer for almost auto charge.

Or just warptime on a demon prince, so he can fly twice in one turn.

So.... how do you deepstrike the sorcerer? And how would the sorcerer keep up with the daemon prince? I am not saying that it can't be done, I am just curious about the details. I am facing lots of CSM players where I am.

Terminator sorceror gets to teleport too.

Demon prince himself can use the spell on himself.

pismakron wrote:

 Kaime wrote:
Deepstrike unit + sorceror, then cast warptime on unit to make them move forward and get even closer for almost auto charge.

Or just warptime on a demon prince, so he can fly twice in one turn.

So.... how do you deepstrike the sorcerer? And how would the sorcerer keep up with the daemon prince? I am not saying that it can't be done, I am just curious about the details. I am facing lots of CSM players where I am.

Terminator Sorc, Bike Sorc, Sorc on Slaanesh Steed or Tzeentch Disc and a non-khorne DP can cast the spell themselves.

Necrons can reliably do it, its just hilariously points inefficient. Like most of the index.

phydaux wrote:
A major topic on the Tactics sub-forum is how to deal with armies capable of First Turn Shooting Phase Alpha Strike.

For people asking what the 8th Edition meta is, IMO First Turn Shooting Phase Alpha Strike is a decent part of the current meta.

I'm wondering, though, what about the other side of the coin? What armies have a decent shot at pulling off a First Turn Assault?

A Space Marines army can go 100% Jump Packs, deploy in the sky, go first because that had zero drops, then Deep Strike the whole army. They have to land their Deep Strike 9 inches away from enemy units. What are the odds some units get into Assault? Rolling 9 or better on 2d6 is 2:1 against, or 33%.

What about Terminators?

What about 'Nids or Eldar? What about Da Boyz?

That's wrong on two fronts. One, you can't deploy more than 50% of your units in deep strike. Two, deploying a unit in the sky is a drop. it's very easy to out-drop an army that doesn't have transports.

Orks can do it with Da Jump. You can set it up so the Weirdboy literally cannot fail the psychic test (though his brains might explode), teleport 30 juicy boyz to 9" of the target, and then get to re-roll the charge.

Harlequin skyweavers have a good shot too. 16" move, 6" advance and then 2D6 charge. Average 29" charge range.

Celestine can do it herself.

Guard can toss people out of Valkyries; probably not the world's best plan unless they're Bullgryn, but it's an option!

The question you have to ask is, what can you achieve with a T1 assault?

Melee causes less disruption in 8th than it did in 7th as units can just withdraw. If you assault with a handful of units, the enemy will likely withdraw from combat and the rest of their army will then shoot your attackers while they are unsupported.

 bullyboy wrote:
Harlequin skyweavers have a good shot too. 16" move, 6" advance and then 2D6 charge. Average 29" charge range.

Yeah and no gimics required. You didn't even factor their double move power. Harlequins are basically stock equip to turn 1 charge though.

 Karhedron wrote:
The question you have to ask is, what can you achieve with a T1 assault?

Melee causes less disruption in 8th than it did in 7th as units can just withdraw. If you assault with a handful of units, the enemy will likely withdraw from combat and the rest of their army will then shoot your attackers while they are unsupported.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This guy gets it.

Against an increasing number of factions, assault is only distinct in shooting in that when shooting, you get much greater control over where your models are placed on the table, and in shooting your opponent doesn't get to shoot back at you for free. Oh and there isn't a pre-hit roll to determine whether all your shots miss because your soldiers might, I don't know, fall asleep or something. And flyers aren't usually immune to it. And only characters can be blocked by chaff, not everyone.

Given that it has the same effect on morale, unless GW overcompensates like they did in 7th with wulfen and the like and creates some crazy bonkers melee units that can just table armies effortlessly with massive points efficient damage, I doubt we'll see tons of melee as an overarching strategy that competitive armies use. With cover no longer being a thing, shooting is just too good with too few tradeoffs.

Genestealers combined with the Swarmlord make for a ridiculous threat range, moving between 20-30 inches (depending on your advance rolls) and still being able to charge

 Karhedron wrote:
The question you have to ask is, what can you achieve with a T1 assault?

Melee causes less disruption in 8th than it did in 7th as units can just withdraw. If you assault with a handful of units, the enemy will likely withdraw from combat and the rest of their army will then shoot your attackers while they are unsupported.

Very true. I'll usually only assault with my Genestealers/Swarmlord if there's a high priority target for them to take out before it can fire, or if the terrain will shelter them from the majority of reprisals.

The fact that Fall Back is (essentially) consequence free, you either have to magically surround them (which is doable with the pile in and consolidate but not easy) and hope they can't FLY.

A turn 1 deep strike assault is good if your opponent left him/herself wide open for it. People have adapted to it, though. In my experience, it's rarely a wise move. The way to go is with units that can make it all the way across the board with their normal movement. For instance, Celestine is a fantastic turn 1 charge, since she has a 24" move. That's usually enough to get a very reliable charge.

There are a few instances where i'll sell out to kill something.

For instance, if i'm facing heretics / daemons, and I see Magnus. He must die turn 1, or he'll be warp timing around the board, wrecking flyers and smiting whole units off the board. The cost of not killing him is just astronomical.

I turn one assaulted with some deathwing knights. It was brutal, took out a fully loaded laz pred and then cleaned out some bikes.

I always try to get my scout sentinels into combat. 9" Scout move. 9" move. And a charge.

They just want to run up and touch something. Shooty troops. A big tank, whatever.