Spartan Games company closure - sold to Warcradle

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**lord_blackfang**

SeanDrake wrote:

2. The list of 15k customers

The scummyness continues.

This sort of gak would land them a 12.000 euro fine in Slovenia. Perhaps the only area where our law is way ahead of the rest of the world.

**Overread**

Actually chances are its not Spartans choice on what gets sold. It's in the hands of whoever is overseeing the closure and they will itemise and break it down and use ANY assets the company has to make a profit.

So yes they'd sell the customer list; its an asset like any other. They also won't care who buys it either so long as they pay. It's situations like this where you can end up with rights or IP or such owned by organisations well outside of the franchise.

For example computer game IP and rights have oft ended up held by legal firms or other companies who bought in when the companies closed (its seen way more in computer games because its far more common for companies to fold and close). Breaking up the IP and content is also common; its why, again, you can see parts of things held by different groups after a company goes bust.

Again this isn't Spartan selling it; its the process of the company going bust. So long as its legal to sell in the UK they'll sell it.

**silent25**

SeanDrake wrote:
So there selling Rebel Publishing(Spartan) in a number of parts.

1. The name and and associated logos.

2. The list of 15k customers

3. Assorted Spartan brand merchandise and gaming tables and miscellaneous.

4. The Dystopian Wars game, moulds and all other associated items including existing stock.

5. The Dystopian Legions game, moulds and all other associated items including existing stock

6. The firestorm armarda range including planet fall and strike, moulds production files and all existing stock.

7. Spartan Scenics range and all existing stock.

If I am honest I really am not happy about item 2 but might put a cheeky offer on 6 and 7.

Why not #2 also? Then when playing someone in an old Spartan game, you can look at them and say, "I know where you live!".

But selling the data isn't necessarily Spartan's fault. Its property and gets sold like everything else. Issues with a number of customer data sales have occurred with bankrupt companies. When they declare bankruptcy, any privacy policy they may have had in effect goes out the window.

**Charax**

Shame about the Halo stock - it's not unexpected that the licenses would revert to their respective owners, but all that stock just wiped out...

I knew Ground Command was a stupid buy...

**Ir0njack**

I hope someone picks up #6 and releases the models that never made it to production or had gotten the axe, here was some really good stuff. Heck I'd put a offer on it if I wasn't sure it would be out of my range.

**Tamereth**

#1 seems like a poisoned chalice, surely anyone looking to take on the games going forward would want to do so under a new banner.

#2 is scummy, but typical of modern business's

#4 is the important one for me, If I win the lottery this week I'll make a bid, but otherwise is probably beyond my means.

#5 would be very weird if this didn't end up with the same holders as #4, if anything I'd expect this one to be left to die while the main game carries on.

The Halo games dying is sad, I have a large collection of fleet battles stuff. I'd really like a second of CAS and autumn class cruiser but the chance of ever seeing one on ebay for a reasonable price seems slim. More depressing is the idea that we'll never get a model for the pillar of autumn or the infinity for the game. I know both existed at least digitally.

**Vertrucio**

Charax wrote:
Shame about the Halo stock - it's not unexpected that the licenses would revert to their respective owners, but all that stock just wiped out...

I knew Ground Command was a stupid buy...

Admittedly, Halo Ground Combat was in 15-18mm scale right? That'll fit in easily with a lot of 15mm scifi rules sets and miniatures, of varying level of space opera. So, not an entirely bad investment.

**Digclaw**

I'm just glad I never bought anything from them directly, but a friend of mine got me Dystopian Legions stuff for christmas a year or so back. I need to get him the heads up

**BrandonKF**

Someone mentioned over on Facebook group Dystopian Wars and Legions this: "Well, the Administrators dealing with Spartan are now actively looking for bids. Not sure what else I can publically say at the moment. But I'm relatively happy so far."

So, there is some news that interested parties are possible to pick up what's left.

**Kid_Kyoto**

SeanDrake wrote:
So there selling Rebel Publishing(Spartan) in a number of parts.

1. The name and and associated logos.

2. The list of 15k customers

3. Assorted Spartan brand merchandise and gaming tables and miscellaneous.

4. The Dystopian Wars game, moulds and all other associated items including existing stock.

5. The Dystopian Legions game, moulds and all other associated items including existing stock

6. The firestorm armarda range including planet fall and strike, moulds production files and all existing stock.

7. Spartan Scenics range and all existing stock.

If I am honest I really am not happy about item 2 but might put a cheeky offer on 6 and 7.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and the Halo licences were terminated as soon as the insolvancy firm we're brought in. I emailed MS marketing department to enquire if the licence was available and if ownership of the moulds and rules had reverted to them or had been destroyed.

What's the source on this?

**SeanDrake**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
So there selling Rebel Publishing(Spartan) in a number of parts.

1. The name and and associated logos.

2. The list of 15k customers

3. Assorted Spartan brand merchandise and gaming tables and miscellaneous.

4. The Dystopian Wars game, moulds and all other associated items including existing stock.

5. The Dystopian Legions game, moulds and all other associated items including existing stock

6. The firestorm armarda range including planet fall and strike, moulds production files and all existing stock.

7. Spartan Scenics range and all existing stock.

If I am honest I really am not happy about item 2 but might put a cheeky offer on 6 and 7.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and the Halo licences were terminated as soon as the insolvancy firm we're brought in. I emailed MS marketing department to enquire if the licence was available and if ownership of the moulds and rules had reverted to them or had been destroyed.

What's the source on this?

I requested the information from the receivers.

The production equipment is being sold separately as well and on a tighter timescale. This combined with the splitting up of the range concerns me that one person is unlikely to get everything.

Awaiting more info on the production equipment will post when I get it if anyone is interested.

**Kid_Kyoto**

Thanks, sorry if that sounded rude, it was meant as a legit question.

**Overread**

Makes sense; equipment is likely bulky and requires removal from the rented worksite; so the company dealing with the sale won't want to hold onto that any longer than they hvae to because they'd be liable for the rent; so best to shed that material fast.

The IP is likely the more expensive so its worth finding a good buyer; and IP itself is basically diskdrives and data that's fairly easy to store - stock wise we aren't sure how much there is of that in bulk to store up but might well be less or just easier to store than the machines.

It's very unlikely that a single company will buy it all up; heck I doubt there's many that could buy up all the lines Spartan does and put them into serious production.

**Dark Severance**

Overread wrote:
Makes sense; equipment is likely bulky and requires removal from the rented worksite; so the company dealing with the sale won't want to hold onto that any longer than they hvae to because they'd be liable for the rent; so best to shed that material fast.

The IP is likely the more expensive so its worth finding a good buyer; and IP itself is basically diskdrives and data that's fairly easy to store - stock wise we aren't sure how much there is of that in bulk to store up but might well be less or just easier to store than the machines.

It is usually the reverse of this, equipment has more value than the actual IP.
It isn't unusual to separate equipment from other assets during these types things and historically equipment sells for top dollar. The equipment is a premium because it can be immediately used and has multiple uses, not something specific to an IP which means it has a more retainable value than the actual IP itself.

The IP can be worth more but the prospective interests in that vs equipment is much smaller. Simply buying a product line doesn't equate to making money, it is an investment and a large one that does require a lot more capital to actually utilized. There is rebranding, existing customer base may not care it is owned by another company (there will always be a conspiracy theory that they sold it to one of their people)... there are just so many things that can go wrong and affect the value of the IP.

**SeanDrake**

Yeah it mentions that the landlord wants it gone asap.

While I guess most ip stuff is electronic it states there are silicon and metal moulds as part of each line.

The equipment is apparently high end and only a few years old is expected to sell quick and for a high price.

The only reason the IP stuff is not going to sell for literally pennies is because there bundling the relevant existing stock in with it.

Also no worries about asking where I got the info from understand why. But if I sound short it is because I am looking after my 2yr old while typing this and working out how much I can offer.

Not sure what's going to happen but I sadly don't see a white knight coming to the rescue. Expect to see Dystopian and Scenics vanish after a glut of product being sold through.

Firestorm might make it but it depends on if anyone in the industry considers it worth the hassle otherwise some lucky loon like me might get it and try running it as a garage outfit.

**Dark Severance**

SeanDrake wrote:
The only reason the IP stuff is not going to sell for literally pennies is because there bundling the relevant existing stock in with it.

From what I'm being told the existing stock if very minimal. Ther are master and production moulds for both resin and metal casting. However stock is very low so anything that needs to be produced will need to be done so. Also, existing stock should technically be repackaged and rebranded, which is a low cost but anyone buying wouldn't want to be using Spartan packaging for what is going to be a new venture.

**UNCLEBADTOUCH**

Don't worry it's not like battlefront is trying to buy it

**griffen127**

Halo Ground Command was a very good game. I've been mini gaming for about 20 years. It was a very good game that could have been great. Such a terrible shame it's done. It's upsetting to me that Spartan could not have its vision realized. The really sad thing is it may have been a large reason the company folded. Neil should have delegate when he became ill.

**Johanxp**

I do agree. Ground Command had some very clever ideas and seemed a very nice game to play.
Very sorry for Spartan Games.

**NTRabbit**

Hey, Mantic could pick up a ready made set of minis for a Warpath fleet game, they'd only need to commission someone to write the rules

**Balance**

This may just be my opinion, but I kind of hope the IP gets split up. Let the Firestorm and Dystopian games diverge if they can find homes that are better to them.

**griffen127**

Can anyone explain to me why Halo is dead. I don't understand the legal aspect. What happens to the halo fleet/ ground figures, molds rules, in progress stats etc. I am sure there are people on here that can explain this stuff. Firefighting and para medicine didn't prepare me for bankruptcy law. Lol

**Dark Severance**

griffen127 wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why Halo is dead. I don't understand the legal aspect. What happens to the halo fleet/ ground figures, molds rules, in progress stats etc. I am sure there are people on here that can explain this stuff. Firefighting and para medicine didn't prepare me for bankruptcy law. Lol

Halo is an existing IP that isn't owned by Spartan Games. They basically licensed it from the owners (Microsoft) to be able to create the game which isn't uncommon. Once Spartan closed the doors (or even before then just depends on how the license terms) it reverted back to Microsoft. As it was announced in the paperwork:

"The business had expanded its range from that of in house created games to also include the production of a tabletop version of the video game Halo, under license from Microsoft. This license has not been terminated.".

All rights go back to microsoft. It really depends on the conditions of the terminations and the contract. Spartan can maintain the moulds and files, but be required to destroy or shred them. They may have also just simply had in the terms that it goes to Microsoft. Either way Microsoft isn't going to maintain it.. the point of licensing is so they don't have to handle the production (someone else takes the risk). Someone might be able to pick it up and utilize the existing stuff but rebrands typically take an initial loss because existing items people have, so they are waiting to see new or improved support. Either it is an infrastructure which Microsoft most likely would do, which means the game is dead.

**Mmmpi**

So, after the news broke, but before we found out that our KS stuff definitely wasn't going to be sent, I sent an email asking if my investment could be refunded in remaining stock. Basically I was trying to do an end run to getting what I had "already given money for". Today I received this email and linked document from Rebel Publishing:

Dear Sir,

Rebel Publishing Limited Trading As Spartan Games - in Administration

The Company records indicate that you have previously provided funding via a kickstarter campaign, accordingly, please find attached a letter in respect of the Administration of the above company.

Please note that in view of the current status of the company, if you have not yet received your products, there are no finished products available and no further products will be shipped.

Yours faithfully,

Jason Bevan

For T A Close

Administrator

Rebel Publishing Limited Trading as Spartan Games

e: jbevan@milsted-langdon.co.uk
w: www.milsted-langdon.co.uk
t: 01823 445566

Bath 01225 904940 | Bristol 0117 945 2500 | London 0203 150 1113 | Taunton 01823 445566 | Yeovil 01935 383500
Milsted Langdon is a trading name of Milsted Langdon LLP, a limited liability partnership registered in England with LLP number OC329479. The registered office of Milsted Langdon LLP is Winchester House, Deane Gate Avenue, Taunton, TA1 2UH. A list of the members of the LLP is available for inspection at the registered office.
MGI Worldwide is a network of independent audit, tax, accounting and consulting firms. MGI Worldwide does not provide any services and its member firms are not an international partnership. Each member firm is a separate entity and neither MGI Worldwide nor any member firm accepts responsibility for the activities, work, opinions or services of any other member firm. For more information visit www.mgiworld.com/legal
Information contained in this email is intended for the named recipient only. It may contain privileged and confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy, distribute, or take any action in reliance on it. Email attachments could contain viruses. Whilst Milsted Langdon takes reasonable steps to minimise risk, we recommend any attachments are virus checked before opening.
Mr T A Close, Mrs R Hotham, Mr R A Isaacs and Mr S A Rowe are licensed as insolvency practitioners in the UK by the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales. Where they are appointed as Administrator they act as agents of the company without personal liability. In such cases the affairs, business and property of the company are being managed by them as Administrators.

and the document they attached is here. (link goes to a copy in my Google Drive account)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5GcXTf7FNC9dWdGVE5uaUYydVk/view?usp=sharing

**ScarletRose**

Wow, that's harsh. But the attached letter seems to suggest you can maybe get the money by back by making a claim as a creditor?

**NTRabbit**

It suggests that, but in reality no creditors at our level will ever see any money returned, because the asset sales are unlikely to completely satisfy the major creditors at the start of the line, ie the bank that loaned them the money, and then anyone yet to be paid for goods or services like resin sellers, printers, etc, and then after that employees with outstanding wages.

**Overread**

Your best bet is to claim through your bank/card and then see if they'll refund you under those conditions; the bank then claims back off them. It's about the only possibility that you've got

**NTRabbit**

Which is also a non-starter for KS backers, because it funded December 22 last year, and as far as I'm aware it's rare for a bank to process chargebacks past 90 days.

KS backers are basically gak out of luck, unless someone steps in "The Doom that came to Atlantic City" style and fulfills the basic boxes and books, but skipping the extraneous stuff like personalised books, the busts, and some stretch goals.

Edit: Unless you were some kind of super backer who finalised at over 1000 pounds, then you get to join the queue as a major creditor ahead of the rest of us.

**Sheck2**

SeanDrake wrote:
So there selling Rebel Publishing(Spartan) in a number of parts.

2. The list of 15k customers

If I am honest I really am not happy about item 2

Why?

Customers are an asset. It is common in any corporate sale especially in services (not just bankruptcies). The accounts are the value. I can guarantee 'your account/information' has been legally sold by multiple companies you value and purchase from. Lastly, customer lists usually include DTC and BTB accounts. So the value may only be in a small percentage of the list.

**Formosa**

SeanDrake wrote:
So there selling Rebel Publishing(Spartan) in a number of parts.

1. The name and and associated logos.

2. The list of 15k customers

3. Assorted Spartan brand merchandise and gaming tables and miscellaneous.

4. The Dystopian Wars game, moulds and all other associated items including existing stock.

5. The Dystopian Legions game, moulds and all other associated items including existing stock

6. The firestorm armarda range including planet fall and strike, moulds production files and all existing stock.

7. Spartan Scenics range and all existing stock.

If I am honest I really am not happy about item 2 but might put a cheeky offer on 6 and 7.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and the Halo licences were terminated as soon as the insolvancy firm we're brought in. I emailed MS marketing department to enquire if the licence was available and if ownership of the moulds and rules had reverted to them or had been destroyed.

They are selling the list of customers or have I read that wrong?