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I always thought there is only Power Axe then found out there is also this thing called Power Maul

Power Axe Strength +1 AP-2
Power Maul Strength +2 AP-1

Would you prefer to by pass enemy's touchness with more Strength or by pass the sav with higher AP

Well you have a Marine, S4 base, Axe makes them S5 and the Maul makes them S6.

Now ask yourself what you are likely to face more of with your Power weapon wielding marine: MEQs or GEQs? Versus MEQs you are wounding on 3s with both weapons but MEQs get a better save against the Maul. But you wound GEQs on a 2+ with the Maul and still a 3+ with the axe.

If you want a Horde killer for chopping through Guard and Eldar troops with ease, take the Maul, but if you want to take on Orks and Marines then the Axe is a better bet.

darrekbaal wrote:
I always thought there is only Power Axe then found out there is also this thing called Power Maul

Power Axe Strength +1 AP-2
Power Maul Strength +2 AP-1

Would you prefer to by pass enemy's touchness with more Strength or by pass the sav with higher AP

Generally, the Axe will be better. Especially on Marines as it boosts them to STR 5, thus wounding all T4 models such as Orks and other Marines on 3's and going up to 5's to wound on T8. Going to STR 6 with the Maul will allow wounding bikes on 3's, but isn't worth losing a point of AP on everything else.

I can see a use for Mauls on Guardsmen because of their default STR 3 so getting to STR 5 will give them a decent chance to wound T4 infantry, but that's about it.

I prefer the sword honestly.

 mrhappyface wrote:
Well you have a Marine, S4 base, Axe makes them S5 and the Maul makes them S6.

Now ask yourself what you are likely to face more of with your Power weapon wielding marine: MEQs or GEQs? Versus MEQs you are wounding on 3s with both weapons but MEQs get a better save against the Maul. But you wound GEQs on a 2+ with the Maul and still a 3+ with the axe.

If you want a Horde killer for chopping through Guard and Eldar troops with ease, take the Maul, but if you want to take on Orks and Marines then the Axe is a better bet.

This would be correct.

with those two options it really all depends on your target.

St6 really only benifits attacking T3 models and ususally T3 models come with a 5+ 4+ at best.

For Guardsmen I think maul is best, but I haven't seen any math to prove it. The sword might be just as good because though you wound less, when you do wound it's almost guaranteed to go through.

broxus wrote:
I prefer the sword honestly.

The AP-3 is huge if the bearerl has S5, otherwise I'd go with the axe. With SWs I prefer frost swords over frost axes since the majority of infantry models are T4 and against them S5 or S6 is exactly the same but a better AP is not. And swords are cheaper than axes/mauls.

If you use normal power weapons on S4 models I'd go with the axe, wounding on 3s is better than an additional -1AP since you should hit t-shirt saves enemies very frequently.

Using the power of SCIENCE we can see it depends on whether the Toughness of the target matches or exceeds your base strength.

https://prnt.sc/g8ww39

https://prnt.sc/g8ww6s

Assuming a MEQ is swinging it, vs T5 the Maul is better but 6 and above the better AP actually results in more wounds.

My rule of thumb is to get to str 5 with the best AP. So generally that's going to be the axe. If you have another method to get +1 strength, blood angel sanguinary priests, for example, then swords become better.

with the way the new wound chart is, str 6 and 7 are nearly equal to str 5 in most cases, so i'd never bother with mauls in the current edition. They have lower AP and a strength characteristic that usually will be no better than 5.

bobafett012 wrote:
My rule of thumb is to get to str 5 with the best AP. So generally that's going to be the axe. If you have another method to get +1 strength, blood angel sanguinary priests, for example, then swords become better.

with the way the new wound chart is, str 6 and 7 are nearly equal to str 5 in most cases, so i'd never bother with mauls in the current edition. They have lower AP and a strength characteristic that usually will be no better than 5.

Well they all have their places when it comes to the most common toughnesses: 3, 4, 7 and 8.
S1/2 are crap.

S3 wounds T3 on 4s.

S4 wounds T3 on 3s, T4 on 4s and T7 on 5s.

S5 wounds T4 on 3s and T8 on 5s.

S6 wounds T3 on 2s.

S7 wounds T7 on 4s.

S8 wounds T4 on 2s, T7 on 3s and T8 on 4s.

S9 wounds T8 on 3s.

They all do something different for the points step up.

 mrhappyface wrote:

bobafett012 wrote:
My rule of thumb is to get to str 5 with the best AP. So generally that's going to be the axe. If you have another method to get +1 strength, blood angel sanguinary priests, for example, then swords become better.

with the way the new wound chart is, str 6 and 7 are nearly equal to str 5 in most cases, so i'd never bother with mauls in the current edition. They have lower AP and a strength characteristic that usually will be no better than 5.

Well they all have their places when it comes to the most common toughnesses: 3, 4, 7 and 8.
S1/2 are crap.

S3 wounds T3 on 4s.

S4 wounds T3 on 3s, T4 on 4s and T7 on 5s.

S5 wounds T4 on 3s and T8 on 5s.

S6 wounds T3 on 2s.

S7 wounds T7 on 4s.

S8 wounds T4 on 2s, T7 on 3s and T8 on 4s.

S9 wounds T8 on 3s.

They all do something different for the points step up.

But the most common toughness is 4. A majority of people play some form of marines, be it chaos, imperial marines, grey knights among many other armies that have T4 such as orks etc. So when a discussion is what's best, you have to look at what your going to come up against the most. I suppose if your personal meta is something off the wall, then your weapon of choice may be different, but if it's like dozens of stores/tournaments i've played at since 2nd edition, MEQ is what your going to face most of the time. This makes axes the best, and swords a close 2nd if you can get to str 5. If your equipping mauls to deal with multi-wound, and/or higher toughness targets, then your doing something wrong. IMO, your options are sword, axe, or fist/chainfist/thunder hammer. Mauls are still in a bad place and not worth taking, even more so when you compare the points for each weapon.

bobafett012 wrote:

The most common of toughness is 4. A majority of people play some form of marines, be it chaos, imperial marines, grey knights among many other armies that have T4 such as orks etc. So when a discussion is what's best, you have to look at what your going to come up against the most. I suppose if your personal meta is something off the wall, then your weapon of choice may be different, but if it's like dozens of stores/tournaments i've played at since 2nd edition, MEQ is what your going to face most of the time. This makes axes the best, and swords a close 2nd if you can get to str 5. If your equipping mauls to deal with multi-wound, and/or higher toughness targets, then your doing something wrong. IMO, your options are sword, axe, or fist/chainfist/thunder hammer. Mauls are still in a bad place and not worth taking, even more so when you compare the points for each weapon.

Most common depends on where you play.

the current consistent top list right now would be imperial guard which are T3.

if your meta has a bunch of eldar, tau type players then T3 would be more common.

personally we have a butt load of marines so T4

and such.

(but yeah marines are pretty damn common.)

bobafett012 wrote:
The most common of toughness is 4. A majority of people play some form of marines, be it chaos, imperial marines, grey knights among many other armies that have T4 such as orks etc. So when a discussion is what's best, you have to look at what your going to come up against the most. I suppose if your personal meta is something off the wall, then your weapon of choice may be different, but if it's like dozens of stores/tournaments i've played at since 2nd edition, MEQ is what your going to face most of the time. This makes axes the best, and swords a close 2nd if you can get to str 5. If your equipping mauls to deal with multi-wound, and/or higher toughness targets, then your doing something wrong. IMO, your options are sword, axe, or fist/chainfist/thunder hammer. Mauls are still in a bad place and not worth taking, even more so when you compare the points for each weapon.

I've been in a meta for several years now where I was the only CSM player and there was only one space marine player, everyone else played Orks, Eldar, Tau, Necrons, Guard, Daemons, etc. Lots of T3 infantry, lots of T7 vehicles. There is a certain animosity against the Imperium around here, even the Guard player isn't particularly pro Imperium. Though the Blood Angel player (the one SM player) and out local Knight player are very pro Imperium.

All depends on your meta. And Tournaments? Don't see many baseline, T4 Marines in competitive tournaments.

 mrhappyface wrote:

bobafett012 wrote:
The most common of toughness is 4. A majority of people play some form of marines, be it chaos, imperial marines, grey knights among many other armies that have T4 such as orks etc. So when a discussion is what's best, you have to look at what your going to come up against the most. I suppose if your personal meta is something off the wall, then your weapon of choice may be different, but if it's like dozens of stores/tournaments i've played at since 2nd edition, MEQ is what your going to face most of the time. This makes axes the best, and swords a close 2nd if you can get to str 5. If your equipping mauls to deal with multi-wound, and/or higher toughness targets, then your doing something wrong. IMO, your options are sword, axe, or fist/chainfist/thunder hammer. Mauls are still in a bad place and not worth taking, even more so when you compare the points for each weapon.

I've been in a meta for several years now where I was the only CSM player and there was only one space marine player, everyone else played Orks, Eldar, Tau, Necrons, Guard, Daemons, etc. Lots of T3 infantry, lots of T7 vehicles. There is a certain animosity against the Imperium around here, even the Guard player isn't particularly pro Imperium. Though the Blood Angel player (the one SM player) and out local Knight player are very pro Imperium.

All depends on your meta. And Tournaments? Don't see many baseline, T4 Marines in competitive tournaments.

Which is much more likely the exception than the rule no?

This is just my opinion, but the main reason we haven't seen a ton of T4 marines in combat, we have seen lots of marines, but many were the flyer spam lists which prompted the change in objective holding rules, so I suspect we'll start to see more gunline SM armies. Blood of kittens has a tournament article up:

"Below is the current breakdown of what armies are winning events. The list combines all the top lists for 8th edition 2017 ITC season events only, taking only the top three from each Major or GT.
6 Ultramarines
4 Astra Militarum
3 Ynnari
2 Orks
1 T’au Empire
1 Blood Angels
1 Space Marines"

There's a lot of T4 armies in there, granted 3 or so of the marine lists were flyer spam, but like I said I think they will be swapping over, plus with the new chaos book out, your likely to see them start popping up there and they are T4.
As I said in previous posts, it's can be dependent on your meta but a majority of the time, the axe is where your going to want to be at.

The maul is better against

T3 things with bad saves (4+ is tied with axes)
T5 things with not good saves (3+ is the break even point)
T6 with anything but a 2+ (where they tie axes)
And anything T10.

That’s a pretty tight niche of targets. Cashing out mooks, and tough things with crap armor.

The other thing they do well against is things with invuln saves that are close to their armor saves. Why pay for the AP if you don’t get to use it? Better off just spamming wounds.

IMHO axes are a touch better the swords, but close enough that I’ll let the rule of cool dictate what a model looks best with. Mauls are quite a bit behind the curve, and should be taken only with forewarning that they will probably underperform. They have a niche, but probably not worth building for unless you have a good grasp of the meta and want to play that game.