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 Formosa wrote:
hopefully they get rid of those terrible protocals, or make them a ld test like in 30k, as right now they are excellent abilities for no downside.

Do you mean the ones for the Robots? Because they have downsides and require a test, which requires another model that takes an entire elite slot. So...

Does 14 units including Cawl (plus whatever they intend on doing for Knights) really justify the need for a whole codex? I'm starting to jump onto the whole admech hype train, but I don't need a $60 book just for that. Especially if I want to run a variety of Imperial forces. At this rate, I'd have to carry 6 (hardback... seriously, GW?) codices around just to play my Imperial army.

I'm thinking GW kind of missed the point of the fresh start that 8th edition provided...

 Fafnir wrote:
Does 14 units including Cawl (plus whatever they intend on doing for Knights) really justify the need for a whole codex? I'm starting to jump onto the whole admech hype train, but I don't need a $60 book just for that. Especially if I want to run a variety of Imperial forces. At this rate, I'd have to carry 6 (hardback... seriously, GW?) codices around just to play my Imperial army.

I'm thinking GW kind of missed the point of the fresh start that 8th edition provided...

It would meet my minimum criteria unlike with the pair of previously crowbarred apart mechanicus books. That's at least two choices for each unit type plus some specials that are all thematically linked... and we're not just talking about a few tiny variant bits turning the same plastic kit into a "different" unit. YMMV.

While I vehemently oppose making players this early on in the edition lug/use multiple books to have a single themed army (like two books for classic IG because you need AM and whatever the feth they renamed stormtroopers into to sell separately)... if you're carrying six books at this point for your Imperial Army then frankly it's your own fault for cramming everything and the kitchen sink into the same "imperium" keyword force. No one is forcing you to boil down an entire billion man multifaceted imperial crusade into a 2000pt force with elements from so many armies that were previously completely seperate in prior editions.

 warboss wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
Does 14 units including Cawl (plus whatever they intend on doing for Knights) really justify the need for a whole codex? I'm starting to jump onto the whole admech hype train, but I don't need a $60 book just for that. Especially if I want to run a variety of Imperial forces. At this rate, I'd have to carry 6 (hardback... seriously, GW?) codices around just to play my Imperial army.

I'm thinking GW kind of missed the point of the fresh start that 8th edition provided...

It would meet my minimum criteria unlike with the pair of previously crowbarred apart mechanicus books. That's at least two choices for each unit type plus some specials that are all thematically linked... and we're not just talking about a few tiny variant bits turning the same plastic kit into a "different" unit. YMMV.

While I vehemently oppose making players this early on in the edition lug/use multiple books to have a single themed army (like two books for classic IG because you need AM and whatever the feth they renamed stormtroopers into to sell separately)... if you're carrying six books at this point for your Imperial Army then frankly it's your own fault for cramming everything and the kitchen sink into the same "imperium" keyword force. No one is forcing you to boil down an entire billion man multifaceted imperial crusade into a 2000pt force with elements from so many armies that were previously completely seperate in prior editions.

Inquisition, respective chamber militants, assassins, and stormtroopers used to all be in one book, all the way back in 3rd edition. Then there was the Imperial Agents book at the end of 8th, which, as bad as it was, really doubled down on that whole 'Imperial soup' idea. No one's forcing me to, but for a long time it had been encouraged for my Inquisitor to draw his resources from a wide web of influence.

 Fafnir wrote:
Does 14 units including Cawl (plus whatever they intend on doing for Knights) really justify the need for a whole codex? I'm starting to jump onto the whole admech hype train, but I don't need a $60 book just for that. Especially if I want to run a variety of Imperial forces. At this rate, I'd have to carry 6 (hardback... seriously, GW?) codices around just to play my Imperial army.

I'm thinking GW kind of missed the point of the fresh start that 8th edition provided...

Yes? Adeptus Mechanicus is a major faction

Dont like it? Dont buy it, but doing ruin the rest of our excitement for the faction

I hope that this has full knight rules so I don't need the index at all and not just new knights

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Chaos Knights probably won't be in their own book given the model is no longer being sold (and the fact it's a single unit that doesn't fit with Daemons).

Chaos Knights made an appearance in the Index. I'm honestly surprised they didn't show up in CSM though.

I don't know if they'll get a book(doubtful) of their own, but I could see them maybe making an appearance via a Traitor Guard force if ever we get one.

I honestly think it would be easier to just do a single Imperial Knight book with traits, and allow them either Chaos or Imperium keywords.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
hopefully they get rid of those terrible protocals, or make them a ld test like in 30k, as right now they are excellent abilities for no downside.

Do you mean the ones for the Robots? Because they have downsides and require a test, which requires another model that takes an entire elite slot. So...

the ones that allow them to shoot twice require a test?

To change protocols, a Datasmith needs to be 3'' away at the end of the movement phase, and you have to roll a 2+ to successfully change the protocol.

 NivlacSupreme wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
Nice. New model possibility, aye. Maybe a new flyer? New type of knight? Perhaps a transport? Nah, it'll be a knight

It'll be nothing. I am expecting zero new models. Maybe MAYBE a new HQ, since the faction really needs more than two options.

If we get anything at all, I will be content. Would be nice to have the variety of other factions. A flyer and transport would be most welcome, I am just not holding my breath.

One if you don't play mars!

or low points. aint no space for cawl in a cult list below 50pp

 Formosa wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
hopefully they get rid of those terrible protocals, or make them a ld test like in 30k, as right now they are excellent abilities for no downside.

Do you mean the ones for the Robots? Because they have downsides and require a test, which requires another model that takes an entire elite slot. So...

the ones that allow them to shoot twice require a test?

You have to not only have a datasmith in the army, but he has to be within at least 3 inches to the bots at the end of the movement phase and roll a 2+

Yeah, I can not justify buying entire codex just for a few pages of Mechanicum Knight rules. I hope, those will get rolled into Knight codex as well, when it comes out.

HQ rebox is the best peeps can hope for on this one!

 Formosa wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
hopefully they get rid of those terrible protocals, or make them a ld test like in 30k, as right now they are excellent abilities for no downside.

Do you mean the ones for the Robots? Because they have downsides and require a test, which requires another model that takes an entire elite slot. So...

the ones that allow them to shoot twice require a test?

As others said, yes. A 2+ for a Datasmith. And that guy eats up an entire Elite slot and can't change wargear. He is useful though. But also, the Protocols don't kick in immediately. You have to wait until the next game turn. So going second is a death sentence for robots, as they go from 2+/4++ to 3+/5++, which is a significant different. Especially against the typical multi-damage weapons coming at them.

And the big downside to Protector Protocols (shoot twice) is that they can't move. At all. So lock them in combat and they need an entire turn to switch to another Protocol.

 Corrode wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
oooh, hope it brings some new cult models as it is desperatly needed, but moust of all some new HQ selections!

Having just 1 HQ is stupid.

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. This is very clearly a model-free release and the best we can hope for is an HQ for Skitarii using the unit leaders as a "conversion".

It's a single release rather than a dual one like GK/CSM so there's a chance of some models coming with.

I do hope so, it'd be nice to see a Skitarii HQ, maybe another type of Robot, or even if we're stepping into the parallel best timeline plastic bloody servitors. Wouldn't say no to more Techpriests of some description either. I doubt it though, it'll probably be Cawl and whatever Death Guard units are leftover from their Codex launch week.

beast_gts wrote:

Messiah wrote:
It's been known for some time that AM was after Death Guard. Good to see confirmation!

Yes, but people were claiming that AM stood for Astra Militarum, not AdMech.

Well, that's just odd, surely the other one would be "IG"

Did Grey Knights get any new minis? If so I might have missed them. I'm kinda expecting this codex to just be the previous 2 smushed together, but no new models.. but ya never know.

 Necros wrote:
Did Grey Knights get any new minis? If so I might have missed them. I'm kinda expecting this codex to just be the previous 2 smushed together, but no new models.. but ya never know.

Grandmaster Voldus was removed from the Triumvirate of the Primarch box and is now available solo. That's about all.

warboss wrote:Glad to see that yet another deplorable habit of 6th/7th edition, the concept of MSU (minimum sellable unit) codex books, seems to be going away.

HAHA! I like that... Minimum Sellable Unit.

I'm super pumped about this codex release. Though I haven't had time to finish painting my Primaris Space Marines. Things need to slow down... Go back to only 1 or 2 releases a month. This multiple releases every week schedule is exhausting.

 Necros wrote:
Did Grey Knights get any new minis? If so I might have missed them. I'm kinda expecting this codex to just be the previous 2 smushed together, but no new models.. but ya never know.

It's the downside of rushing out 10 books in 6 months. Most will just be books with no releases. Hopefully whoever is hiding towards the end of the Chosen 10 will get something, not just Tall Marines and Stinky Marines.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
Does 14 units including Cawl (plus whatever they intend on doing for Knights) really justify the need for a whole codex? I'm starting to jump onto the whole admech hype train, but I don't need a $60 book just for that. Especially if I want to run a variety of Imperial forces. At this rate, I'd have to carry 6 (hardback... seriously, GW?) codices around just to play my Imperial army.

I'm thinking GW kind of missed the point of the fresh start that 8th edition provided...

Yes? Adeptus Mechanicus is a major faction

Dont like it? Dont buy it, but doing ruin the rest of our excitement for the faction

Admech is a major faction in the fluff. But in the fluff, Tau are an entirely pointless backwater science project, the Ecclesiarchy is bigger and further reaching than the Space Marines could ever hope to be, and most important battles are fought in space. In terms of actual game representation, Admech are pretty much in the same place as Genestealer cults. A tiny fanservice faction that was put in as a small release to please a vocal minority, and the new codex is going to do nothing to change that. There won't be any new units, or revelatory developments (you might get some stuff about Cawl, but his entire character is all about being un-Admech like). Most of the unit entries will likely be cut/pasted straight from the index, leaving you to pay $60 for two pages of forgeworld rules and fluff sections that have only been getting more disappointing with each release.

If GW was going to give the Admech a proper development with the new codex, which they aren't, then that might justify the cost and the physical space required. But as it stands, we're going to get some low-effort scraps instead in order to service GW's fetish for saddling players with as many books as they possibly can.

 Fafnir wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
Does 14 units including Cawl (plus whatever they intend on doing for Knights) really justify the need for a whole codex? I'm starting to jump onto the whole admech hype train, but I don't need a $60 book just for that. Especially if I want to run a variety of Imperial forces. At this rate, I'd have to carry 6 (hardback... seriously, GW?) codices around just to play my Imperial army.

I'm thinking GW kind of missed the point of the fresh start that 8th edition provided...

Yes? Adeptus Mechanicus is a major faction

Dont like it? Dont buy it, but doing ruin the rest of our excitement for the faction

Admech is a major faction in the fluff. But in the fluff, Tau are an entirely pointless backwater science project, the Ecclesiarchy is bigger and further reaching than the Space Marines could ever hope to be, and most important battles are fought in space. In terms of actual game representation, Admech are pretty much in the same place as Genestealer cults. A tiny fanservice faction that was put in as a small release to please a vocal minority, and the new codex is going to do nothing to change that. There won't be any new units, or revelatory developments (you might get some stuff about Cawl, but his entire character is all about being un-Admech like). Most of the unit entries will likely be cut/pasted straight from the index, leaving you to pay $60 for two pages of forgeworld rules and fluff sections that have only been getting more disappointing with each release.

If GW was going to give the Admech a proper development with the new codex, which they aren't, then that might justify the cost and the physical space required. But as it stands, we're going to get some low-effort scraps instead in order to service GW's fetish for saddling players with as many books as they possibly can.

 Necros wrote:
Did Grey Knights get any new minis? If so I might have missed them. I'm kinda expecting this codex to just be the previous 2 smushed together, but no new models.. but ya never know.

They got Voldus released separately. But they also got "new" units with the Dreadknight HQ option and access to the Storm talon/hawk. Its certainly possible that GW could do something similar with the AM. Solo release for Cawl, new options for existing models(Skitarii or Knight HQ, double gat cannons on Knights) and possibly raiding other armies for new units(AM Landraider?). But this codex is in a way combining three older books into one so I wouldn't rule out a proper new unit/model release.

 theharrower wrote:

Messiah wrote:
Huh, strange, considering GW mentioned Admech as one of the first on the Community page a long time ago: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/your-codex-is-coming-july-5gw-homepage-post-1/

Where does it say that?

Codex: Space Marines will be swiftly followed by the Grey Knights and Chaos Space Marines with Death Guard not far behind. (Yeah, you read that right – the sons of Mortarion are getting their own codex.)

Unless you are referring to this bit, which was just giving examples on unit rules and wasn't saying when the Codex would drop:

For you gamers out there, one very exciting addition are new rules representing specific sub-groups in many of the major factions; these range from old classics like the Space Marine Chapters or Chaos Space Marine Legions to returning rules for individual craftworlds, as well as previously unexplored groupings like Necron dynasties and Adeptus Mechanicus forge worlds. These will be included in each codex.

It's kind of obvious they are talking about the next batch of codices, don't you think? I would expect Craftworld and Necron codices are also done and next in the release order together with the rumoured Thousand Son Codex. That makes 8 of 10 to be released this year.

AdMech could use some kind of a transport. Either new one, or maybe the trusty Chimera or Rhino/Razorback, equiped with some AdMech typical weaponry.
Or at least better M characteristics to make them bit faster.

In case no new units will be added, FW can always include some 30k units in "Imperial Armour" books, like Triaros Conveyor as dedicated transport, or the Thallax as some elite/heavy support unit.

Messiah wrote:
It's kind of obvious they are talking about the next batch of codices, don't you think?

No. I think they just randomly chose a few codices to use as an example.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
hopefully they get rid of those terrible protocals, or make them a ld test like in 30k, as right now they are excellent abilities for no downside.

Do you mean the ones for the Robots? Because they have downsides and require a test, which requires another model that takes an entire elite slot. So...

the ones that allow them to shoot twice require a test?

As others said, yes. A 2+ for a Datasmith. And that guy eats up an entire Elite slot and can't change wargear. He is useful though. But also, the Protocols don't kick in immediately. You have to wait until the next game turn. So going second is a death sentence for robots, as they go from 2+/4++ to 3+/5++, which is a significant different. Especially against the typical multi-damage weapons coming at them.

And the big downside to Protector Protocols (shoot twice) is that they can't move. At all. So lock them in combat and they need an entire turn to switch to another Protocol.

then i need to apologise, because i was cheated, i was told, that the skill kicks in imediatly and the skills can be chosen freely and no roll is required

I just want to use my 30k Mechanicum models for 40k as well. Will probably need to wait for Fires of Cyraxus for that though, I highly doubt anything will be in this codex.

I for one look forward to not needing three sodding books to play my army, and not having to bend my old, decrepit melon round how allies work.

I also look forward to being able to back up Skitarii with my Kastellan maniples (yeah. Plural).

Also stoked about getting rules to reflect different origin Forgeworlds. I just hope Ryza doesn't get easy ways round Plasma, because despite loving me some Plasma (and I do. Loves it I do. LOVES IT), that would risk making other Forgeworlds largely defunct, on account Adeptus Mechanicus armies can field filthy amounts of Plasma.

 Formosa wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
hopefully they get rid of those terrible protocals, or make them a ld test like in 30k, as right now they are excellent abilities for no downside.

Do you mean the ones for the Robots? Because they have downsides and require a test, which requires another model that takes an entire elite slot. So...

the ones that allow them to shoot twice require a test?

As others said, yes. A 2+ for a Datasmith. And that guy eats up an entire Elite slot and can't change wargear. He is useful though. But also, the Protocols don't kick in immediately. You have to wait until the next game turn. So going second is a death sentence for robots, as they go from 2+/4++ to 3+/5++, which is a significant different. Especially against the typical multi-damage weapons coming at them.

And the big downside to Protector Protocols (shoot twice) is that they can't move. At all. So lock them in combat and they need an entire turn to switch to another Protocol.

then i need to apologise, because i was cheated, i was told, that the skill kicks in imediatly and the skills can be chosen freely and no roll is required

You should definitely bring this to the other player's attention. They are not playing correctly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I for one look forward to not needing three sodding books to play my army, and not having to bend my old, decrepit melon round how allies work.

I also look forward to being able to back up Skitarii with my Kastellan maniples (yeah. Plural).

Also stoked about getting rules to reflect different origin Forgeworlds. I just hope Ryza doesn't get easy ways round Plasma, because despite loving me some Plasma (and I do. Loves it I do. LOVES IT), that would risk making other Forgeworlds largely defunct, on account Adeptus Mechanicus armies can field filthy amounts of Plasma.

None of the units currently that can bring plasma are worth a crap though! So unless they drop the Kataphron and Vanguard points down a bunch, Ryza won't get much love even if it does help Plasma.

Really, really hoping Metalica doesn't get the shaft after spending the last six grueling weeks painting my 2k list.

Yeah, but bobbins or not pumping out Plasma like they're armed with Supersoakers is funny.