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SilverAlien wrote:
Also guys, let's be real for a second. If you want to be competitive you will still take a heavy support detachment with Cawl and some onagers or maybe kastellans depending if CT effect them/what mars has. Because, unless it is changed, all Cawl needs to do is be on the field to allow the canticle adjustment. He doesn't need to be warlord, your entire army doesn't need to be mars, etc. Combine that with improved aura and he will remain a must take, unless we get a SM style option to upgrade a random magos to archmagos.

I know so many people have been saying they can't wait to it use him or have mars in their army, but chances are if you feel he is required now you will still feel he is required post codex. Just saying.

You are overstating the value of the Canticle usage. Getting cover is nice, but not the end-all-be-all. His re-roll bubble is far more valuable. Though he is still pretty overpriced all things considered.

I've found being able to get cover across my army half the time and the reroll easily worth his price, but that's just me. Not to mention I find his combat power quite useful when someone does deepstrike something near my onagers, as my rangers/vanguard aren't going to hold long at all.

SilverAlien wrote:
I've found being able to get cover across my army half the time and the reroll easily worth his price, but that's just me. Not to mention I find his combat power quite useful when someone does deepstrike something near my onagers, as my rangers/vanguard aren't going to hold long at all.

I don't even run Skitarii anymore. They are awful. If anyone deep strikes near me, they are deep striking out beyond my Dragoons that screen. Those are harder to shift.

can anyone tell me what the point of dragoons is? i've looked at them and i can't really see any value there, not for the price they're asking. much much much rather have the mediocre balistarii


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Like for 70 points you need more than just 3 attacks for a CC unit without AP. i mean it's D2 Str 8 .... whopty doo basil... oh it gets more attacks on a hit roll of 6+. Whoopty doo basil good luck on those 6s

if it were up to me i'd drop the balistarii and Dragoons to like 35-50 point range down to 3 wounds and given them better weapon options

as they are however they're almost the cost of a kastelan and they don't hit that much harder in CC, harder yes, but enough to warrent being the same cost when each kastelan is putting out 9-18 str 6 ap -2 shots a turn?

gendoikari87 wrote:
can anyone tell me what the point of dragoons is? i've looked at them and i can't really see any value there, not for the price they're asking. much much much rather have the mediocre balistarii


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Like for 70 points you need more than just 3 attacks for a CC unit without AP. i mean it's D2 Str 8 .... whopty doo basil... oh it gets more attacks on a hit roll of 6+. Whoopty doo basil good luck on those 6s

if it were up to me i'd drop the balistarii and Dragoons to like 35-50 point range down to 3 wounds and given them better weapon options

as they are however they're almost the cost of a kastelan and they don't hit that much harder in CC, harder yes, but enough to warrent being the same cost when each kastelan is putting out 9-18 str 6 ap -2 shots a turn?

Go over to the Tactica. I wouldn't want them to change at all. T6 6W with a -1 to-hit and usually in cover (Shroudpsalm). They are just an ideal screening unit. Most folks are running 2x2 of them in their Spearhead to keep back assaults and deep strikes. They aren't competing with Kastelans, so that doesn't really factor in. They are really competing with Blandguard, which they outshine entirely.

Ballistarii are just another gun in an army with better options. Those compete for points with our shooting and fall short.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
I expect Metalica will get a Fulgurite Priest related one - akin to that useless Canticle. Making my whole army forced to continue using Mars if I want it to not suck.

Ride the Lightning?

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
I expect Metalica will get a Fulgurite Priest related one - akin to that useless Canticle. Making my whole army forced to continue using Mars if I want it to not suck.

Ride the Lightning?

Yes sir. We are hardwired to self-destruct.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
can anyone tell me what the point of dragoons is? i've looked at them and i can't really see any value there, not for the price they're asking. much much much rather have the mediocre balistarii


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Like for 70 points you need more than just 3 attacks for a CC unit without AP. i mean it's D2 Str 8 .... whopty doo basil... oh it gets more attacks on a hit roll of 6+. Whoopty doo basil good luck on those 6s

if it were up to me i'd drop the balistarii and Dragoons to like 35-50 point range down to 3 wounds and given them better weapon options

as they are however they're almost the cost of a kastelan and they don't hit that much harder in CC, harder yes, but enough to warrent being the same cost when each kastelan is putting out 9-18 str 6 ap -2 shots a turn?

Go over to the Tactica. I wouldn't want them to change at all. T6 6W with a -1 to-hit and usually in cover (Shroudpsalm). They are just an ideal screening unit. Most folks are running 2x2 of them in their Spearhead to keep back assaults and deep strikes. They aren't competing with Kastelans, so that doesn't really factor in. They are really competing with Blandguard, which they outshine entirely.

Ballistarii are just another gun in an army with better options. Those compete for points with our shooting and fall short.

JFC people then just get more kastelans and screen with those. it's not that much more expensive you get shroudsalm all the damn time and in CC (because it just has a higher Armor save), you can throw fists on the things that makes them CC monsters, they're higher toughness and if you keep them in aegis is's a T7-6W SV 2+ road block and you have a unit of two.... oh and it has a 12" range incendine combustor. it just beats the syndonian in every way possible. It's 30 points more than a syndonian though wooooooo so much. at least it's not useless half the game and can serve as more than just a road block


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like for four syndonians you can get a small patrol of IG to screen for you and have a lot of wounds

gendoikari87 wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
can anyone tell me what the point of dragoons is? i've looked at them and i can't really see any value there, not for the price they're asking. much much much rather have the mediocre balistarii


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Like for 70 points you need more than just 3 attacks for a CC unit without AP. i mean it's D2 Str 8 .... whopty doo basil... oh it gets more attacks on a hit roll of 6+. Whoopty doo basil good luck on those 6s

if it were up to me i'd drop the balistarii and Dragoons to like 35-50 point range down to 3 wounds and given them better weapon options

as they are however they're almost the cost of a kastelan and they don't hit that much harder in CC, harder yes, but enough to warrent being the same cost when each kastelan is putting out 9-18 str 6 ap -2 shots a turn?

Go over to the Tactica. I wouldn't want them to change at all. T6 6W with a -1 to-hit and usually in cover (Shroudpsalm). They are just an ideal screening unit. Most folks are running 2x2 of them in their Spearhead to keep back assaults and deep strikes. They aren't competing with Kastelans, so that doesn't really factor in. They are really competing with Blandguard, which they outshine entirely.

Ballistarii are just another gun in an army with better options. Those compete for points with our shooting and fall short.

JFC people then just get more kastelans and screen with those. it's not that much more expensive you get shroudsalm all the damn time and in CC (because it just has a higher Armor save), you can throw fists on the things that makes them CC monsters, they're higher toughness and if you keep them in aegis is's a T7-6W SV 2+ road block and you have a unit of two.... oh and it has a 12" range incendine combustor. it just beats the syndonian in every way possible. It's 30 points more than a syndonian though wooooooo so much. at least it's not useless half the game and can serve as more than just a road block


Automatically Appended Next Post:
like for four syndonians you can get a small patrol of IG to screen for you and have a lot of wounds

Some folks aren't interested in going outside the faction. You want Imperial Soup, go for it. But don't trash Dragoons if you don't know what they are being used for. And Kastelans are not better, because they aren't as mobile. Being able to zip them over to objectives is very important.

Kastelans absolutely do not beat the Dragoon for what it does. Plus, it is a a big point different - I can get almost two Dragoons for one Robot. And they are filling vastly different roles.

Do you play AdMech? At all? Because it doesn't sound like you do.

What do we know so far about being able to field armor?

gendoikari87 wrote:
i never use cawl, for the cost of going from TPD to cawl, you can get an onager. that's just insane, cawl is there for fluff reasons only IMO or if you are using a really large army

lol

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
can anyone tell me what the point of dragoons is? i've looked at them and i can't really see any value there, not for the price they're asking. much much much rather have the mediocre balistarii


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Like for 70 points you need more than just 3 attacks for a CC unit without AP. i mean it's D2 Str 8 .... whopty doo basil... oh it gets more attacks on a hit roll of 6+. Whoopty doo basil good luck on those 6s

if it were up to me i'd drop the balistarii and Dragoons to like 35-50 point range down to 3 wounds and given them better weapon options

as they are however they're almost the cost of a kastelan and they don't hit that much harder in CC, harder yes, but enough to warrent being the same cost when each kastelan is putting out 9-18 str 6 ap -2 shots a turn?

Go over to the Tactica. I wouldn't want them to change at all. T6 6W with a -1 to-hit and usually in cover (Shroudpsalm). They are just an ideal screening unit. Most folks are running 2x2 of them in their Spearhead to keep back assaults and deep strikes. They aren't competing with Kastelans, so that doesn't really factor in. They are really competing with Blandguard, which they outshine entirely.

Ballistarii are just another gun in an army with better options. Those compete for points with our shooting and fall short.

JFC people then just get more kastelans and screen with those. it's not that much more expensive you get shroudsalm all the damn time and in CC (because it just has a higher Armor save), you can throw fists on the things that makes them CC monsters, they're higher toughness and if you keep them in aegis is's a T7-6W SV 2+ road block and you have a unit of two.... oh and it has a 12" range incendine combustor. it just beats the syndonian in every way possible. It's 30 points more than a syndonian though wooooooo so much. at least it's not useless half the game and can serve as more than just a road block


Automatically Appended Next Post:
like for four syndonians you can get a small patrol of IG to screen for you and have a lot of wounds

Some folks aren't interested in going outside the faction. You want Imperial Soup, go for it. But don't trash Dragoons if you don't know what they are being used for. And Kastelans are not better, because they aren't as mobile. Being able to zip them over to objectives is very important.

Kastelans absolutely do not beat the Dragoon for what it does. Plus, it is a a big point different - I can get almost two Dragoons for one Robot. And they are filling vastly different roles.

Do you play AdMech? At all? Because it doesn't sound like you do.

Gretchen i've been playing mechanicus since 5th edition when i had to convert guard into tech guard. and then sixth we we used the acolytes from the grey knights book.

And if 4" of movement is that important you NEED to learn how and where to place objectives.

P.S. here's the proof too, old admech secutors made using the grey knights rules.

I've bled oil since before most of you joined the game. YOU merely adapted to the admech, I was born to it, moulded by it, i didn't know a true admech codex until i was on my third army

Holy crap, it's getting deep in here.

On topic, though, I don't think they'll do things as simply as "Ryza gets plasma bonuses" because that doesn't fit the precedent from the codices that we already have.

I think it's more likely that we'll see bonuses that focus on other aspects of the various forge worlds than what gear they're known for, such as Ryza's desperation during their war against the invading orks had them delving into a lot of old tech... Perhaps they found and use ancient ballistic algorithms that benefit shooting, and can reroll a single miss and/or wound roll per eligible unit each turn (sort of similar to the Salamanders).

I think it's more likely to be bonuses like that, than the older mold of "x weapon gets x benefit" which is not applicable to as much of the army.

gendoikari87 wrote:
P.S. here's the proof too, old admech secutors made using the grey knights rules.

I've bled oil since before most of you joined the game. YOU merely adapted to the admech, I was born to it, moulded by it, i didn't know a true admech codex until i was on my third army

Cute. But you might want to brush up on actually playing AdMech in 8th, because you sound like you have no idea how. Just sayin'.

gendoikari87 wrote:
P.S. here's the proof too, old admech secutors made using the grey knights rules.

I've bled oil since before most of you joined the game. YOU merely adapted to the admech, I was born to it, moulded by it, i didn't know a true admech codex until i was on my third army

Irrelevant. The way your "counts as" admech worked in 5th has no relation to the current state of the army.

Can we please keep the "play this unit or your an idiot" confined to the Army List and Tactics forums, this is the News & Rumours forum

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
P.S. here's the proof too, old admech secutors made using the grey knights rules.

I've bled oil since before most of you joined the game. YOU merely adapted to the admech, I was born to it, moulded by it, i didn't know a true admech codex until i was on my third army

Cute. But you might want to brush up on actually playing AdMech in 8th, because you sound like you have no idea how. Just sayin'.

seeing as i literally just got done tabling a ravenwing player by turn 4. I think that's just like your opinion man


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rolsheen wrote:
Can we please keep the "play this unit or your an idiot" confined to the Army List and Tactics forums, this is the News & Rumours forum

I'll make a side thread later so we can move that discussion there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here you go: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/738947.page#9594245

 Rolsheen wrote:
Can we please keep the "play this unit or your an idiot" confined to the Army List and Tactics forums, this is the News & Rumours forum

Indeed.

Thank you.

shade1313 wrote:
Holy crap, it's getting deep in here.

On topic, though, I don't think they'll do things as simply as "Ryza gets plasma bonuses" because that doesn't fit the precedent from the codices that we already have.

I think it's more likely that we'll see bonuses that focus on other aspects of the various forge worlds than what gear they're known for, such as Ryza's desperation during their war against the invading orks had them delving into a lot of old tech... Perhaps they found and use ancient ballistic algorithms that benefit shooting, and can reroll a single miss and/or wound roll per eligible unit each turn (sort of similar to the Salamanders).

I think it's more likely to be bonuses like that, than the older mold of "x weapon gets x benefit" which is not applicable to as much of the army.

I think your probably on the right track, as long as they can make so that I can get the re-rolls of hits from another HQ, perferably a cheaper than Cawl one, then I think I will be happy for the most part and if they allow us to upgrade a Skitarii to a HQ, maybe you customise the model like the grey Knights dreadnaught HQ they recently did. using that they could make Onagers transports by just saying use it with out the primary weapons and there you go now it has space for troop carrying not sure where the doors would go but eh the admech can work that out, I guess there is a top hatch so not an assault vechiles thats for sure

are the other forgeworlds not going to get special characters? that would kind of be odd to do "chapters" and not give them each a special character. each of the marine chapters has someone.

Iron Hands do not.

There wont be any new models in this release other than Cawl as a seperate thing.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Iron Hands do not.

There wont be any new models in this release other than Cawl as a seperate thing.

oh your right they don't... they really need one... also the iron hands are the chapter with the most connections to the mech. i'm starting to get a sense here that GW doesn't like us.

Have we any more significant leaks than those seen in the white dwarf which even had the dates wrong for the collectors edition

I would expect the first GW info drop today on the community website.

Gotta start ramping up the enthusiasm of the customer base for its codex pre-order next week

Like I mentioned when I posted the WD photos, this is a September 16th preorder, the LE Codex date being a typo. It would not be surprising if we will see the first reviews of the book next Saturday. And because of the NDA in place most likely not before that except GW's previews which should start today or on Monday.

There we go: Warhammer Community just confirmed the codex goes on preorder next week, along with the Deathshroud Termies.

Yup, confirmed GW wants to keep mechanicus as half an army. Like why the feth even bother trying to release it with no new units. I get not having them ready at the word go, but dude wait till you get new units ready to release it so you can make some more money off the release? like seriously.

gendoikari87 wrote:
Yup, confirmed GW wants to keep mechanicus as half an army.

We don't know what new Datasheet or two might be present. Any bitter assumptions right now are just that, assumptions.

They stated the releases for next week. That is all.

gendoikari87 wrote:
Yup, confirmed GW wants to keep mechanicus as half an army. Like why the feth even bother trying to release it with no new units. I get not having them ready at the word go, but dude wait till you get new units ready to release it so you can make some more money off the release? like seriously.

Yeah, I feel like this'll be a bit of a slightly uncomfortable sale. There'll be a few uhms and aahs and various other sighs over the counter.
But we're getting it super quick after Death Guard, which is awesome.

Would've been nice to see something like a Volkite vehicle upgrade kit; something along those lines at least. A Land Raider with chieroviles? Yes please.