Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Pre-orders up on NZ site.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

You don't half pick 'em. Vyronii. Metalica. What next?

Knight of the Cog bundle gives away what one of the stratagems roughly does.

Hope we get the video reviews tonight but not holding my breath.

 Crimson wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
Rumor is -1 to hit beyond 12" for stygies.

*sigh* I really hope they'd stop using this. That rule should have never existed, it is broken beyond reason and affects certain armies disproportionately.

It's broken in very specific situations. Mostly it and several other traits are just terrible rule design. They matter if and only if the opponent makes specific decisions during army building. What the controlling player does is largely irrelevant, reducing their decision making, and making the game more about gimmicks and less about tactics.

changemod wrote:
Knight of the Cog bundle

What?

 ph34r wrote:

changemod wrote:
Knight of the Cog bundle

What?

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Knight-Of-The-Cog-2017

 Ghaz wrote:

 ph34r wrote:

changemod wrote:
Knight of the Cog bundle

What?

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Knight-Of-The-Cog-2017

feth those prices

gendoikari87 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 ph34r wrote:

changemod wrote:
Knight of the Cog bundle

What?

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Knight-Of-The-Cog-2017

feth those prices

Don't move to New Zealand I guess.

Giving Knights Canticles seems really good.

So they won't have them by default I suppose. Rerolling ones and having cover at least would be nice, though I was hoping they would benefit from Cawls refills by default.

It describes it as a Stratagem so I guess they don't get it all game just for the phase? or maybe you do it during deployment and need to keet the TPD and knight near each other.

Otherwise I would only really use it when I'm getting Shroudpalsm

changemod wrote:

This review was awful and I hope this guy never gets another review copy.

It basically boiled down to "Waaah, Knights didn't get Canticles. Waaah, I like 30k Mechanicum better than what GW has done."

 Kanluwen wrote:

changemod wrote:

This review was awful and I hope this guy never gets another review copy.

It basically boiled down to "Waaah, Knights didn't get Canticles. Waaah, I like 30k Mechanicum better than what GW has done."

I read it more as "This codex doesn't adress most of the problems the index list had and has terrible internal balance between subfactions".

Completely solid review honestly, and he's right: The Mechanicum red book was a good codex.

Whelp, there's however many dollars the codex costs saved. I will get by with the Mars tactics and the Index.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Whelp, there's however many dollars the codex costs saved. I will get by with the Mars tactics and the Index.

Well, you can run them as Raven Guard if you aren't inclined to go Cawl. I'll have to see the relics page in more detail to see if there's anything that makes Enginseers have more of a battlefield role than Dunecrawler healbot, but I can see that in a few years when we get Fires of Cyraxus things should improve with units plugging key roles that are currently missing.

Well I'm glad that the Stygies stuff, other than the warlord trait, is decent enough, being able to set up a unit of Flamer kastelans 9" away from a unit using the ambush stratagem and flame/charge might be an interesting opening attack and I need to check my styrix datasheet in the forgeworld index to see if it can benefit from the stratagems too.

changemod wrote:

I read it more as "This codex doesn't adress most of the problems the index list had and has terrible internal balance between subfactions".

Completely solid review honestly, and he's right: The Mechanicum red book was a good codex.

It's not a "review". It's a whinefest.

And let's face facts here, the Mechanicum red book isn't exactly good. 30k is just boring enough that it seems good.

 Kanluwen wrote:

changemod wrote:

I read it more as "This codex doesn't adress most of the problems the index list had and has terrible internal balance between subfactions".

Completely solid review honestly, and he's right: The Mechanicum red book was a good codex.

It's not a "review". It's a whinefest.

And let's face facts here, the Mechanicum red book isn't exactly good. 30k is just boring enough that it seems good.

Whinefest? Admech is a gutted faction with mostly overpriced stuff and no new models that now... stays overpriced and gets few good rules. That is not whining, it is just fact.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

changemod wrote:

I read it more as "This codex doesn't adress most of the problems the index list had and has terrible internal balance between subfactions".

Completely solid review honestly, and he's right: The Mechanicum red book was a good codex.

It's not a "review". It's a whinefest.

And let's face facts here, the Mechanicum red book isn't exactly good. 30k is just boring enough that it seems good.

Whinefest? Admech is a gutted faction with mostly overpriced stuff and no new models that now... stays overpriced and gets few good rules. That is not whining, it is just fact.

Sorry, you don't get to have it both ways.

Are they a gutted faction or "the way they're meant to be played" now?
Skitarii are a "gutted faction". We lost the ability to be fielded as a pure army and instead got rolled into a book with the crazed religious nutter side of things.

The AdMech Codex is the result of GW listening to those people whining they wanted a combined book.

It seems pretty clear that basically 0 effort went into this book. I don't really consider that a whine; I don't think anyone had much reason to expect effort. The GK codex is similar and the Chaos codex isn't far behind. Clearly these were basically done when 8th released and the indices were just the WIP codices minus some special rules. They had time to respond to some of how people took the index rules, in that they did some very minor point and rule adjustments, but they seem to have cautious here, either because they didn't have time for playtesting or because they figure some of the special rules change things up enough that the original cost is right.

It is certainly very hard to believe that Cawl with robots and stratagems was actually play-tested.

Oh my god Kanluwen, keep beating that dead horse and saying those alternate facts.
No, not everything bad that happens to Adeptus Mechanicus is because GW listenned to "whinners" and they merged them with Skitarii. Even if you have a point, going back again and again to that absurd argument just makes you lose all credibility. You wanted Skitarii to be their own faction, we get it.

And yet we had people whining about:
Cult Mechanicus couldn't stand on its own and needed Skitarii since Kataphron were "bad" and "expensive". Knights should have been AdMech instead of their own thing.
All of them should have been in one book.

Show me where the "alternative facts" are when they literally did exactly what the tournament crowd whined for?

People wanted them merged in the same book because keeping them separated was like the Tempestus Scions codex with Imperial Guard, just absurd. To say that people just wanted them merged because Skitarii units where better just isn't true. (Maybe true to some tournament players as you said, but 90% of the people that wanted them merged didn't gived any f*cks to the powers ot the components of the Adeptus Mechanicus)

That has nothing to do with the internal or external imbalances in the codex that they appear to have now.

 Galas wrote:
People wanted them merged in the same book because keeping them separated is like separating Deathwing from Ravenwing in their own codexs.

That has nothing to do with the internal or external imbalances in the codex.

Not really. Skitarii are/were effectively their own organization, just like the Scions were.

You not wanting that to be true does not change reality.

 Kanluwen wrote:
And yet we had people whining about:
Cult Mechanicus couldn't stand on its own and needed Skitarii since Kataphron were "bad" and "expensive". Knights should have been AdMech instead of their own thing.
All of them should have been in one book.

Show me where the "alternative facts" are when they literally did exactly what the tournament crowd whined for?

Being combined has zero relevance to any points I and others brought up.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Galas wrote:
People wanted them merged in the same book because keeping them separated is like separating Deathwing from Ravenwing in their own codexs.

That has nothing to do with the internal or external imbalances in the codex.

Not really. Skitarii are/were effectively their own organization, just like the Scions were.

You not wanting that to be true does not change reality.

A poor justification made just to keep them in separated books, that existed for 1 edition, when in reality Tempestus Scions are just stoormtroopers like Karskin. But I'll leave this here, lets agree to disagree.

Skitarii blatantly only had their own book because GW was testing the waters and it made more sense to release a smaller amount of units first rather than everything at once.

Kanluwen, no matter how many times you say "Skitarii are bad because the books got merged!!!" it will not become more true.

They could include Doctrina Imperatives in the combined book. They didn't, because they are lazy and put no effort into this book.

All the individual units' balances being gak:
Kataphron Destroyers
Kataphron Breachers
Rangers (compared to vanguard)
Vanguard (compared to Imperial Guard)
Ballistarii
The bad electropriests (alternately: both types)
Phosphor blaster Onagers
Eradication Array Onagers
Tech Priest Dominus
Rust Stalkers


All of these units being individually Garbage are not "because they combined the books!!!!!!!" It's because they cost too much and don't do enough.

Ok, seriously. Who else wanted Skitarii to stay separate and have to buy 2 books apart from that one guy.

Anyone?

Hello?

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Ok, seriously. Who else wanted Skitarii to stay separate and have to buy 2 books apart from that one guy.

Anyone?

Hello?

lol agreed. I would have killed for a combined dex in 7th and very happy to have a combined one now.

in terms of the new dex though i'm sad my lists won't look too different from the index. Traits and strategems are nice but no point changes doesn't change much in the list building department. If I run crawl then obviously mars and otherwise lucius with a domnius leading a spearhead detachment.

While I think there isn't a ton good in the codex, I do think we got a few needed changes and a few borderline broken things.

I really do not think people realize how good the Stygies is. Getting that -1 to incoming fire on every unit is huge and so much better for us than the SM/CSM version which only benefits select units. Onagers and kastellans are more resistant to incoming fire which is great, and dragoons become borderline impossible to hit for many armies. Melee dragoons screening onagers got very viable. Combined with the infiltration stratagem for getting priests closer early on, we've got a much better army than what we had originally.

So yeah, this fixed just enough to make our army more viable imo.

 ph34r wrote:
Skitarii blatantly only had their own book because GW was testing the waters and it made more sense to release a smaller amount of units first rather than everything at once.

Kanluwen, no matter how many times you say "Skitarii are bad because the books got merged!!!" it will not become more true.

They could include Doctrina Imperatives in the combined book. They didn't, because they are lazy and put no effort into this book.

All of these units being individually Garbage are not "because they combined the books!!!!!!!" It's because they cost too much and don't do enough.

You're attempting to argue against something I've not said. My whole argument has been that this book is bad because it no longer allows for Skitarii to be fielded as an army in and of itself.

It's also been, to a rather unspoken angle, that tournament players are cancer when it comes to the AdMech and that GW listened to the whiners who love to try to play up the "fluff" for their War Convocations when in reality they just were chasing the meta.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Ok, seriously. Who else wanted Skitarii to stay separate and have to buy 2 books apart from that one guy.

Anyone?

Hello?

You do understand that the point of a separate army is that you didn't have to buy two books?

Right?

That's like arguing that you shouldn't have had to buy the Knight codex because you had the Space Marines book. They were separate armies.